External-bearing BBs?

Chalo

Andre Jute wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> > first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> > don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> > affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> > people a whole lot of trouble and cut the bastard up before disposing
> > of it.
>
> A good French bike with the best French parts will have plenty of time
> to ingratiate itself. My old Peugeot mountain bike, from the top of
> their range in the late 80s, early 90s,

If I understand correctly, Peugeots had gotten with the program by the
time MTBs were the dominant bikes on the scene. If that's true, then
there is nothing wrong with a Peugeot MTB versus another sort of MTB
from the same time period. Same with Raleighs; they gave up using
proprietary thread standards by sometime in the '80s, and after that
their main problems were aesthetic.

French origin is never a problem per se; it's the French thread system
that French manufacturers insisted on using long after it constituted
a disservice to themselves and their customers. All the "wonderful"
French road bikes of the bike boom years were thus afflicted. And if
some misguided parts manufacturer had seen fit to make French-threaded
parts all this time, the French thread folly would have been nothing
more than a source of confusion. That didn't happen, though. French-
threaded headsets, BBs, freewheel hubs, pedals, etc., are all
unavailable historical curiosities that render their respective bikes
practically unmaintainable-- $120 bearing cups for $400 cranks
notwithstanding.

The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
a reasonable cost.

Chalo

bfd

On May 13, 9:17*am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> a reasonable cost.
>
I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
US is pushing the 650B Bleriots and supplies all the needed wheel
goodies like tires, rims and complete wheels. Further, other
distributors are getting into the act.

Moreover, Kirk Pacenti is getting companies like Soma, Velo Orange,
and I believe Surly, into the new "27.5 mtb tire" movement.

For many of the "believers," 650b is the new black!

Chalo

bfd wrote:
>
> For many of the "believers," 650b is the new black!

Rivendell is the new Fwench!

Chalo

Andre Jute

On May 13, 5:17*pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> > Chalo wrote:
>
> > > Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. *At the
> > > first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. *Better yet,
> > > don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> > > affinity for an inadvisable machine. *Save yourself and several other
> > > people a whole lot of trouble and cut the bastard up before disposing
> > > of it.
>
> > A good French bike with the best French parts will have plenty of time
> > to ingratiate itself. My old Peugeot mountain bike, from the top of
> > their range in the late 80s, early 90s,
>
> If I understand correctly, Peugeots had gotten with the program by the
> time MTBs were the dominant bikes on the scene. *If that's true, then
> there is nothing wrong with a Peugeot MTB versus another sort of MTB
> from the same time period. *

That may or may not be so. The one I'm talking about had Sachs-Huret
components, and the first major difficulty arose when the oval
chainring couldn't be replaced. When the only available bottom bracket
was visibly a cheap piece of rubbish, and didn't last, I gave up on
it. Admittedly, in between the rear axle exploded and the sprocket set
just folded up, and the LBS was apologizing before he even showed me
replacement parts, "I know you'll call this names, Andre, but it's
what I can get." That's what made me conclude the threading was weird.
This was before I discovered Sheldon's site and read that there was,
just like in cars, more than one thread. It was the experience of that
Peugeot which interested me in bike mechanics, which led me to Sheldon
and eventually to my love of comfort bikes with internal gear hubs.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/...%20CYCLING.html

A Muzi

>> Chalo wrote:
>>> Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
>>> first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
>>> don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
>>> affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
>>> people a whole lot of trouble and cut the bastard up before disposing
>>> of it.

> Andre Jute wrote:
>> A good French bike with the best French parts will have plenty of time
>> to ingratiate itself. My old Peugeot mountain bike, from the top of
>> their range in the late 80s, early 90s,

Chalo wrote:
> If I understand correctly, Peugeots had gotten with the program by the
> time MTBs were the dominant bikes on the scene. If that's true, then
> there is nothing wrong with a Peugeot MTB versus another sort of MTB
> from the same time period. Same with Raleighs; they gave up using
> proprietary thread standards by sometime in the '80s, and after that
> their main problems were aesthetic.
>
> French origin is never a problem per se; it's the French thread system
> that French manufacturers insisted on using long after it constituted
> a disservice to themselves and their customers. All the "wonderful"
> French road bikes of the bike boom years were thus afflicted. And if
> some misguided parts manufacturer had seen fit to make French-threaded
> parts all this time, the French thread folly would have been nothing
> more than a source of confusion. That didn't happen, though. French-
> threaded headsets, BBs, freewheel hubs, pedals, etc., are all
> unavailable historical curiosities that render their respective bikes
> practically unmaintainable-- $120 bearing cups for $400 cranks
> notwithstanding.
>
> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> a reasonable cost.

Good summary.

Several European brands sold regular Asian bikes, rebadged, both road
and MTB models, in various years for the US market. Raleigh's
Nottingham bikes were 26tpi right to the bitter end. By that time
[1985], the US models built at Nottingham were down to pretty much only
Sports and DL-1 Roadsters[1], other bicycles being mostly Taiwan ROC by
then.

[1] Team Pro, Pro and Comp were built at the Carlton shop, not Nottingham
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Hank

On May 13, 1:11 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> > Chalo wrote:
>
> > > Hank wrote:
>
> > > > bfd wrote:
>
> > > > > Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate in
> > > > > external bearing bbs, check out the new Phil Wood:
>
> > > > >http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm
>
> > > > Holy spit, you can get 'em in French!
>
> > > Isn't that a bit like getting a saddle for an epileptic horse? Sooner
> > > or later there will be other issues.
>
> > As the old tale about delaying disaster goes, "maybe the horse will
> > sing!"
>
> > I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing down for a new BB for
> > an old frame.
>
> It's not oldness that is the source of the problem, it's Fwenchness.
> You can lay down a bundle for a BB, cranks, and pedals to make that
> smelly, leg-humping little dog learn a new trick or two, but the next
> thing you know it will want a headset, which will then make you find a
> new fork. Then it will be a seatpost in 23.7mm or whatever ungodly
> obsolete size, and then-- joy of joys-- the freewheel turns out to be
> Fwench (and worn out).
>
> Pretty soon you've spent a small fortune, more than enough to get a
> real bike. But it's still a peculiar, smelly, leg-humping little dog
> that probably has more bad surprises in store.
>
> Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> people a whole lot of trouble and cut the bastard up before disposing
> of it.
>
> Chalo

Oh, no argument there...95% of the value in my PX-10 (updated with a
full Campy Centaur group, aside from the PW BB) is sentimental, since
I've had the thing since I was 13 (I turn 35 next month). For so many
years, I built up in my head what a great bike it was, I was kind of
taken aback when I tried out bikes with, well, BETTER geometry than
the parallel 74s of my PX-10. I don't see myself ever getting rid of
it, but if something happened to it, I'd happily replace it with a
Mercian King of Mercia to fill my "lugged Reynolds classy European
bike with room for fenders & 28mm tires" slot.

Ryan Cousineau

In article
<3c702d11-6d01-4ddf-9c39-5a03341d70e0@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > Chalo wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank wrote:
> > > >
> > > > bfd wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate in
> > > > > external bearing bbs, check out the new Phil Wood:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm
> > > >
> > > > Holy spit, you can get 'em in French!
> > >
> > > Isn't that a bit like getting a saddle for an epileptic horse? Sooner
> > > or later there will be other issues.
> >
> > As the old tale about delaying disaster goes, "maybe the horse will
> > sing!"
> >
> > I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing down for a new BB for
> > an old frame.
>
> It's not oldness that is the source of the problem, it's Fwenchness.
> You can lay down a bundle for a BB, cranks, and pedals to make that
> smelly, leg-humping little dog learn a new trick or two, but the next
> thing you know it will want a headset, which will then make you find a
> new fork. Then it will be a seatpost in 23.7mm or whatever ungodly
> obsolete size, and then-- joy of joys-- the freewheel turns out to be
> Fwench (and worn out).

In fairness to France, the Internet has made it a lot easer. To sum up:
YST universal BB, $20. Headset: ISO 1". Fork: recycle off of whatever
similar-vintage non-French bike you can lay your hands on. Lather,
rinse, repeat.

> Pretty soon you've spent a small fortune, more than enough to get a
> real bike. But it's still a peculiar, smelly, leg-humping little dog
> that probably has more bad surprises in store.
>
> Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> people a whole lot of trouble and cut the bastard up before disposing
> of it.

Can't do that. I have already sold off a Peugeot, a Raleigh, and a
Motobecane (might have even had Swiss threads) in the last few weeks.
All the frames (along with an Ascente Prolite with triple-fade paint)
sold for cash and parts (new 165mm MTB cranks, woot!) which I will
either put on my bike, put in my pile, or turn into beer.

I turned French and English bikes into beer and MTB parts! You hear
that, Chalo? I am an alchemist of the awesome!

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ozark Bicycle

On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > a reasonable cost.
>
> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).

For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

bfd

On May 13, 8:17*pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > a reasonable cost.
>
> > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > size. *For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
>
> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>
> For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
wheel:

http://www.bikelugs.com/store/index.php?intCategoryID=3

This may be what is needed to make 650B mainstream! Stay tune....

Michael Press

In article
<679f0f6f-b3ca-4253-8c7d-639365f73bf6@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On May 13, 8:17*pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > > a reasonable cost.
> >
> > > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > > size. *For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
> >
> > Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> > appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> > joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> > folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> > and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> > that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
> >
> > For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)
>
> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> wheel:

I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
Bigger wheels really are better.

--
Michael Press

landotter

On May 14, 1:55 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <679f0f6f-b3ca-4253-8c7d-639365f73...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On May 13, 8:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
> > > > > looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
> > > > > the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
> > > > > their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
> > > > > a reasonable cost.
>
> > > > I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
> > > > size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
> > > > US is pushing the 650B Bleriots
>
> > > Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
> > > appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
> > > joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
> > > folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
> > > and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
> > > that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>
> > > For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)
>
> > I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
> > Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
> > 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
> > those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
> > Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
> > have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
> > Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
> > including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
> > wheel:
>
> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> Bigger wheels really are better.
>

See my slightly tongue in cheek "Paselagasm" thread. That's 32 on
622.--and you're right, it's better than just about anything. But
that's not the point. It's a Schick and Gillette sorta deal.

A Muzi

>>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
>>>>> looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
>>>>> the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
>>>>> their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
>>>>> a reasonable cost.

>>> bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
>>>> size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
>>>> US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

>> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>>> Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
>>> appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
>>> joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
>>> folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
>>> and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
>>> that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).
>>> For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

> bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
>> Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
>> 650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
>> those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
>> Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
>> have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
>> Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
>> including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
>> wheel:

Michael Press wrote:
> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> Bigger wheels really are better.

Huh. Our customer thought "650-B" was just an optional 'serving
suggestion' :

http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

bfd

On May 14, 11:55*am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
> for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
> for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
> as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
> Bigger wheels really are better.
>
> --
OK, with this logic, then the new upcoming Bombadil MTB should be alot
better than the current offering as its 584mm wheel, that can use
tires like the Pacenti Neo-Moto 650bx2.3, is bigger and should be
better than any 26" (559mm) mtb in existence!

Chalo

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
> > first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
> > don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
> > affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
> > people a whole lot of trouble and cut the bastard up before disposing
> > of it.
>
> Can't do that. I have already sold off a Peugeot, a Raleigh, and a
> Motobecane (might have even had Swiss threads) in the last few weeks.
> All the frames (along with an Ascente Prolite with triple-fade paint)
> sold for cash and parts (new 165mm MTB cranks, woot!) which I will
> either put on my bike, put in my pile, or turn into beer.
>
> I turned French and English bikes into beer and MTB parts! You hear
> that,Chalo? I am an alchemist of the awesome!

Rad!

Now if you can find an old Lambert and turn it into weed, then you
will have completed the Three Great Quests that qualify you as a
Venerable Wizard in the Fraternal Order of Single-Speed MTB Racers.

Chalo