Unwarranted Paselagasm: Now they get creepy

landotter

So I was quite pleased with the daily fixer's makeover a couple weeks
ago. Quite frankly--it's the most perfectly fun bike I've ever owned.
A tough fixed gear with new Nitto Rando bars that I can ride in the
drops all day and those lovely 32mm Paselas I got on a whim that just
seemed so silly wide when I inflated them, as I assumed they'd be
narrower--they turned out to be very interesting tires.

Never bothered buying gloves this spring. Don't need them with the fat
tires and cotton over old bar tape.

I'm faster than I ever was with 23mm tires, just flowing past the
crowd, like on a marshmallow track, in my comfy old timey flared
drops, grinning wide. Could be some of the local rough pavement. The
Paselas just eat it up like molten cheese over pepperoni, without a
fight. No skitter, just GO.

The rig gave me a surprise this evening when I climbed the hill up
from the treatment plant which is usually a fixed gear dismount
shoulder huffer, or on the "ute" it's deffo a granny +2, but I just
crept up it like I had some magical tire crampons.

The damn things alter gravity. Japan wins again.

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT), landotter
<landotter@gmail.com> wrote:

>So I was quite pleased with the daily fixer's makeover a couple weeks
>ago. Quite frankly--it's the most perfectly fun bike I've ever owned.
>A tough fixed gear with new Nitto Rando bars that I can ride in the
>drops all day and those lovely 32mm Paselas I got on a whim that just
>seemed so silly wide when I inflated them, as I assumed they'd be
>narrower--they turned out to be very interesting tires.
>
>Never bothered buying gloves this spring. Don't need them with the fat
>tires and cotton over old bar tape.
>
>I'm faster than I ever was with 23mm tires, just flowing past the
>crowd, like on a marshmallow track, in my comfy old timey flared
>drops, grinning wide. Could be some of the local rough pavement. The
>Paselas just eat it up like molten cheese over pepperoni, without a
>fight. No skitter, just GO.
>
>The rig gave me a surprise this evening when I climbed the hill up
>from the treatment plant which is usually a fixed gear dismount
>shoulder huffer, or on the "ute" it's deffo a granny +2, but I just
>crept up it like I had some magical tire crampons.
>
>The damn things alter gravity. Japan wins again.

Dear LD,

I'm glad that you like your new tires, but something else is probably
involved in your impression of greatly improved hill-climbing.

Here's a side-by-side speed calculator that lets you change such
things as rolling resistance:
http://bikecalculator.com/veloMetricNum.html

The default RR is 0.0050, roughly what a pair of 23 mm tires produce.
Some drop to 0.0030, and others rise higher. The incredibly bad 0.0100
RR is included to give some perspective.

5% grade, speed in km/h for defaults with changes below
100 200 300
RR watts watts watts
0.0100 7.23 13.80 19.50
0.0050 7.85 14.82 20.71
0.0000 8.57 15.96 22.02 (0.72 to 1.31 km/h faster)

10% grade, speed in km/h for defaults with changes below
100 200 300
RR watts watts watts
0.0100 4.00 7.94 11.74
0.0050 4.19 8.30 12.25
0.0000 4.40 8.70 12.81 (0.21 to 0.56 km/h faster)

The next calculator uses different defaults (weight and frontal area
and so forth) and isn't set up for side-by-side comparisons, but it
can be used to check that the figures above are plausible:
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/simul/HPV_Simul.asp

10% grade, speed in km/h for defaults with changes below
100 200 300
RR watts watts watts
0.0100 4.184 8.326 12.388
0.0050 4.382 8.714 12.950
0.0000 4.600 9.138 13.563 (0.218 to 0.613 km/h faster)

Even magical tires that reduce the typical ~0.0050 RR for 23 mm tires
to no rolling resistance at all would produce only about half a mile
per hour speed difference on 5% to 10% grades with 100 to 300 watts.

Real tires would produce an even smaller change due to RR improvement,
though their new-toy effect can produce much more substantial gains.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

M-gineering

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT), landotter
> <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So I was quite pleased with the daily fixer's makeover a couple weeks
>> ago. Quite frankly--it's the most perfectly fun bike I've ever owned.
>> A tough fixed gear with new Nitto Rando bars that I can ride in the
>> drops all day and those lovely 32mm Paselas I got on a whim that just
>> seemed so silly wide when I inflated them, as I assumed they'd be
>> narrower--they turned out to be very interesting tires.
>>
>> Never bothered buying gloves this spring. Don't need them with the fat
>> tires and cotton over old bar tape.
>>
>> I'm faster than I ever was with 23mm tires, just flowing past the
>> crowd, like on a marshmallow track, in my comfy old timey flared
>> drops, grinning wide. Could be some of the local rough pavement. The
>> Paselas just eat it up like molten cheese over pepperoni, without a
>> fight. No skitter, just GO.
>>

lots of stuff snipped


> Real tires would produce an even smaller change due to RR improvement,
> though their new-toy effect can produce much more substantial gains.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel


Carl, all those data assume a smootish road. If the surface gets rough
the 'powerplant' looses efficiency fast and shaking all those muscles
abosrbs power. It's quite possible to find a surface where you have to
hang on for dear life on 120 psi 23's when you could just smoothly power
over it with a supple 30-ish tyre
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Tue, 13 May 2008 08:25:31 +0200, M-gineering
<ikmotgeenspam@m-gineering.nl> wrote:

>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT), landotter
>> <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I was quite pleased with the daily fixer's makeover a couple weeks
>>> ago. Quite frankly--it's the most perfectly fun bike I've ever owned.
>>> A tough fixed gear with new Nitto Rando bars that I can ride in the
>>> drops all day and those lovely 32mm Paselas I got on a whim that just
>>> seemed so silly wide when I inflated them, as I assumed they'd be
>>> narrower--they turned out to be very interesting tires.
>>>
>>> Never bothered buying gloves this spring. Don't need them with the fat
>>> tires and cotton over old bar tape.
>>>
>>> I'm faster than I ever was with 23mm tires, just flowing past the
>>> crowd, like on a marshmallow track, in my comfy old timey flared
>>> drops, grinning wide. Could be some of the local rough pavement. The
>>> Paselas just eat it up like molten cheese over pepperoni, without a
>>> fight. No skitter, just GO.
>>>
>
>lots of stuff snipped
>
>
>> Real tires would produce an even smaller change due to RR improvement,
>> though their new-toy effect can produce much more substantial gains.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>
>Carl, all those data assume a smootish road. If the surface gets rough
>the 'powerplant' looses efficiency fast and shaking all those muscles
>abosrbs power. It's quite possible to find a surface where you have to
>hang on for dear life on 120 psi 23's when you could just smoothly power
>over it with a supple 30-ish tyre

Dear Marten,

Could be . . .

But I didn't get that impression from the two paragraphs about the
hill:

"The rig gave me a surprise this evening when I climbed the hill up
from the treatment plant which is usually a fixed gear dismount
shoulder huffer, or on the 'ute' it's deffo a granny +2, but I just
crept up it like I had some magical tire crampons."

"The damn things alter gravity. Japan wins again."

It's a "granny +2" hill on the "ute" and a "dismount shoulder huffer"
on the fixed gear, but replacing 23 mm tires with 38 mm tires turns
the hill into a "magical" climb for the fixed gear and seems to "alter
gravity"?

If that's the case, I look forward to some interesting details about
the hill.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Andre Jute

On May 13, 5:48*am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I was quite pleased with the daily fixer's makeover a couple weeks
> ago. Quite frankly--it's the most perfectly fun bike I've ever owned.
> A tough fixed gear with new Nitto Rando bars that I can ride in the
> drops all day and those lovely 32mm Paselas I got on a whim that just
> seemed so silly wide when I inflated them, as I assumed they'd be
> narrower--they turned out to be very interesting tires.
>
> Never bothered buying gloves this spring. Don't need them with the fat
> tires and cotton over old bar tape.
>
> I'm faster than I ever was with 23mm tires, just flowing past the
> crowd, like on a marshmallow track, in my comfy old timey flared
> drops, grinning wide. Could be some of the local rough pavement. The
> Paselas just eat it up like molten cheese over pepperoni, without a
> fight. No skitter, just GO.
>
> The rig gave me a surprise this evening when I climbed the hill up
> from the treatment plant which is usually a fixed gear dismount
> shoulder huffer, or on the "ute" it's deffo a granny +2, but I just
> crept up it like I had some magical tire crampons.
>
> The damn things alter gravity. Japan wins again.

Geez, if the Swedes are lashing out poetic hyperbole, I'd better start
looking over my shoulder. And the guy who writes the Pasela
advertising is disconsolately looking for a new job... I love your
report; it's what cycling should be about: discovery. magical moments,
getting your eyelids pinned back with surprise.

I imagine the imagination-less fogelites are already joylessly
preparing to snow you with a gazillion negative numbers "proving" you
didn't really enjoy your new bike and tires. Don't let them drain your
glee in cycling.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/...%20CYCLING.html

landotter

On May 13, 12:43 am, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:

[technical nonsense snip, there's a time and a place!]

SPIDEY BIKE!

> Real tires would produce an even smaller change due to RR improvement,
> though their new-toy effect can produce much more substantial gains.

Compared to the old rubber, they're far rounder, don't have a kevlar
belt, +2mm wider, so with some low speed balance issues I have due to
a funky blood vessel in the noggin, it's a definite feel thing. Feels
much more velcro-y now vs. tippy at stupid low speed now, especially
considering that I'm doing this obscene hill out of the saddle.

Forgot to mention that I got a new Pace Park Tools logo hat that
really goes nice with my summer jersey.

http://www.glorycycles.com/pasppatocap.html

Maybe the stripes are helping?

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT), landotter
<landotter@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 13, 12:43 am, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>[technical nonsense snip, there's a time and a place!]
>
>SPIDEY BIKE!
>
>> Real tires would produce an even smaller change due to RR improvement,
>> though their new-toy effect can produce much more substantial gains.
>
>Compared to the old rubber, they're far rounder, don't have a kevlar
>belt, +2mm wider, so with some low speed balance issues I have due to
>a funky blood vessel in the noggin, it's a definite feel thing. Feels
>much more velcro-y now vs. tippy at stupid low speed now, especially
>considering that I'm doing this obscene hill out of the saddle.
>
>Forgot to mention that I got a new Pace Park Tools logo hat that
>really goes nice with my summer jersey.
>
>http://www.glorycycles.com/pasppatocap.html
>
>Maybe the stripes are helping?

Dear LD,

So it's a matter of your special low-speed balance problem, not
rolling resistance?

That is, your old narrow tires were so "tippy" and the new wider tires
are "far rounder" and "+2mm wider" without kevlar belts, so you can
ride up the hill without losing your balance?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Mike Elliott

On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:

> For a good long while I used to think it was a
> woman's prison [...] I'd
> always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
> double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
> as they probably don't allow for straight pins.

Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
thought.

--
Mike RJS

landotter

On May 13, 2:48 pm, Mike Elliott <j.michael.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:
>
> > For a good long while I used to think it was a
> > woman's prison [...] I'd
> > always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
> > double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
> > as they probably don't allow for straight pins.
>
> Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
> thought.

Long solo rides without the bad influence of club dudes lets me go a
bit Lynchian upstairs. Beats counting grams!

Andre Jute

On May 13, 8:48*pm, Mike Elliott <j.michael.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:
>
> > For a good long while I used to think it was a
> > woman's prison [...] I'd
> > always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
> > double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
> > as they probably don't allow for straight pins.
>
> Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
> thought.
>
> --
> Mike RJS

Oh, I don't know, this Landotter guy is very productively weird. When
I was a teenager and a young man, it was the done thing if you arrived
in a strange country town in South Africa where I grew up, to present
yourself at the lounge in the nurse's hostel standing beside the local
hospital. If you were presentable and sober you would be made welcome,
and you might find a date for the evening, especially if there were
two or more young men in your party. And the only price was that the
Matron would insist on quizzing you, and making a little speech about
how she was responsible for these girls and if you returned her
charges after midnight, she sure as hell would call your mother (whose
name she had discovered from you) and drop you in hot water. Many a
tongue-tied young man married the nurse he met in some strange town
where his family had sent him on business. Now, if we'd only thought
of presenting ourselves at the woman's prison {with corsages on double-
sided tape, heh-heh) we could have skipped the speeches and gotten
straight down to business... Ah, what innocent days!

Andre Jute
Still a country boy at heart

Mike Rocket J Squirrel

On 5/13/2008 1:12 PM landotter wrote:

> On May 13, 2:48 pm, Mike Elliott <j.michael.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:
>>
>>> For a good long while I used to think it was a
>>> woman's prison [...] I'd
>>> always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
>>> double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
>>> as they probably don't allow for straight pins.
>>>
>> Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
>> thought.
>
> Long solo rides without the bad influence of club dudes lets me go a
> bit Lynchian upstairs. Beats counting grams!
>

Okay, point taken. And one is probably marginally more likely to get you
laid than the other. But at what cost, my friend? At what cost?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

landotter

On May 13, 8:12 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
<j.michael.elli...@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2008 1:12 PM landotter wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 2:48 pm, Mike Elliott <j.michael.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:
>
> >>> For a good long while I used to think it was a
> >>> woman's prison [...] I'd
> >>> always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
> >>> double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
> >>> as they probably don't allow for straight pins.
>
> >> Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
> >> thought.
>
> > Long solo rides without the bad influence of club dudes lets me go a
> > bit Lynchian upstairs. Beats counting grams!
>
> Okay, point taken. And one is probably marginally more likely to get you
> laid than the other. But at what cost, my friend? At what cost?

There's no turning back now, only visions of roadside midgets ringing
me up the hills with cowbells! Velvet curtains...wheee!

That said, I pulled a small group a good six miles today (I'd invited
them as I'd passed) and as I slowed down for my mellow cruise past the
cow farm, they were still there--never heard a freewheel behind me so
I thought I dropped them. I invited them to pass, as I'd had my fun
and waited for them to speak...and it wasn't backwards. All good!

Mmmm, pie.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel

On 5/13/2008 6:49 PM landotter wrote:

> On May 13, 8:12 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
> <j.michael.elli...@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/13/2008 1:12 PM landotter wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 13, 2:48 pm, Mike Elliott <j.michael.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:
>>>>> For a good long while I used to think it was a
>>>>> woman's prison [...] I'd
>>>>> always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
>>>>> double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
>>>>> as they probably don't allow for straight pins.
>>>> Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
>>>> thought.
>>> Long solo rides without the bad influence of club dudes lets me go a
>>> bit Lynchian upstairs. Beats counting grams!
>> Okay, point taken. And one is probably marginally more likely to get you
>> laid than the other. But at what cost, my friend? At what cost?
>
> There's no turning back now, only visions of roadside midgets ringing
> me up the hills with cowbells! Velvet curtains...wheee!

And is that Dean Stockwell drafting behind you?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

landotter

On May 13, 9:01 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
<j.michael.elli...@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2008 6:49 PM landotter wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 8:12 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
> > <j.michael.elli...@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/13/2008 1:12 PM landotter wrote:
>
> >>> On May 13, 2:48 pm, Mike Elliott <j.michael.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 5/13/2008 10:13 AM landotter wrote:
> >>>>> For a good long while I used to think it was a
> >>>>> woman's prison [...] I'd
> >>>>> always slow down and think about bringing me a corsage and maybe some
> >>>>> double sided tape for next time so I could fetch me a wife on the sly,
> >>>>> as they probably don't allow for straight pins.
> >>>> Wow. You know, I'm pretty sure I would not have given that quite as much
> >>>> thought.
> >>> Long solo rides without the bad influence of club dudes lets me go a
> >>> bit Lynchian upstairs. Beats counting grams!
> >> Okay, point taken. And one is probably marginally more likely to get you
> >> laid than the other. But at what cost, my friend? At what cost?
>
> > There's no turning back now, only visions of roadside midgets ringing
> > me up the hills with cowbells! Velvet curtains...wheee!
>
> And is that Dean Stockwell drafting behind you?
>
My choice of spirit guide is personal. You want a Gabor sister on a
Cervelo smoking a cigar--knock yourself out!