Cycling wrong way up one way street

John Wright

OG wrote:
> "TimB" <stokefolk@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ee1705fb-4419-4fe8-910e-9ea9f0b3270e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> What's the law on cycling the wrong way up a one way street? A few
>> days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
>> cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
>> travelling at a very leisurely pace, the wrong way round a local one
>> way system, on the pavement. It may or may not have said "Community
>> Support Officer" in smaller writing underneath.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I was too far behind the officers to challenge them
>> about their behaviour. I managed to get a few photos on my phone, but
>> they're very poor quality and wouldn't allow for identification. What
>> would be the best route to take to report these officers? As a
>> cyclist, I despise inconsiderate cycling at the best of times, but
>> from people who are a) supposed to be enforcing the law, and b) whose
>> inconsiderate cycling is much more noticable because of their
>> position, it's unacceptable.
>
> Was it particuarly inconsiderate to anyone?

Does that particularly matter? If you drive a car past a speed camera at
times a few mph over the speed limit when it won't particularly be
inconsiderate to anyone - e.g. at 2 in the morning, you will still get a
ticket.

--
John Wright

I feel like an insane person with the ability to mimic sanity

Neil Williams

On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:06:31 +0100, Colin McKenzie
<news@proof-read.co.uk> wrote:

>One-way streets are anti-cycling measures, and as such, should be
>returned to 2-way operation, possibly with plugs or mode filters to
>restrict undesirable motor vehicle use.

There are, in London, quite a lot of one-way streets that are two-way
for cycles only. Seems a good idea.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

OG

"John Wright" <john@pegasus.f2s.com> wrote in message
newstCdna999awym7fV4p2dnAA@pipex.net...
> OG wrote:
>> "TimB" <stokefolk@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ee1705fb-4419-4fe8-910e-9ea9f0b3270e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> What's the law on cycling the wrong way up a one way street? A few
>>> days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
>>> cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
>>> travelling at a very leisurely pace, the wrong way round a local one
>>> way system, on the pavement. It may or may not have said "Community
>>> Support Officer" in smaller writing underneath.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I was too far behind the officers to challenge them
>>> about their behaviour. I managed to get a few photos on my phone, but
>>> they're very poor quality and wouldn't allow for identification. What
>>> would be the best route to take to report these officers? As a
>>> cyclist, I despise inconsiderate cycling at the best of times, but
>>> from people who are a) supposed to be enforcing the law, and b) whose
>>> inconsiderate cycling is much more noticable because of their
>>> position, it's unacceptable.
>>
>> Was it particuarly inconsiderate to anyone?
>
> Does that particularly matter? If you drive a car past a speed camera at
> times a few mph over the speed limit when it won't particularly be
> inconsiderate to anyone - e.g. at 2 in the morning, you will still get a
> ticket.

But would you shop someone who you spotted doing it if there wasn't a
camera?

In law, no it doesn't make a difference, but whether the full power of the
law should be applied in every case is an interesting civil liberties
question.

Ian D Henden

"Dervin" <Dervin@Dervin.Dervin> wrote in message
news:kGkWj.40470$JE4.14683@newsfe11.ams2...
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 10:09:04 -0700, TimB wrote:
>> If this was a normal cyclist, what would be the expected penalty if
>> caught doing this?
>
> Probably nothing. A telling off if the PC is over zealous.

Or they might shoot you.

John Wright

OG wrote:
> "John Wright" <john@pegasus.f2s.com> wrote in message
> newstCdna999awym7fV4p2dnAA@pipex.net...
>> OG wrote:
>>> "TimB" <stokefolk@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ee1705fb-4419-4fe8-910e-9ea9f0b3270e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> What's the law on cycling the wrong way up a one way street? A few
>>>> days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
>>>> cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
>>>> travelling at a very leisurely pace, the wrong way round a local one
>>>> way system, on the pavement. It may or may not have said "Community
>>>> Support Officer" in smaller writing underneath.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I was too far behind the officers to challenge them
>>>> about their behaviour. I managed to get a few photos on my phone, but
>>>> they're very poor quality and wouldn't allow for identification. What
>>>> would be the best route to take to report these officers? As a
>>>> cyclist, I despise inconsiderate cycling at the best of times, but
>>>> from people who are a) supposed to be enforcing the law, and b) whose
>>>> inconsiderate cycling is much more noticable because of their
>>>> position, it's unacceptable.
>>> Was it particuarly inconsiderate to anyone?
>> Does that particularly matter? If you drive a car past a speed camera at
>> times a few mph over the speed limit when it won't particularly be
>> inconsiderate to anyone - e.g. at 2 in the morning, you will still get a
>> ticket.
>
> But would you shop someone who you spotted doing it if there wasn't a
> camera?

I wouldn't. I think the only time I might was if someone was way over
the speed limit in a sensitive place, like outside a school at chucking
out time.

> In law, no it doesn't make a difference, but whether the full power of the
> law should be applied in every case is an interesting civil liberties
> question.

It is indeed. I suspect that's why a lot of people don't like speed
cameras - they show no discretion.


--
John Wright

I feel like an insane person with the ability to mimic sanity

OG

"John Wright" <john@pegasus.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:MeadnVANjvwFl7fVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@pipex.net...
> OG wrote:
>> "John Wright" <john@pegasus.f2s.com> wrote in message
>> newstCdna999awym7fV4p2dnAA@pipex.net...
>>> OG wrote:
>>>> "TimB" <stokefolk@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ee1705fb-4419-4fe8-910e-9ea9f0b3270e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> What's the law on cycling the wrong way up a one way street? A few
>>>>> days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
>>>>> cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
>>>>> travelling at a very leisurely pace, the wrong way round a local one
>>>>> way system, on the pavement. It may or may not have said "Community
>>>>> Support Officer" in smaller writing underneath.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, I was too far behind the officers to challenge them
>>>>> about their behaviour. I managed to get a few photos on my phone, but
>>>>> they're very poor quality and wouldn't allow for identification. What
>>>>> would be the best route to take to report these officers? As a
>>>>> cyclist, I despise inconsiderate cycling at the best of times, but
>>>>> from people who are a) supposed to be enforcing the law, and b) whose
>>>>> inconsiderate cycling is much more noticable because of their
>>>>> position, it's unacceptable.
>>>> Was it particuarly inconsiderate to anyone?
>>> Does that particularly matter? If you drive a car past a speed camera at
>>> times a few mph over the speed limit when it won't particularly be
>>> inconsiderate to anyone - e.g. at 2 in the morning, you will still get a
>>> ticket.
>>
>> But would you shop someone who you spotted doing it if there wasn't a
>> camera?
>
> I wouldn't. I think the only time I might was if someone was way over the
> speed limit in a sensitive place, like outside a school at chucking out
> time.
>
>> In law, no it doesn't make a difference, but whether the full power of
>> the law should be applied in every case is an interesting civil liberties
>> question.
>
> It is indeed. I suspect that's why a lot of people don't like speed
> cameras - they show no discretion.
>

But cameras are pretty obvious, so if people were really bothered you think
they would take more care not to get caught.

Daniel Barlow

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) writes:

> There are, in London, quite a lot of one-way streets that are two-way
> for cycles only. Seems a good idea.

Until you meet a vehicle coming the other way which is not expecting
you to be there.


-dan

TimB

On May 13, 10:06 pm, Colin McKenzie <n...@proof-read.co.uk> wrote:
> TimB wrote:
>
> I expect you know it's illegal.

Actually, it did have me second guessing myself. Of course, it's
illegal to go the wrong way down a one way street, but does that mean
the one-way restriction extends to the pavement?

> It's not especially dangerous, if you
> do it on the road. But to many cyclists it seems less illegal, or at
> least safer, to use the pavement. It isn't, despite some drivers
> intimidating illegal on-road contraflow cyclists.
>
> But before condemning too much, consider
> - the one-way was introduced without any consideration of its effects
> on cyclists, and very possibly despite objections by local cyclists

For the record, this is the location (watch for wrapping).
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...scl=1&encType=1

The one way street in question is Marsh Street North leading to York
Street - this is treated as a single road. The officers rode along
this before turning left onto Trinity Street and rejoining normal
traffic flow.

The 'alternative' route would be along Hope Street and Foundry Street,
which is both legal and considerably safer. The part of Trinity Street
at the end of Foundry Street is incorrectly marked on the map as one
way - it is in fact a two way street. Yes, it is about 50 yards or so
longer, but it's also legal - a point I would have expected to have
been quite high on the list of priorities for the police when choosing
a route.


> - the alternative route is almost certain to be longer and contain
> more junctions, which make it more dangerous

There is one more junction on the legal route, controlled by traffic
lights. It also has a shared cycleway/footpath with cycle crossing
areas if you'd prefer that (although that takes you onto Stafford
Street and adds another 50 yards or so to your journey)

> - the alternative route may be a fast gyratory or dual carriageway,
> which many cyclists will not cycle on, because they're frightening and
> may be dangerous.

The route they took was a fast dual carriageway. The legal route was
considerably safer.

> One-way streets are anti-cycling measures, and as such, should be
> returned to 2-way operation, possibly with plugs or mode filters to
> restrict undesirable motor vehicle use.

As utopian as your idea sounds, the fact is that roads are primarily
built for cars - the 'equal road user' stance only holds up until you
find yourself playing chicken with a bus.

TimB

On May 13, 8:38 pm, "OG" <o...@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote:
> "TimB" <stokef...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ee1705fb-4419-4fe8-910e-9ea9f0b3270e@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > What's the law on cycling the wrong way up a one way street? A few
> > days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
> > cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
> > travelling at a very leisurely pace, the wrong way round a local one
> > way system, on the pavement. It may or may not have said "Community
> > Support Officer" in smaller writing underneath.
>
> > Unfortunately, I was too far behind the officers to challenge them
> > about their behaviour. I managed to get a few photos on my phone, but
> > they're very poor quality and wouldn't allow for identification. What
> > would be the best route to take to report these officers? As a
> > cyclist, I despise inconsiderate cycling at the best of times, but
> > from people who are a) supposed to be enforcing the law, and b) whose
> > inconsiderate cycling is much more noticable because of their
> > position, it's unacceptable.
>
> Was it particuarly inconsiderate to anyone?

There were a number of pedestrians using the pavement, which is not a
shared cycleway. The officers passed from behind without giving any
indication that they were there. Compared to many other cyclists,
nothing out of the ordinary. Considering that they should know better
- yes, they were being inconsiderate.

Neil Williams

On Tue, 13 May 2008 23:55:26 +0100, Daniel Barlow <dan@telent.net>
wrote:

>Until you meet a vehicle coming the other way which is not expecting
>you to be there.

Most of the ones I've seen have a clearly marked cycle lane (yes, I
know).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Doug

On 13 May, 18:09, TimB <stokef...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the law on cycling the wrong way up a one way street? A few
> days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
> cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
> travelling at a very leisurely pace, the wrong way round a local one
> way system, on the pavement. It may or may not have said "Community
> Support Officer" in smaller writing underneath.
>
> Unfortunately, I was too far behind the officers to challenge them
> about their behaviour. I managed to get a few photos on my phone, but
> they're very poor quality and wouldn't allow for identification. What
> would be the best route to take to report these officers? As a
> cyclist, I despise inconsiderate cycling at the best of times, but
> from people who are a) supposed to be enforcing the law, and b) whose
> inconsiderate cycling is much more noticable because of their
> position, it's unacceptable.
>
> If this was a normal cyclist, what would be the expected penalty if
> caught doing this?

Maybe a fine.

Of course police are not subject to the same laws as everyone else and
are rarely prosecuted, even when they kill someone.

The only reason people cycle on pavements is because they are too
scared to ride on our very dangerous roads, where almost anyone is
allowed to loose control of their lethal machine in a so-called
'accident'.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

Alan Braggins

In article <g0cvha$4dm$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>TimB wrote:
>
>> days ago, I was walking home, and saw two people on white Police
>> cycles, wearing hi vis jackets with POLICE emblazoned on the back,
>> travelling at a very leisurely pace
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Quite possible to have an exemption for emergency vehicles.

JNugent

TimB wrote:

> Colin McKenzie <n...@proof-read.co.uk> wrote:
>> TimB wrote:

>> I expect you know it's illegal.

> Actually, it did have me second guessing myself. Of course, it's
> illegal to go the wrong way down a one way street, but does that mean
> the one-way restriction extends to the pavement?

Of course it does - for vehicles.

If it didn't, it would be legal to drive a lorry the wrong way along the
street - as long as it was on the footway.

>> It's not especially dangerous, if you
>> do it on the road. But to many cyclists it seems less illegal, or at
>> least safer, to use the pavement. It isn't, despite some drivers
>> intimidating illegal on-road contraflow cyclists.

>> But before condemning too much, consider
>> - the one-way was introduced without any consideration of its effects
>> on cyclists, and very possibly despite objections by local cyclists

And?

Do they have some sort of veto?

joe

Doug wrote:

> Of course police are not subject to the same laws as everyone else and
> are rarely prosecuted, even when they kill someone.

Yes they are subject, however the second part seems true.


> The only reason people cycle on pavements is because they are too
> scared to ride on our very dangerous roads, where almost anyone is
> allowed to loose control of their lethal machine in a so-called
> 'accident'.

Who is 'allowed to loose control?(sic)

--