Changing Groupset Make

Christopher Harrison

Hi all,

I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?

Firstly, my current set is Shimano-based; with 105s on the front,
Tiagra on the back (or the other way around, I can't remember).
Anyway, I would like to upgrade to the Campagnolo Centaur set... Now,
I know that Shimano and Campagnolo kit are not mutually compatible;
but if you're upgrading *everything* does this matter? Presumably the
holes that are in the frame (Trek 1200) are standardised.

Following that, I'm a bit confused as to what is what, when buying a
groupset. I can manage crank length and cassette ratios -- but could
someone please tell me what the difference is between an "Italian" and
"English" bottom bracket; a "short" and "medium" rear mech; and a
"braze on", "32mm band" and "35mm band" front mech?

Many thanks, in advance
Christopher

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Christopher Harrison wrote:

> Hi all,

> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
> wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?

Are you sure you want to change the entire groupset parts assembly
combination? I may have missed a modifier there but you can fill. At
least its not a grouppo. We seem to be divided by a common language.

Jobst Brandt

Qui si parla Campagnolo

On Jun 10, 9:30*am, Christopher Harrison
<SpamFact...@chrisharrison.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
> wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?
>
> Firstly, my current set is Shimano-based; with 105s on the front,
> Tiagra on the back (or the other way around, I can't remember).
> Anyway, I would like to upgrade to the Campagnolo Centaur set... Now,
> I know that Shimano and Campagnolo kit are not mutually compatible;
> but if you're upgrading *everything* does this matter? Presumably the
> holes that are in the frame (Trek 1200) are standardised.

Yes they are-Bolt on the Campagnolo set, ensure you have a Campagnolo
or Campagnolo compatible rear hub for the cogset, go ride.
>
> Following that, I'm a bit confused as to what is what, when buying a
> groupset. I can manage crank length and cassette ratios -- but could
> someone please tell me what the difference is between an "Italian" and
> "English" bottom bracket; a "short" and "medium" rear mech; and a
> "braze on", "32mm band" and "35mm band" front mech?

Italian BB threads are 'correct' threaded on both sides. That is,
right/clockwise to tighten the cups on both sides. Most frames,
including the Trek, is 'english' which means the right side is
opposite threaded, so left/counterclockwise to tighten. The left side
is right/clockwise to tighten.

Cage lengths on the rear derailleur allow for more chain length for
more extreme cogset and front chainring ranges. For a double/2 ring
crank and anything but the 13-29 rear cog, get a short. If
double(either standard or compact-50/34tooth chainrings) and 13-29
cogset, get the medium. If you aren't sure, get the medium.

The front derailleur either is bolted on a little tab on the seat
tube(brazeon) or if there is no tab welded/attached to the frame, it
clamps on and depends on the diameter of the tube that it clamps onto.
Either 28.6mm, 31.8mm or 34.9mm.

If all this is mystifying, go talk to a decent bike shop.
>
> Many thanks, in advance
> Christopher

Hank

On Jun 10, 9:21*am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Christopher Harrison wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
> > wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?
>
> Are you sure you want to change the entire groupset parts assembly
> combination? *I may have missed a modifier there but you can fill. *At
> least its not a grouppo. *We seem to be divided by a common language.
>
> Jobst Brandt

I understood everything the OP said, but have no idea what you're
getting at.

He says he wants to change out all the components, which he reiterates
later in the post.

Bill Sornson

Christopher Harrison wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset

Just plonk Frank and Flailor, and it ain't so bad.

:-P

Bill Sornson

Hank wrote:
> On Jun 10, 9:21 am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> Christopher Harrison wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
>>> wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?

>> Are you sure you want to change the entire groupset parts assembly
>> combination? I may have missed a modifier there but you can fill. At
>> least its not a grouppo. We seem to be divided by a common language.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt

> I understood everything the OP said, but have no idea what you're
> getting at.

Pedantry. Surprised?

> He says he wants to change out all the components, which he reiterates
> later in the post.

Ol' JB never lets clear information interfere with his penchant for
pointless bullying and belittling.

HTH

Tom Kunich

"Christopher Harrison" <SpamFactory@chrisharrison.co.uk> wrote in message
news:274a1829-aef2-429d-8ef9-da8c0fa540b0@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
> wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?

The Centaur is a good group. About as good as the 105. The Centaur works a
little better in some things and not quite as well in others. The 105 shifts
smoother and quieter. The Centaur lets you know with a solid CLACK that it
has changed gears. (BTW, I prefer the Campy)

There is a difference in the rear cassette spacing between Shimano and
Campagnolo for most of their groups so if you're planning on changing out
the rear wheel as well you won't have any problems.

As I recall, the Shimano brakes feel better, the Campy shifters are more to
my tastes and the this is a spectacular deal on the Centaur Compact cranks :
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?...20Road%20Cranks

Jobst HATES low gears by the way. Climbing a straight up road in anything
lower than a 48-15 is sissy stuff to him. Not knocking him mind you - just
trying to give you some idea of why his tastes are radically different from
most people's.

JG

Christopher,
Taking a break from asking novice questions about Buddhism?

Assuming you are seriously planning to swap out a bunch of mid-level
Shimano components for mid-level Campy components...yes it will work
fine if you change everything. But a new rear derailleur will require
a new cluster which will require a new hub which will require someone
to build a new wheel... If you don't know the difference between
British and Italian BB threading go to Wikipedia and figure it out
first.

Of course it's your money and telling you how to spend it would be
almost as obnoxiouos as telling someone how to parent. But a wool
jersey or a Schmidt SON28 will do a lot more to enhance most normal
person's cycling experience...

JG

Sandy

Dans le message de
news:0cfe96b4-1580-44e0-b28d-03a5d57eaabf@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
JG <jchg@cox.net> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Christopher,
> Taking a break from asking novice questions about Buddhism?
>
> Assuming you are seriously planning to swap out a bunch of mid-level
> Shimano components for mid-level Campy components...yes it will work
> fine if you change everything. But a new rear derailleur will require
> a new cluster which will require a new hub which will require someone
> to build a new wheel...

Unless you use an American Classic cassette designed to replicate C spacing
on a S freewheel body. Simpler, and this is a part that wears, anyway.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On Jun 10, 10:30*am, Christopher Harrison
<SpamFact...@chrisharrison.co.uk> wrote:

> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
> wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?
>
> Firstly, my current set is Shimano-based; with 105s on the front,
> Tiagra on the back (or the other way around, I can't remember).
> Anyway, I would like to upgrade to the Campagnolo Centaur set.

Why go to Campagnolo? Shifters are different from what you're used
to-- have you ridden the Campy brifters, especially, and the rest of
the grouppo*, and like it better?

* Phhhht phhht test test this thing awn? --D-y

Christopher Harrison

Thanks, all

I had forgotten what an "interesting" mix you find on Usenet! However,
you've certainly answered my questions; for which I'm grateful. (One
can never be too sure of Wikipedia!) Spero che io parli Campagnolo
presto!

I've had a closer look at my bike and it was the other way around: It
seems to have a Tiagra chainset, hubs and brakes; with a 105 rear
mech; and the standard Trek/Bontranger crank and [presumably] BB. As
such, moving to Centaur level would be the upgrade I'm looking for;
particularly as most of my components are ready for a change (due to
wear). I was going to get some new wheels too, so hubs aren't an
issue.
Interestingly, you seem to imply that Centaur is about equivalent to
105. From what I've researched, Centaur is about the equal of Ultegra
(or better, depending what you read). Naïvely, they're about the same
price; but would you guys concur?

Apologies for my novice questions, but one has to start somewhere!

Thanks;
Christopher

Tom Kunich

"Christopher Harrison" <SpamFactory@chrisharrison.co.uk> wrote in message
news:26ab7028-9065-4a39-9f15-89f782ac594c@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Interestingly, you seem to imply that Centaur is about equivalent to
> 105. From what I've researched, Centaur is about the equal of Ultegra
> (or better, depending what you read). Naïvely, they're about the same
> price; but would you guys concur?

Welllllll - operationally the Centaur is about equal to Ultegra. However,
Ultegra is better finished in my opinion.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On Jun 11, 9:19*am, Christopher Harrison
<SpamFact...@chrisharrison.co.uk> wrote:
> Thanks, all
> As
> such, moving to Centaur level would be the upgrade I'm looking for;
> particularly as most of my components are ready for a change (due to
> wear). I was going to get some new wheels too, so hubs aren't an
> issue.
> Interestingly, you seem to imply that Centaur is about equivalent to
> 105. From what I've researched, Centaur is about the equal of Ultegra
> (or better, depending what you read). Naïvely, they're about the same
> price; but would you guys concur?

OK, I'll speak directly IRT to a problem with Campy.

A longtime Campy user, I've gotten to the point where the thumb
buttons are really bothering my thumbs-- when I want to ride on the
hoods, which is most of the time, I can't wrap my thumbs around the
hoods without getting poked in a bad place, and the newer "roundy"
style thumb buttons have a little pointy place (on my Centaurs,
anyhow) that is just exactly wrong for my poor old beat-up thumbs to
handle.

Rode a couple of ShimaNo bikes, Ultegra and Dura Ace. Despite the
confusion in operating "strange" shifting controls that might occur at
moments of stress (which could be somewhat dangerous, especially
riding in tight groups), I'm thinking of switching brands. Plus, Campy
hasn't made 165mm crank arms for many moons, and my old CRec items are
piling up hours (slowly, but piling...).

Big minus for Shimano are the flipper-style QR's for brakes, which can
be left open (and we've all done it) accidentally and then your
braking is much reduced, and of course the emergency situation is just
waiting for you to forget to flip the thing closed again. The Campy
button-style is so simple and so secure, it's a wonder Sh-No hasn't
copied it (or the historical forebears from Weinmann and possibly
others) long hence. At least they finally put an orbital adjuster
washer under the brake shoes.

The Shimano pedals beat the pants off Campy (opinion), as well. Having
owned at least three sets of each...

WTF cares about "equivalent" between brands, really? You want to look
at the brand you're interested in to make a good choice IRT price v.
bearing quality (for instance) and other functional/finish factors as
you stroll through the catalog group sets. "This one is shinier" might
be a valid factor, but not a primary one IMHO.

IOW, if you can handle the thumb buttons, for one biggie, then Campy
is fine. If changing might be a problem, for the buttons or "emergency
response" on familiar controls, or any other reason, why change? --
D-y

andresmuro@aol.com

On Jun 10, 9:30 am, Christopher Harrison
<SpamFact...@chrisharrison.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am very tempted to upgrade my entire groupset, however I was
> wondering if I could please ask for a bit of advice?
>
> Firstly, my current set is Shimano-based; with 105s on the front,
> Tiagra on the back (or the other way around, I can't remember).
> Anyway, I would like to upgrade to the Campagnolo Centaur set... Now,
> I know that Shimano and Campagnolo kit are not mutually compatible;
> but if you're upgrading *everything* does this matter? Presumably the
> holes that are in the frame (Trek 1200) are standardised.

You can change your components to campy. You need to make sure that
you get everything. Shimano shifters will not work properly with campy
parts and viceversa.
>
> Following that, I'm a bit confused as to what is what, when buying a
> groupset. I can manage crank length and cassette ratios -- but could
> someone please tell me what the difference is between an "Italian" and
> "English" bottom bracket;

it is the threading and opening size for the bottom bracket and
headset that different builders use. Most use english threads which
are almost standard now. Some Italian builders may still use Italian
threads, but your Trek frame will have English threads.


a "short" and "medium" rear mech; and a

This is the length that separates the two pulleys in the rear
deraullier. The more gears and ranges that you have, the longer that
this distance will be to ensure even tension of the chain in all
gears. a medium cage deraullier will work fine in more situations. a
short cage deraullier will not. Since compact cranks and triples are
very popular nowadays, you will probably benefit more from a medium
cage deraullier.

> "braze on", "32mm band" and "35mm band" front mech?

brazed on means that the front deraullier is held to the frame by a
bolt only. The bolt will fit a deraullier hanger that has been already
brazed into the frame. If the frame does not have a brazed hanger, you
need to get a front deraulier that has a band that clamps around the
frame. The size of the clamp will depend on the diameter of the
downtube.

Finally, Mike Jacaubousky (sp) is a trek dealer. If you post a message
here with his name and a reference to Trek, and ask him what threads,
clamps, lengths you need, he'll know exactly what your bike will
need.

hope this helps,

Andres
>
> Many thanks, in advance
> Christopher