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2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5 km

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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:22 PM   #61
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Cool Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klodifan
i wonder whaat valverde is saying? your tactics suck?

Valverde can say what he wants....but in truth he's nothing but a choker
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:25 PM   #62
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klodifan
i wonder whaat valverde is saying? your tactics suck?
It depends on whose side he is on.

The peloton is a white train (CSC) followed by the light blue train (Gerolsteiner).
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:25 PM   #63
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by thoughtforfood
He isn't that much stronger. I do think the attacks should happen on the final climb from the very bottom, and I think they will if they believe they have worn down the others enough.
Final climb is way too late. Shleck or Sastre can't get enough time on Evans if they wait that long.

As others have noted, you're not going to wear out Evans with a fast steady pace. Much more likely you'll wear out Sastre and Shleck that way.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:29 PM   #64
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by Scotttri
Valverde can say what he wants....but in truth he's nothing but a choker

valverde may still win this thing, but I agree with serpico. waiting till l'ape d'huez to attack is a losing tactic.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:34 PM   #65
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klodifan
valverde may still win this thing, but I agree with serpico. waiting till l'ape d'huez to attack is a losing tactic.
Piti is 4:11 down Schleck. And given that he is not as good a time trialist as Evans or Menchov, he will need a cushion. So, I would say that it is unlikely for him to be able to win - unless everyone blows up utterly.

Edit: Great view of Alpine glaciers!
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:37 PM   #66
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by serpico7
Final climb is way too late. Shleck or Sastre can't get enough time on Evans if they wait that long.

As others have noted, you're not going to wear out Evans with a fast steady pace. Much more likely you'll wear out Sastre and Shleck that way.

I am speaking of the attacks that realistically could drop Cadel. That wont happen until the Alpe. He is much too strong to drop any earlier than that.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:41 PM   #67
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by TheDarkLord
Piti is 4:11 down Schleck. And given that he is not as good a time trialist as Evans or Menchov, he will need a cushion. So, I would say that it is unlikely for him to be able to win - unless everyone blows up utterly.

Edit: Great view of Alpine glaciers!

i agree, its unlikely. but if he attacks early today and the rest respond like they have, its possible. he has to get away on the second climb.

cadel isnt that strong. he has just been hanging on to a steady pace set by csc. it works for him. if tactics were different cadel would totally crack before final climb
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:44 PM   #68
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by thoughtforfood
I am speaking of the attacks that realistically could drop Cadel. That wont happen until the Alpe. He is much too strong to drop any earlier than that.
At a steady pace, yes, he's too strong to drop until very late.

If CSC wait until the Alps, Frank may as well hand Evans his yellow jersey. CSC has to be willing to sacrifice the white jersey and a podium place if they want the yellow.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:45 PM   #69
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by Klodifan
i agree, its unlikely. but if he attacks early today and the rest respond like they have, its possible. he has to get away on the second climb.

cadel isnt that strong. he has just been hanging on to a steady pace set by csc. it works for him. if tactics were different cadel would totally crack before final climb

I just don't think they can crack him that early. They have to ride the last climb, and to drop him while blowing yourself up for the last climb makes no sense. Cadel is strong, make no mistake about that.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:46 PM   #70
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Watching CSC gives me new respect for JB and Discovery.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:49 PM   #71
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Awesome scenery!
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:53 PM   #72
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
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Originally Posted by thoughtforfood
I just don't think they can crack him that early. They have to ride the last climb, and to drop him while blowing yourself up for the last climb makes no sense. Cadel is strong, make no mistake about that.
How much time do you think Sastre or Frank can get on Evans in the final climb? Remember, none of these guys is climbing like Ricco.

I think that Sastre and Frank have to be willing to risk blowing themselves up today if they want a chance to win. Not blowing up, but gaining only seconds on Evans is a losing strategy.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:54 PM   #73
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klodifan
i agree, its unlikely. but if he attacks early today and the rest respond like they have, its possible. he has to get away on the second climb.

cadel isnt that strong. he has just been hanging on to a steady pace set by csc. it works for him. if tactics were different cadel would totally crack before final climb

What do you mean not that strong??? The past couple of years he's proven he can definately match it with the best on any mountain
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:56 PM   #74
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Sherwin just summed up how much the French have sucked at the TdF. Yesterday's win by Dessel was only the 20th stage win for the French in the last ten years.
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Old 23-07.-2008, 08:57 PM   #75
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Default Re: 2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico7
How much time do you think Sastre or Frank can get on Evans in the final climb? Remember, none of these guys is climbing like Ricco.

I think that Sastre and Frank have to be willing to risk blowing themselves up today if they want a chance to win. Not blowing up, but gaining only seconds on Evans is a losing strategy.

I agree they need to do something, and hey it's the tour there's no point holding back, but evans is to experienced now, he's learnt from his mistakes, if they put him in trouble he'll let them go, and ride at his pace and will in affect ride back up to them. Sure they can gap him but can they keep the same pace he can over the distance, on the last climb maybe but on the second last time, I think it'll be alot of waisted effort
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