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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

post #1 of 402
Thread Starter 
It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested in
hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.

A few weeks ago, yet another rider who had just upgraded to
disk brakes found that he couldn't reliably keep his wheel
stationary in the dropouts under heavy braking. So far, so
normal. Having found my web page, he then did what it seems
no mountain biker before him has bothered to do, and asked
the manufacturers for advice. In all, he spoke to Answer
(Manitou), Fox Racing, and also Avid and Chris King.

The clever ones will already have worked out where the
subject line came from. Yes, to a man (actually, 3 men and
one woman), they all insisted that he was the first person
to have ever brought this up with them, and no, they had no
plans to do anything about it, because no-one else ever had
this problem. One of them (Avid) did say that it was
obviously dangerous and he should not ride the bike in that
state, but had no useful suggestion as to what he could do
to make it safe.

So there you have it. At this rate, by the time next year's
complaint comes in, they will presumably have forgotten this
first one. How convenient for them. Those who thought that
it wouldn't do to kick up a fuss because the poor
manufacturers were doing their best, may wish to re-examine
their approach. Or else studiously ignore this post in the
vain hope that the problem will go away.

James
post #2 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"James Annan" <still_the_same_me@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:405aed81$0$23537$44c9b20d@news3.asahi-net.or.jp...
> It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
> headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
> in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.
>
> A few weeks ago, yet another rider who had just upgraded
> to disk brakes found that he couldn't reliably keep his
> wheel stationary in the dropouts under heavy braking. So
> far, so normal. Having found my web page, he then did
> what it seems no mountain biker before him has bothered
> to do, and asked the manufacturers for advice. In all, he
> spoke to Answer (Manitou), Fox Racing, and also Avid and
> Chris King.
>
> The clever ones will already have worked out where the
> subject line came from. Yes, to a man (actually, 3 men and
> one woman), they all insisted that he was the first person
> to have ever brought this up with them, and no, they had
> no plans to do anything about it, because no-one else ever
> had this problem. One of them (Avid) did say that it was
> obviously dangerous and he should not ride the bike in
> that state, but had no useful suggestion as to what he
> could do to make it safe.
>
> So there you have it. At this rate, by the time next
> year's complaint comes in, they will presumably have
> forgotten this first one. How convenient for them. Those
> who thought that it wouldn't do to kick up a fuss because
> the poor manufacturers were doing their best, may wish to
> re-examine their approach. Or else studiously ignore this
> post in the vain hope that the problem will go away.
>
> James
>

...or come back to rim brakes ;-)
post #3 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"(t'other) Dave" <no-one@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:0kC6c.21787$F.10287@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "James Annan" <still_the_same_me@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:405aed81$0$23537$44c9b20d@news3.asahi-
> net.or.jp...
> > It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
> > headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
> > in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.
> >
> > A few weeks ago, yet another rider who had just upgraded
> > to disk brakes found that he couldn't reliably keep his
> > wheel stationary in the dropouts under heavy braking. So
> > far, so normal. Having found my web page, he then did
> > what it seems no mountain biker before him has bothered
> > to do, and asked the manufacturers for advice. In all,
> > he spoke to Answer (Manitou), Fox Racing, and also Avid
> > and Chris King.
> >
> > The clever ones will already have worked out where the
> > subject line came from. Yes, to a man (actually, 3 men
> > and one woman), they all insisted that he was the first
> > person to have ever brought this up with them, and no,
> > they had no plans to do anything about it, because no-
> > one else ever had this problem. One of them (Avid) did
> > say that it was obviously dangerous and he should not
> > ride the bike in that state, but had no useful
> > suggestion as to what he could do to make it safe.
> >
> > So there you have it. At this rate, by the time next
> > year's complaint comes in, they will presumably have
> > forgotten this first one. How convenient for them. Those
> > who thought that it wouldn't do to kick up a fuss
> > because the poor manufacturers were doing their best,
> > may wish to re-examine their approach. Or else
> > studiously ignore this post in the vain hope that the
> > problem will go away.
> >
> > James
> >
>
> ...or come back to rim brakes ;-)

Infidel! Heretic! Hiccup!

Shaun aRe
post #4 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"James Annan" <still_the_same_me@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:405aed81$0$23537$44c9b20d@news3.asahi-net.or.jp...
> It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
> headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
> in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.

Well I've not had a problem yet but I do make sure the
standard Shimano skewers are very tight. Also I've noticed
the "Lawyer Lips" on my new Rockshox seem particularly
generous, I don't know if that's just a fluke or deliberate
to help address the (alleged) problem.
--
Regards, Pete
post #5 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"Peter B" <peter28@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:c3f1bb$ren$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Well I've not had a problem yet but I do make sure the
> standard Shimano skewers are very tight.

We use thru-axles and pinch bolts on a majority of our
bikes. It solves the problem on having to worry if the QR is
tight enough or not.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!
post #6 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:50:19 +0000, Peter B wrote:

> Well I've not had a problem yet but I do make sure the
> standard Shimano skewers are very tight.

Is there such a thing as too tight? Is there a danger of the
skewer being over-stressed and being more likely to fail?

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
post #7 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"James Annan" <still_the_same_me@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:405aed81$0$23537$44c9b20d@news3.asahi-net.or.jp...
> It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
> headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
> in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.
>
...or not, as the case appears to be.

Have you contacted someone like Watchdog (UK consumer
affairs program, for the non-UK readers on the x-post) to
see if they are interested. There has been a reasonable
amount of publicity /within the interested groups/, which
are, unfortunately, regarded as a weird minority by the
public, but your average Joe Punter who buys a supermarket
y-frame full-sus brick won't have read this, and poor though
they may be, discs are starting to appear on these - and the
users may not know (how) to check that their QRs are tight.

E
post #8 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Jon Senior wrote:

>> Is there such a thing as too tight? Is there a danger
>> of the skewer being over-stressed and being more likely
>> to fail?
>
> With quick-release, if you have the skewers too tight,
> they can make the hub bearings bind. Giant's bike manual
> suggested that the levers were too loose if closing them
> didn't leave an imprint in my palm. Doing so meant the
> wheels stopped rotating within about 3/4 revolution,
> compared to around 20 when loose.

Cones can be loosened to compensate for a tighter skewer.
In other words, readjust so there's more play in the hub
before QR is done up, to cope with the greater axle
compression when it is closed. I don't think it's an issue
for cartridge bearings.

This is besides the point though. There's obviously a
fundamental problem with the type of setup in question.
Doing up the QR a bit tighter hardly seems like a
satisfactory solution.

~PB
post #9 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:37:22 -0500, in
<405B21C2.1010903@sheldonbrown.com>, Sheldon Brown
<captbike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:

>Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown

Is this a competition?

--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.
post #10 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Richard Bates wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:37:22 -0500, in
> <405B21C2.1010903@sheldonbrown.com>, Sheldon Brown
> <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>
>> Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown
>
> Is this a competition?

Umm, if it is you lose.

Bill "as would I" S.
post #11 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

James Annan wrote:

> It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
> headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
> in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.

I'm pretty sure some manufacturers are now starting to put
the disc on the RH side of the fork. It's certainly an
accepted problem.
post #12 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Zog The Undeniable wrote:
> James Annan wrote:
>> It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
>> headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
>> in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.

> I'm pretty sure some manufacturers are now starting to put
> the disc on the RH side of the fork.

I might be dense, but I can't see how that would help. I
*can* see that putting the calipers in front of the fork
would help, but the right hand side? What am I missing?

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu
post #13 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"bomba" <myarse247@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.03.19.15.14.25.308034@hotmail.com...
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:50:19 +0000, Peter B wrote:
>
> > Well I've not had a problem yet but I do make sure the
> > standard Shimano skewers are very tight.
>
> Is there such a thing as too tight? Is there a danger
> of the skewer being over-stressed and being more likely
> to fail?
>

Well, skewers do break. It's rare for good quality steel
skewers to break but others do.

Greg
post #14 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

"TBF" <jr.miller@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Q9H6c.62425$ohV.10281@news01.bl...ble.rogers.com...
> "James Annan" <still_the_same_me@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:405aed81$0$23537$44c9b20d@news3.asahi-
> net.or.jp...
> > It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the
> > headlines, and I thought some of you might be interested
> > in hearing how the manufacturers are dealing with it.
>
>
> I keep hearing about this issue with greater frequency,
> but I've been running discs for a few years now and it's
> only popped out once in that time. It was my fault on that
> occasion, I realized afterwards that I
hadn't
> properly tightend the QR.
>
> Now that it's been mentioned though, I have noticed the
> "Lawyer Lip" on my Bomber. It's a few years old too but it
> definitely keeps the wheel on even with the QR loosened.
>

Don't rely on the lawyer lips like you would have back with
cantilevers.

Greg
post #15 of 402

Re: "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

In rec.bicycles.tech dvt <dvt_spam@psu.edu> wrote:
> I might be dense, but I can't see how that would help. I
> *can* see that putting the calipers in front of the fork
> would help, but the right hand side? What am I missing?

putting it on the right side of the fork would also put it
on the front of the fork if you're using existing brakes.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com
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