advice on buying a new mountain bike

Now is an excellent time to buy mate the aussie dollar is up. I like the
Norco range. Spend as much as you can to assure a sound ride that will
do you well



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>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

On 3 Nov 2003 02:05:56 -0800, [email protected] (lemming)
wrote:

>Hi I am 14 years old and am looking for a new dual suspension bike.My
>budget is about $1200. Can anyone please tell me a good value brand
>or model, or what sort of things I should look for?

$1200 isn't a lot for a duallie - the beter ones come in around teh
$2000 mark - you may be better off getting a good hardtail for that
money.

For example, the cheapest duallie at Phantom's site
(www.phantomcycles.com.au) is a 2003 Giant NRS3 - the bottom model in
the NRS range. $1895, although you could probably negotiate down a
little. No discs on this model, but they certainly aren't essential.
$1200 will get you a mechanical disc braked Giant Iguana, while a
little more will get a hydro disc braked Giant XTC hardtail (quite
popular on trails round here).

http://www.bikeaddiction.com.au/mtb/mtb.htm have their cheapest Norco
at $2399.

You need to think about the sort of riding you want to do - are you a
weight weenie XC racer, or are you a gnarly, extreeeeem free riding
d00d? Somewhere in between? Different bikes suit different purposes,
and a freeride style will generally be stronger, but heavier than XC
styles (not always). Cheaper models are usually heavier as well.

You may be better off checking out the Trading Post for good econd
bikes - but I'd avoid any downhill style in second hand - they tend to
get more of a thrashing, and may have hidden faults. Lots of decent
bikes come up second hand, and a good rule of thumb is to start at
half retail price.

You might also find some dealers with 2002 or even runout 2003 bikes -
good savings, although you miss out on teh vey latest gear - not a big
deal.

Buy the best frame you can afford, and worry less about components -
components break and wear out long before a rame should!

hmmm... that name (in your email addy) looks familiar to me
(especially when associated with that age) - not from Wanneroo by any
chance?


>
>any help is greatly appreciated

No worries

Tony F
www.thefathippy.com

tony f:

> Buy the best frame you can afford, and worry less about components -
> components break and wear out long before a rame should!

All quite good advice, but the above one especially.

Things to look for in a good frame:
- consistent welds especially around highly-stressed areas like the
bottom bracket and head tube joins (ie the welds look continuous and not
like toothpaste squeezed out carelessly)
- straight gauge tubing, be it aluminium or steel (beware of
trick-sounding jargon like "butted", "double-butted", or even "triple
butted" when it comes to frame tubing)
- non-integrated headsets (ie the head tube is straight and does not
have bulges on its ends)
- replaceable rear derailleur hanger (ie the driveside rear dropout has
a removable piece where the derailleur bolts on)

Take an adult with you when you shop around.

Beware of really light aluminium components. Don't look to save weight
on the stem, handlebar, and seatpost. These components have the worst
consequences if they break so get sturdy-looking ones even if they
aren't lightweight.

A good V-brake (and most of them are good enough) is much better than a
cheap disc brake.

> Beware of really light aluminium components. Don't look to save weight
> on the stem, handlebar, and seatpost. These components have the worst
> consequences if they break so get sturdy-looking ones even if they
> aren't lightweight.
>

Yes this is great advice. The worst thing that could happen is for one of
these components to fail at 50+km's an hour. Quite nasty results.

Pete

Jose Rizal wrote:
> tony f:
>
>
>>Buy the best frame you can afford, and worry less about components -
>>components break and wear out long before a rame should!
>
>
> All quite good advice, but the above one especially.

Is that true in this particular case? He is only 14, and might grow
out of it soon.

Mike:

> Jose Rizal wrote:
> > tony f:
> >
> >
> >>Buy the best frame you can afford, and worry less about components -
> >>components break and wear out long before a rame should!
> >
> >
> > All quite good advice, but the above one especially.
>
> Is that true in this particular case? He is only 14, and might grow
> out of it soon.

That doesn't negate the need to purchase the best frame he can. A
bicycle frame isn't in the same category as disposable toys; it needs to
be durable. This can only be good for resale value if outgrowing it is
an issue.

"Jose Rizal" <_@_._> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Things to look for in a good frame:
> - straight gauge tubing, be it aluminium or steel (beware of
> trick-sounding jargon like "butted", "double-butted", or even "triple
> butted" when it comes to frame tubing)

What's wrong with butted tubing?
I had butted vegemite toast this morning and it was great...

But seriously: What's IS the issue with butted tubing?

> Take an adult with you when you shop around.

Preferably one who knows something about bikes!
Adults can do the whole "ooh nice paint, ooh wow
suspension!" thing as well you know

> A good V-brake (and most of them are good enough) is much better than
a
> cheap disc brake.

Is this still the case? I've seen some cheap disc brakes on
phantom.com.au and heard some good things about them
Are there still "k-mart quality" disc brakes that people
should beware of? Which brands are junk?

thanks!
hippy

> > Take an adult with you when you shop around.
>
> Preferably one who knows something about bikes!
> Adults can do the whole "ooh nice paint, ooh wow
> suspension!" thing as well you know
>

lol. Yes. Its like "Suspension? Gee that is better than those bikes
without it" Adult motions towards high quality roadies.

Hippy wrote:
> "Jose Rizal" <_@_._> wrote in message news:tuFpb.4832$9M3.1705@newsread-
> 2.news.atl.earthlink.netnews:[email protected]
> thlink.net...
> > Things to look for in a good frame:
> > - straight gauge tubing, be it aluminium or steel (beware of
> > trick-sounding jargon like "butted", "double-butted", or even
> > "triple butted" when it comes to frame tubing)
> What's wrong with butted tubing? I had butted vegemite toast this
> morning and it was great...
> But seriously: What's IS the issue with butted tubing?
> > Take an adult with you when you shop around.
> Preferably one who knows something about bikes! Adults can do the whole
> "ooh nice paint, ooh wow suspension!" thing as well you know
> > A good V-brake (and most of them are good enough) is much better than
> a
> > cheap disc brake.
> Is this still the case? I've seen some cheap disc brakes on
> phantom.com.au and heard some good things about them Are there still
> "k-mart quality" disc brakes that people should beware of? Which
> brands are junk?
> thanks! hippy



G'day Hippy, I bought a cheap(ish) Merida with discs and was a bit
nervous after the last time this topic was discussed, but they seem to
be fine. It pulls up a hell of a lot quicker than my road bike and wet
roads don't affect it much. The brake system is the entry-level Shimano
system (is this significantly better than K-Mart though?!)



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>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

hippy:

> "Jose Rizal" <_@_._> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Things to look for in a good frame:
> > - straight gauge tubing, be it aluminium or steel (beware of
> > trick-sounding jargon like "butted", "double-butted", or even "triple
> > butted" when it comes to frame tubing)
>
> What's wrong with butted tubing?
> I had butted vegemite toast this morning and it was great...
>
> But seriously: What's IS the issue with butted tubing?

The purpose of butted tubing is to reduce frame weight, the theory being
that you can have thinner sections between the butted ends of a tube
where load stresses are less. However, the weight savings are usually
less than what you typically lose after morning ablutions, but the cost
increase is quite phenomenal, unreasonably disproportionate to any
weight savings, in my opinion. The other issue with butted tubing is
that there is no telling how thin (and hence, how strong) the thin
sections are; at the "stupid-light" end of the spectrum, these thinner
walls are easily dented.

Other marketing claims are made of superior stiffness, compliance and
such with butted tubing. These are simply marketing BS. You will not
notice any difference in ride "feel" between a butted and straight gauge
frame; all the other components carrying the rider's weight such as the
tyres and saddle have "compliance" effects that are orders of magnitude
greater than what frames can produce.

> > A good V-brake (and most of them are good enough) is much better than
> > a cheap disc brake.
>
> Is this still the case? I've seen some cheap disc brakes on
> phantom.com.au and heard some good things about them
> Are there still "k-mart quality" disc brakes that people
> should beware of? Which brands are junk?

I've encountered cheap and nasty disc brakes from DiaTech and Tektro,
and have not heard many good things about Formulas, adjustability and
reliability being the biggest issues. I can't see any relatively cheap
disc brakes from phantomcycles, but the cheapest there, the Hayes
mechanical, is nothing like its hydraulic counterpart. The Hayes mech
is difficult to install, requires an allen wrench to adjust the only
adjustable pad (the inner one), exhibits inner pad toe out (ie the inner
pad leading edge touches the rotor first), and has a flimsy rotating
caliper lever (what the cable pulls on). For mechanical disc brakes I
think the Avid is the best choice, but it comes at a premium price.
It's not much cheaper than Hayes XC hydraulics (which aren't bad).

John Doe:

> > > Take an adult with you when you shop around.
> >
> > Preferably one who knows something about bikes!
> > Adults can do the whole "ooh nice paint, ooh wow
> > suspension!" thing as well you know
> >
> lol. Yes. Its like "Suspension? Gee that is better than those bikes
> without it" Adult motions towards high quality roadies.

I had in mind the adult(s) responsible for the kid's bike budget; I
think it might be fair to say that they will have a vested interest in
getting a good deal for *their* money...

> > lol. Yes. Its like "Suspension? Gee that is better than those bikes
> > without it" Adult motions towards high quality roadies.
>
> I had in mind the adult(s) responsible for the kid's bike budget; I
> think it might be fair to say that they will have a vested interest in
> getting a good deal for *their* money...

I think that their would be a lot of parents in charge of the bike budget
but have no idea about bikes. It would be more prudent for that parent to
seek a friend who is into bikes. It would be better for them to have an
enthusiast who is a 14 year old than a 40 year old with no idea.

Peter

Thanks everyone for the info!
I'm saving the money myself.

Lemming

lemming <[email protected]> wrote in message
[email protected]
> Thanks everyone for the info!
> I'm saving the money myself.

Would you teach me how to save up money, please?

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A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Jose Rizal wrote:

> The other issue with butted tubing is
> that there is no telling how thin (and hence, how strong) the thin
> sections are;

Well, generally in case of cheaper frames there is no telling who
actually welded the tubes and how well. Welds or rather sections of
tubes near them are the spots where frames break most of the times,
usually because someone spoilt the job. Sometimes manufacturers try
to cover bad welds with paint and you are simply not able to assess
the quality.

> Other marketing claims are made of superior stiffness, compliance and
> such with butted tubing. These are simply marketing BS. You will not
> notice any difference in ride "feel" between a butted and straight gauge
> frame;

Oh, you seem to underestimate the effects of placebo ;-) One can
certainly notice (feel) the difference, but it does not mean it exists
in reality.

--
Best regards,
Rado bladteth Rzeznicki
http://www.widzew.net/~bladteth/rower.html
mailto:[email protected]
MCM #252

Rado bladteth Rzeznicki:

> Jose Rizal wrote:
>
> > The other issue with butted tubing is
> > that there is no telling how thin (and hence, how strong) the thin
> > sections are;
>
> Well, generally in case of cheaper frames there is no telling who
> actually welded the tubes and how well. Welds or rather sections of
> tubes near them are the spots where frames break most of the times,
> usually because someone spoilt the job. Sometimes manufacturers try
> to cover bad welds with paint and you are simply not able to assess
> the quality.

This doesn't address the issue of butted tubing. The point is that the
thin sections can be less damage tolerant than equivalent straight gauge
tubing, for minuscule decrease in weight.

> > Other marketing claims are made of superior stiffness, compliance and
> > such with butted tubing. These are simply marketing BS. You will not
> > notice any difference in ride "feel" between a butted and straight gauge
> > frame;
>
> Oh, you seem to underestimate the effects of placebo ;-) One can
> certainly notice (feel) the difference, but it does not mean it exists
> in reality.

Placebo or not, what I stated is that you will not feel a difference in
ride "feel" between a butted and straight gauge tubed frame. What
differences in feel there may be will be due to the saddle, tyres,
handlebar and seatpost, not the frame itself.