UST tire recommendations?

Python, Python, Python. I put on a mosquito when it got moist in the spring, but as soon as it dried
out somewhat, the Python went right back on. Pythons rock in all conditions, IMO.

The Crossmax, boutique as they may be, sure have been running strong for, quite literally,
thousands of miles.

Tubeless tires are different from their tubed kin. Better sidewall, a beefier bead are a few
differences.

Sorni wrote:

>Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
>pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
>big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like to
>find a fatter front tire one of these days.)
>
>So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50 for
>a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on the light side (and affordable would be nice, too
>
>I've heard positive & negative about tubeless tires in general -- positive including lower
>pressures and fewer flats; negative lousy selection, higher weight, more expense, etc. There seems
>to be a truly different "feel" with tubeless -- or is it just imaginary?
>
>Bill "if I google it I'll just get 'tubless' ;-)" S.
>
>

"Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
> for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on
the
> light side (and affordable would be nice, too
>

The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles **** conditions very well...much
better than the tread pattern would lead you to believe. The only problem you might have with them
is AFAIK the widest they come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter"
which, to me, starts at about 2.3

http://www.cambriabike.com/tires/irc_serac_xc_tubeless_front-rear_tire.htm

The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
like to be perfectly round - giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still
isn't perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house. The roundness usually
isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any real quibbles with
Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.

If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at 35-40
psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
tubed tires.

You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big volume is the only way to go. Some folks use a
compressor, but that's like putting on pedals with ChannelLocks.

I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
equipped with it. But what do I know.

Chris

Sorni wrote:
>
> Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
> pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness.

These came on my new VT1. I normally build my own wheels, but I LOVE these!

>
> So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend?

So far I and others with the same bike have had excellent results with the Hutchinson Scorpions
that came with them. They are narrower spec-wise, but I used to ride 2.2 and 2.3's on other bikes,
and the Scorpions feel more like a 2.2. I haven actually measured them to see how true the
measurement is.

> There seems to be a truly different "feel" with tubeless -- or is it just imaginary?

I think the traction and ride quality are noticibly better. Of course, this is completely
subjective. <G>

Barry

"Anthony Sloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Sorni wrote:
>
> >Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know,
"boutique"
> >wheels but I got a pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of
their
> >UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a big hurry, as running 'em with
tubes
> >and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like to find a
fatter
> >front tire one of these days.)
> >
> >So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
> >for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on
the
> >light side (and affordable would be nice, too
> >
> >I've heard positive & negative about tubeless tires in general --
positive
> >including lower pressures and fewer flats; negative lousy selection,
higher
> >weight, more expense, etc. There seems to be a truly different "feel"
with
> >tubeless -- or is it just imaginary?
> >
> >Bill "if I google it I'll just get 'tubless' ;-)" S.

> Python, Python, Python. I put on a mosquito when it got moist in the spring, but as soon as it
> dried out somewhat, the Python went right back on. Pythons rock in all conditions, IMO.
>
> The Crossmax, boutique as they may be, sure have been running strong for, quite literally,
> thousands of miles.
>
> Tubeless tires are different from their tubed kin. Better sidewall, a beefier bead are a few
> differences.

Thanks, Anthony. My LBS (well, it's a Performance) has 'em in stock; they'll price-match StuporGo
($28), and most important of all, of course -- the black/grey will go like a dream with my
Switchblade!!! ;-)

Bill "now to start fiddling with little valves & grommets; beats going to the gym" S.

"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
> > for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on
> the
> > light side (and affordable would be nice, too
> >
>
> The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles **** conditions very well...much
> better than the tread pattern would lead you
to
> believe. The only problem you might have with them is AFAIK the widest
they
> come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter" which, to me, starts at
> about 2.3
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/tires/irc_serac_xc_tubeless_front-rear_tire.htm
>
> The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
> horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
> like to be perfectly
round -
> giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still
isn't
> perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house.
The
> roundness usually isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any
> real quibbles with Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.
>
> If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at
35-40
> psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
> tubed tires.
>
> You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
> initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big
volume
> is the only way to go. Some folks use a compressor, but that's like
putting
> on pedals with ChannelLocks.
>
> I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
> equipped with it. But what do I know.

Thanks, Chris. I think I'll give the Pythons a spin first; then maybe try the Seracs (I've been
meaning to check out their regular tires, too)...

Bill "destined to stay w/skinny tires a while longer, apparently" S.

Sorni wrote:

>"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>"Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
>>>So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
>>>for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>light side (and affordable would be nice, too
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles **** conditions very well...much
>>better than the tread pattern would lead you
>>
>>
>to
>
>
>>believe. The only problem you might have with them is AFAIK the widest
>>
>>
>they
>
>
>>come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter" which, to me, starts at
>>about 2.3
>>
>>http://www.cambriabike.com/tires/irc_serac_xc_tubeless_front-rear_tire.htm
>>
>>The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
>>horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
>>like to be perfectly
>>
>>
>round -
>
>
>>giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still
>>
>>
>isn't
>
>
>>perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house.
>>
>>
>The
>
>
>>roundness usually isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any
>>real quibbles with Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.
>>
>>If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at
>>
>>
>35-40
>
>
>>psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
>> tubed tires.
>>
>>You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
>>initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big
>>
>>
>volume
>
>
>>is the only way to go. Some folks use a compressor, but that's like
>>
>>
>putting
>
>
>>on pedals with ChannelLocks.
>>
>>I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
>>equipped with it. But what do I know.
>>
>>
>
>Thanks, Chris. I think I'll give the Pythons a spin first; then maybe try the Seracs (I've been
>meaning to check out their regular tires, too)...
>
>Bill "destined to stay w/skinny tires a while longer, apparently" S.
>
>
>
>
The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.

When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the bead,
and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate it up to
55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and then take it
down to the desired pressure.

Unbeknownst to me, one of the mechanics at the shop put in some True Goo tubelss tire sealant. This
happened right as I swapped all of the parts from the NRS to the Blur. I couldn' figure out why
moving to a new frame prevented air from bleeeding from the tires. ;*) I normally eschew such
sliminess, but it sure did work well...

A

"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
> > for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on
> the
> > light side (and affordable would be nice, too
> >
>
> The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles **** conditions very well...much
> better than the tread pattern would lead you
to
> believe. The only problem you might have with them is AFAIK the widest
they
> come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter" which, to me, starts at
> about 2.3
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/tires/irc_serac_xc_tubeless_front-rear_tire.htm
>
> The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
> horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
> like to be perfectly
round -
> giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still
isn't
> perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house.
The
> roundness usually isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any
> real quibbles with Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.
>
> If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at
35-40
> psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
> tubed tires.
>
> You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
> initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big
volume
> is the only way to go. Some folks use a compressor, but that's like
putting
> on pedals with ChannelLocks.
>
> I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
> equipped with it. But what do I know.
>
> Chris
>
>

I run the tubed version of the Serac and it is absolutely the BEST XC tire I've ever used. With it's
pinch flat resistant casing I get all the advantage of running low pressure without the other
hassles of tubeless. But the tread pattern hooks up great and works in nearly all conditions but
extremely muddy which I try to avoid due to trail damage.

Mike - I'll second Chris's recommendation.

Hello; you'll probably remember me from such posts as "I love tubeless" and "Did I happen to mention
I love tubeless?" I'm to tubeless as Wheeler is to SS.

I currently have Mosquitoes on mine. Amazing grip for its size, those Mosquitoes (I bought a few
when Supergo was selling them for $16). Those
1.85s sure feel a lot bigger than they are.

Panaracers are good too - but I like the traction of the Huchinsons better.

> I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
> equipped with it. But what do I know.

My sentiments exactly.

"Anthony Sloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.
>
> When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
> bead, and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate it
> up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and then
> take it down to the desired pressure.
>

The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even if
it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and USTs can
be a bat rastard to seat in the first place.

Chris

Co2 seems to seat the bead easily, but forget it with a bike pump.

"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Anthony Sloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.
> >
> > When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
> > bead, and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate
> > it up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and
> > then take it down to the desired pressure.
> >
>
> The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even if
> it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and USTs
> can be a bat rastard
to
> seat in the first place.
>
> Chris

"Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
> pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
> big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like
> to find a fatter front tire one of these days.)

You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless MTB tires.

JD

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know,
"boutique"
> > wheels but I got a pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of
their
> > UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a big hurry, as running 'em with
tubes
> > and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like to find a
fatter
> > front tire one of these days.)
>
> You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless
MTB tires.

See, Crazy, WebTV *CAN* quote text!!!

Bill "thought you bought a real 'puter, Freakshow" S.

"Derral" <[email protected]> top-posted in message news:[email protected],
forcing me to cut 'n paste thusly:

> "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Anthony Sloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.
> > >
> > > When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
> > > bead, and then make sure you hold the
wheel
> > > up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate it up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at
> > > all of the pops as the tire settles into the
rim)
> > > and then take it down to the desired pressure.
> > >
> >
> > The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even
> > if it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and
> > USTs can be a bat rastard to seat in the first place.

> Co2 seems to seat the bead easily, but forget it with a bike pump.

Well, after saying I wasn't in any hurry, I bought & installed a pair o' 'thons within an hour of
posting. (Can you say, "O-C-D"?!?)

I followed the directions that came with the wheels (soapy water on inside of rims); I think
slipperying-up the bead as Anthony suggests would have worked better/easier. Had to get a tad
medieval on their (carc)asses, but got 'em on eventually.

Pumped them up to 4 bar (only gentle popping was heard throughout the land) -- let all air out --
then back up to 2. (I run regular tubes @ ~3 bar -- what is that, like 35-40 psi?) Anyway, they SEEM
to be seated properly; will try to remember to double-check before using on trails...

Pythons are very different tread-type than "full knobbies" I'm used to (to which I'm used???); do
you run them both in the > direction, Anthony? I'm tempted to turn the front one around...and yes,
just by reversing the skewer at this point!

Bill "God help me with first flat...in the cold...on a night ride" S.

JD wrote:
> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
>>pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
>>big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like
>>to find a fatter front tire one of these days.)
>
>
> You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless MTB tires.
>
> JD

Sounz liyke anti-hype tew meee.

Tubeless works really well for me, and the Crossmax wheels have taken an absolute beating and held
up quite well.

But, you already know that.

Here.

You can have your pot stirrer back now.

A

--
My hands are full of thorns but I can't quit groping for the rose.

I've never had a problem seating a UST tire with a bike pump.

A

Derral wrote:

>Co2 seems to seat the bead easily, but forget it with a bike pump.
>
>"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>"Anthony Sloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
>>>The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.
>>>
>>>When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
>>>bead, and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate
>>>it up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and
>>>then take it down to the desired pressure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even if
>>it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and USTs
>>can be a bat rastard
>>
>>
>to
>
>
>>seat in the first place.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

I have been running Continental Vertical Pro 2.3 UST front and rear for about a full season now-

Here's my take on them:

- My first impression was that I really noticed the increased feedback you get from the UST
system....this led me to say " it's like taking off the condom!...heh"

-As far as the tire goes, I immediately noticed after really railing some fast, off-camber
singletrack that the increase in volume(2.3) made the tires vulnerable to folding when really
torqueing on the bike. This may also be due to the very fine line of running too little air in the
tires. They perform great when not doing laterally aggressive or side to side torquey movements on
the bike. They hook up better than average on most climbs.

-I have found the Hutchis to be very finicky and high maintenance. I am constantly putting air in
before rides, and depressuring for the descents-and sometimes wondering 'did I take too much out?'
.... I also had to purchase a floor pump due to convenience, and going through 3 UST stems at 10
bucks a pop. They constantly lose air.

-The Vertical Pro 2.3 is a front tire(even though Conti says it can be used for either). I have
refrained from any sort of pavement climbs to save rear tread, but it wears out pretty fast
none the less.

-Final Thought-

Good all around front tire. Poor rear tire.

Makes my bike look "gnarly" according to people I rode with yesterday.

Also, if you are running UST try not to use your hand pump on the system or you could find yourself
buying a new stem(s) soon. Hope this helped....good luck!

Edwards

Anthony Sloan <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> JD wrote:
> > "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >>Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
> >>pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
> >>big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like
> >>to find a fatter front tire one of these days.)
> >
> >
> > You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless MTB tires.
> >
> > JD
>
> Sounz liyke anti-hype tew meee.
>
> Tubeless works really well for me, and the Crossmax wheels have taken an absolute beating and held
> up quite well.
>
> But, you already know that.
>
> Here.
>
> You can have your pot stirrer back now.

Thanks, I saw some **** stuck to the side that needs to be stirred into the rest of the mess.

You call it like you see it and I shall as I do.

JD

JD wrote:

>
>You call it like you see it and I shall as I do.
>
>JD
>
>
Yepper.

Tell us again how many miles you have put on a set of tubeless wheels/tires?

?

ANSWER THE QUESTION, CLAIRE!!!!!

;*)

A

From: Anthony Sloan <[email protected]> Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike Subject: Re: UST tire
recommendations? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:25:30 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews,
http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <[email protected]>

JD wrote:

>
>You call it like you see it and I shall as I do.
>
>JD
>
>
Yepper.

Tell us again how many miles you have put on a set of tubeless wheels/tires?

Well now, how the hell would I know how many miles? I don't use a "computer" or other gimmicky ****
on my bikes. Anyone who ever reads this NG knows that.

I did use a set for two weeks as a demo, using Hutchinson Pythons, as well as Michelins (I think, it
was such a forgettable experience). The tires selection is still **** compared to tube tires. I
flatted once and it was a pain in the ass to fix, even after the Mavic people had given a full
instruction course to the OTE staff that I also attended.

The wheels sucked, plain and simple. The spokes had to be retensioned twice in that period. ****
wheelbuilds are **** and good handbuilt wheels can't be beat by gimmicky ****. This was especially
frightening since I was taking it easy on the wheelset (I didn't want to feel obligated to owing for
something I broke and didn't like) by riding them mostly in the Bookcliffs.

There, **** is **** to me. Gain about 100 lbs, ride some technical, then come back and tell us how
great that lightweight gimmick junk is.

JD you owe me $1