Chain Maintenance

anagotja-<< Ideas & Best Results for getting hi performance out of your
chain... >><BR><BR>

Keep it and the cogs, rings, pulleys clean. Connect the chain with a snap link,
take all above off regularly to clean, lube, ride the next day.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 07:30:07 GMT, angotja
<[email protected]> may have said:

>Ideas & Best Results for getting hi performance out of your chain...

Performance is in the rider, not the chain.

Did you mean to ask about durability? Then follow the manufacturer's
recommendations.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 07:30:07 GMT, angotja <usenet-
> [email protected]> may have said:
> Performance is in the rider, not the chain.
> Did you mean to ask about durability? Then follow the manufacturer's
> recommendations.



W/respect, of course I mean durability (I wasn't aware that
'performance' had such a specific connotation). I know there are a
couple of schools of thought on this issue, and I thought it might be
interesting/beneficial to see a discussion on this subject.

I generally just wipe it clean and re-lube. If it is heavily soiled, I
will use a solvent and some q-tips to clean it up as best I can, then
re-lube & ride. I lube on a weekly/75 mi schedule, and clean as needed.

I am interested to learn the techniques of others...



--

If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that chain
unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace the one you
removed. Existing pins have a peaned end and removing and replacing will
weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak
from experience. By using a thinner or petrol solvent bath, you are washing
away all the existing internal lubricant from the chain rollers and can
cause rust to start and thusly also weakening the chain..

Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line chain cleaner
gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well without completely stripping the
chain. You don't need to be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously
recoat the chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the jockey
wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

Chris
2200 Trek

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:47:30 GMT, angotja
<[email protected]> may have said:

>I generally just wipe it clean and re-lube. If it is heavily soiled, I
>will use a solvent and some q-tips to clean it up as best I can, then
>re-lube & ride. I lube on a weekly/75 mi schedule, and clean as needed.
>
>I am interested to learn the techniques of others...

As noted in another thread just a few topics above this one (and in
countless others over the years), chain lube rituals are as varied as
the people performing them. Results seem to be just as varied. The
recommendation from SRAM for their chains is a wipe/relube regimen
using no solvents or degreasers. Shimano's recommendations for their
9-speed HG53 chain only advise that detergents used must be neutral;
Shimano sells a chain lube product, which SRAM does not. Campy
recommends that chains be cleaned on the bike using a brush or cloth
saturated with a suitable detergent or degreaser prior to
relubrication with their chain lube product. I don't know what KMC
recommends. From what I can see, though, none of the chain makers
advise removal of the chain for cleaning. There is a school of
thought which holds that the makers are providing only a minimum and
not an absolute spec in their recommendations, but as with everything
else about chain lubrication, opinions vary.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Which is your school of thought?



--

angotja wrote:
> Which is your school of thought?

Our Lady of Perpetual Amazement.

Bill "at certain posters, that is" S.

Chris H wrote:

> If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that
> chain unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace
> the one you removed.

Either that, or get a master link from Craig, SRAM, or KMC. The KMC one is like
$2.50 -- well worth it. You won't have to deal with this issue again.

> Existing pins have a peaned end and removing
> and replacing will weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to
> break the chain. I speak from experience.

Yup. You could go for months or years with no problems, but then one day...

> By using a thinner or
> petrol solvent bath, you are washing away all the existing internal
> lubricant from the chain rollers and can cause rust to start and
> thusly also weakening the chain..

You can't wash away the dirt without washing away the lube. But that's why you
relube.

> Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line chain
> cleaner gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well without completely
> stripping the chain. You don't need to be cleaning it that much!!!

Chain cleaners work fine, but take a long time to do a good job. You really
have to keep changing the fluid until it runs clear -- otherwise you're not
doing any good. This takes many fluid changes, and a lot of time, and it's a
pain. Also, if you're using bio degreaser, make sure you wash it all off with
water afterward.

BTDT.

Chain cleaners are an OK idea, but they really need a much larger fluid
reservior. As yet, no one has marketed a really good design.

> Then generously recoat the chain with chain lube, wipe excess off,
> clean and oil the jockey wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take
> more than 10 minutes.

It shouldn't take that long, total.

My method, these days:

Use parts cleaner can, available in any auto parts store, for under $10. This
is like a large paint can, filled with solvent, with a parts washer basket
inside.

When cleaning the bike, first remove the chain and drop it in the parts cleaner.
Swish it around in the fluid with a big screwdriver. Proceed to clean the rest
of the bike. Every so often, give the chain another swish, and lift the basket
to let the fluid and dirt drain away. Continue cleaning the bike. When you're
done, remove the chain from the parts cleaner, rinse it out with water, and put
it back on the bike. Relube when it's dry. Total time spent handling the
chain -- about 2 minutes. The dirt, oil, and cleaning fluid remains in the can,
which can be reused for years, without polluting anything.

Again, the best method is probably an ultrasonic parts cleaner. I've seen
suitable ones selling on eBay for under $100 -- well worth it for a lifetime
cyclist. It would pay for itself in 2-3 years.

Matt O.

Werehatrack wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:47:30 GMT, angotja
> <[email protected]> may have said:
>
>> I generally just wipe it clean and re-lube. If it is heavily soiled,
>> I will use a solvent and some q-tips to clean it up as best I can,
>> then re-lube & ride. I lube on a weekly/75 mi schedule, and clean as
>> needed.
>>
>> I am interested to learn the techniques of others...
>
> As noted in another thread just a few topics above this one (and in
> countless others over the years), chain lube rituals are as varied as
> the people performing them. Results seem to be just as varied. The
> recommendation from SRAM for their chains is a wipe/relube regimen
> using no solvents or degreasers. Shimano's recommendations for their
> 9-speed HG53 chain only advise that detergents used must be neutral;
> Shimano sells a chain lube product, which SRAM does not. Campy
> recommends that chains be cleaned on the bike using a brush or cloth
> saturated with a suitable detergent or degreaser prior to
> relubrication with their chain lube product. I don't know what KMC
> recommends. From what I can see, though, none of the chain makers
> advise removal of the chain for cleaning. There is a school of
> thought which holds that the makers are providing only a minimum and
> not an absolute spec in their recommendations, but as with everything
> else about chain lubrication, opinions vary.

Forget all this "schools of thought" ****. This is basic mechanics and
mechanical practice. There is no mystical knowledge to be had from chain
manufacturers, who, remember, are in the business of selling chains (at an
overpriced rate, too).

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole wrote:
> Again, the best method [of cleaning a chain] is probably an ultrasonic parts
> cleaner.

I can't argue with that.

> I've seen
> suitable ones selling on eBay for under $100 -- well worth it for a lifetime
> cyclist. It would pay for itself in 2-3 years.

How do you figure? What costs will be saved by using a chain cleaner?

I like to spend $$$ on tools as much as the next tech-nerd. And I think
an ultrasonic cleaner would be handy on many occaions. But I can't see
the justification for an ultrasonic cleaner.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

dvt wrote:

> Matt O'Toole wrote:

>> Again, the best method [of cleaning a chain] is probably an
>> ultrasonic parts
> > cleaner.
>
> I can't argue with that.
>
> > I've seen
>> suitable ones selling on eBay for under $100 -- well worth it for a
>> lifetime cyclist. It would pay for itself in 2-3 years.
>
> How do you figure? What costs will be saved by using a chain cleaner?
>
> I like to spend $$$ on tools as much as the next tech-nerd. And I
> think an ultrasonic cleaner would be handy on many occaions. But I
> can't see the justification for an ultrasonic cleaner.

Well, if you go through 3-4 $20 chains a year like I do -- you can cut this
chain consumption by 2/3, in addition to the convenience and time savings. You
can also use it for other stuff, and share with your bike-riding neighbors.

Matt O.

I'd like a ultrasonic cleaner but my 15,000 mile (~3 years) per 240-link
chain hardly justifies it then.


"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| dvt wrote:
|
| >|
| Well, if you go through 3-4 $20 chains a year like I do -- you can cut
this
| chain consumption by 2/3, in addition to the convenience and time savings.
You
| can also use it for other stuff, and share with your bike-riding
neighbors.
|
| Matt O.
|
|

Doug Huffman wrote:

> I'd like a ultrasonic cleaner but my 15,000 mile (~3 years) per
> 240-link chain hardly justifies it then.

If you're getting that kind of mileage, you're definately doing something right!

Matt O.

In article <[email protected]>, angotja
<[email protected]> writes:

>Ideas & Best Results for getting hi performance out of your chain..

I posted the results of cleaning two halves ot the same chain with the two main
methods (completely cleaning out by trashing the chain in solvent for one and a
careful wiping of the outside of the chain with a rag with WC-40 and then with
a dry tooth brush for the other) and then by lubricating both in exactly the
same way. I measured the chain halves after cleaning and kept doing it until
one of them hit 1/16 elongation. The chain half that was solvent thrashed
reached 1/16 before the other half. I still have my original post if you wish
to see it.

My best guess for why is that there is lubrication that remains deep within the
chain when one doesn't "solvent thrash" the chain.

I quit "solvent thrashing" my chains.

Want to buy some used paint thinner?

Tom Gibb <[email protected]>

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 06:30:37 GMT, angotja
<[email protected]> may have said:

>Which is your school of thought?

Why waste time contemplating the inscrutable when you've got clear,
unambiguous information from the people who made the item? If it's
not broke, don't fix it; if the manufacturer's instructions didn't
work for me, I'd have to figure out something else. That's not the
case, so I don't.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:02:41 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]>
may have said:

>Forget all this "schools of thought" ****. This is basic mechanics and
>mechanical practice. There is no mystical knowledge to be had from chain
>manufacturers, who, remember, are in the business of selling chains (at an
>overpriced rate, too).

And the people who sell expensive chain lubes and cleaning widgets
have no interest in increasing the amount of effort and expense
invested in a task that ordinarily is quick and cheap if the
instructions of the item's manufacturer are followed?

Everyone in the supply side can be accused of distortion in
furtherance of a vested interest, but chasing that chimera merely for
the sake of paranoia is a fool's errand in my opinion.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that chain
>unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace the one you
>removed. Existing pins have a peaned end and removing and replacing will
>weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak
>from experience.

Many chains now come with a quick disconnect link that makes it very easy
to take your chain off to clean it.


>By using a thinner or petrol solvent bath, you are washing
>away all the existing internal lubricant from the chain rollers and can
>cause rust to start and thusly also weakening the chain..

I've never had this problem. I rotate through two chains and at times
one chain will sit solvent for a month with no ill effects. No rust ever.

>Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line chain cleaner
>gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well without completely stripping the
>chain. You don't need to be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously
>recoat the chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the jockey
>wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

These devices do an ok job at cleaning the outside of the chain. You
want to clean the inside of the chain. That is where all the wear occurs.
The outside of the chain is really unimporant. It only matters if you want
to keep your clothes/leg clean.
----------------
Alex

[email protected] (TBGibb) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
--
> My best guess for why is that there is lubrication that remains deep within the
chain when one doesn't "solvent thrash" the chain.
>
>--
> Tom Gibb <[email protected]>

Right-O, solvent stay inna chain and further lube is trashed.

But what the heck, some folks boil their gunky guitar strings too...

ST

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:24:47 -0400, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>>If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that chain
>>unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace the one you
>>removed. Existing pins have a peaned end and removing and replacing will
>>weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak
>>from experience.
>

As someone who unwittingly removed a fairly new Campag C9 chain from
his road bike to clean it and then simply replaced it using the
existing pin I was concerned to read this warning. I took my bike to
my LBS quite prepared to replace the chain but, after subjecting the
drive train to some stress, his view was that the chain was safe to
use and no replacement was necessary.
I'd be interested in any comments on that opinion.What is the risk of
this chain breaking under normal riding conditions? While I'm not
keen to test my teeth against my handlebars or the road, where I live,
chains, and Campag in particular, are relatively expensive items to
buy

Thanks