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Bush or Kerry or ??? - Page 6

post #76 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by limerickman
Bush's foreign policy failures :

1.Capturing BinLaden : failed
2.Capturing Mullah Omar : failed
3.Creating Democracy in Afghanistan : failed
4.Creating Deocracy in Iraq : failed.
5. Acting on reliable intelligence reports prior to 11th September
2001 : failed.

Other notable Bush policy errors :
Anatagonised the majority of EU nations - ignored or vetoed the UN - ignored or vetoed the Kyoto Treaty

Bush's economic policy :
1 :The value of the US Dollar has fallen by 35% since 2000.
2 : Nasdaq and Dow Jones indexes have collapsed against their
2000 values (DOW JONES was trading at above 10k and the
Nasdaq was above 4k).
3 : US budget 2000 showed the USA in surplus to 200 billion
US budget deficit at April 2004 is 500 billion dollars and
growing.
4 : US employment actually contracted in the years 2001 - 2003.
Antagonizing the UN and the EU, who either hate America or are insanely jealous of our wealth and power? Who gives a rat's patoot about a bunch of third-world never-wases and a European Continent filled with has-beens like Germany and France who are jealous of our position in the world.

The economy is booming, unemployment is lower today than it was in the 1970's, 1980's, or 1990's. Even the much maligned manufacturing segment is taking off. In case you haven't noticed, the market is above 10,000 and the NASDAQ is also up, rebounding from the tech-bubble bursting in the late 1990's, the recession that started under Clinton's policies, and 9-11. Were not for the tax cuts, Clinton's recession would be continuing today.

The dollar was intentionally depressed to make U.S. goods cheaper on foreign markets, making them more appealing and easier to sell. No big deal.

In fact, none of your charges are anything worth bothering about. Bin Laden and Omar are non-issues. Democracy cannot be built in a day so your charges about Afghanistan and Iraq are simple-minded at best.

The intelligence about WMD was correct. 100% correct. In case you have had your head stuck in the sand, and from your wild pronouncements and yammering, it is obvious you have, check out some of the reporting by Syrians and Israelis that know exactly where Saddam's biological and chemical WMDs are buried in Syria.

All in all, limerickman, your response teeters between the pathetic and the laughable.
post #77 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by Babbar
Antagonizing the UN and the EU, who either hate America or are insanely jealous of our wealth and power? Who gives a rat's patoot about a bunch of third-world never-wases and a European Continent filled with has-beens like Germany and France who are jealous of our position in the world.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And you guys wonder why so many people dislike America. If you look up the word arogant in a dictionary in the future you may well see Babbars post as the definition.
post #78 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by Fixey
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And you guys wonder why so many people dislike America. If you look up the word arogant in a dictionary in the future you may well see Babbars post as the definition.
I prefer the term `Ethnocentric`....has a kinda flair to it...
post #79 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by zapper


But it is really sickening that those criminals are getting so much press and innocent civilians that are slowly executed or murdered do not...

A
What court where these "Criminals" convicted Zapper? The American government seems to have forgot about that innocent till proven quilty thing lately. BTW the family of the American who had his head sawn off had to take legal action against the American Military for illegaly detaining him. They have been qouted on CNN as blameing the US military for his death.
post #80 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by ejglows
I prefer the term `Ethnocentric`....has a kinda flair to it...
LMFAO good call
post #81 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by Fixey
What court where these "Criminals" convicted Zapper? The American government seems to have forgot about that innocent till proven quilty thing lately. BTW the family of the American who had his head sawn off had to take legal action against the American Military for illegaly detaining him. They have been qouted on CNN as blameing the US military for his death.
You call us Arogant, but you people are really pathetic...You call Babaars post Arogant??? Not at all, he is probably like most of us Americans..At least like 99% that I know...We grow tired of your insane scrutiny and one sided coverage and point of view. Really interesting that Limerickman in particular, takes such interest in our country...I'm amused!

Fixey, fair question as always from you thus far..I think I've tried to be honest and uprfront with you and the rest of the anti-bush/american clan... But if you must, ok..But because Babaar or I do not give in to your point of view..we are arrogant at the very least...I thought we were all adults here but apparently, you people come into a forum called "bloody soapbox" then whine about how those of us who have another point of view, express ourselves.. TYPICAL OF THE REAL WORLD...

Court? Uh....What court you ask?..Well, let's see..When you are being fired upon and you go in and people surrender and have weapons in their possession...Now we must take them to court?

I see it now, the war of the future..."Pardon me mr./ms Soldier/enemy combatant person, instead of shooting you, I would like to invite you to a trial and if you can't afford an attorney, one will be provided for you....PLEASE!

As far as Mr. Bergs death, lets make one thing clear! President Bush was not hiding behind those masks...Bin Laden's associates were...THEY WERE TO BLAME AND NO ONE ELSE!!!!!

As far as the family, THEY HAVE A RIGHT to blame whomever they want! I will not comment on anything his family does...They have to deal with the loss however they feel comfortable.
post #82 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by Babbar
Antagonizing the UN and the EU, who either hate America or are insanely jealous of our wealth and power? Who gives a rat's patoot about a bunch of third-world never-wases and a European Continent filled with has-beens like Germany and France who are jealous of our position in the world.

The economy is booming, unemployment is lower today than it was in the 1970's, 1980's, or 1990's. Even the much maligned manufacturing segment is taking off. In case you haven't noticed, the market is above 10,000 and the NASDAQ is also up, rebounding from the tech-bubble bursting in the late 1990's, the recession that started under Clinton's policies, and 9-11. Were not for the tax cuts, Clinton's recession would be continuing today.

The dollar was intentionally depressed to make U.S. goods cheaper on foreign markets, making them more appealing and easier to sell. No big deal.

In fact, none of your charges are anything worth bothering about. Bin Laden and Omar are non-issues. Democracy cannot be built in a day so your charges about Afghanistan and Iraq are simple-minded at best.

The intelligence about WMD was correct. 100% correct. In case you have had your head stuck in the sand, and from your wild pronouncements and yammering, it is obvious you have, check out some of the reporting by Syrians and Israelis that know exactly where Saddam's biological and chemical WMDs are buried in Syria.

All in all, limerickman, your response teeters between the pathetic and the laughable.
Limerickman : Ah, our cold warrior friend is back on line.
First of all, Barbbar, you only have to push the submit reply button once – not twice !
The same reply has been posted TWICE (on pages 5 & 6 of this thread).
I know you older folk living in the Nixon era ain’t used to technology, but believe me it works.
You only have to submit your reply once – for it to be published.

let’s now look at the latest set of exaggerations, which you have posted.
You contend that your economy is performing well.
Statistical evidence contradicts your opinion that your economy is in fact in good shape.
Let me refer you to the Economist March 2004 : “the US economy is in a perilous
state at present. We feel that the policy of tax cuts is not the solution to the current
woes of the US economy. Tax cuts are normally the fallback position when other measures taken to stimulate an economy do not work.
Aligning tax cuts with a deliberate policy of devaluing the dollar is a very risky move.
It is obvious that this government feel that they can boost their economy by trying to generate more service sector spending.
However, this only works when job security and job creation forecasts give people the comfort to spend willingly. This is not the case at present.
The rate of job loss in the US economy is very high – particularly in the IT sector where large amounts of jobs have been transferred to lower cost countries such as
India and South East Asia” Hans Mettling : OECD Official.

You quote that the stockmarket is above 10,000.
The Dow Jones has indeed gone above 10,000 points (as of today) for the first time in a long time.
The NasDaq is currently trading in the low 1,900’s – a whopping 3,000 lower than it’s all time high.
You see Barbbar, markets move up and down : the Dow Jones has been seriously devalued against it’s value in the late 1990’s.
In cumulative terms, the Dow Jones, in value terms, is 30% lower in value for the period 2000-20004, compared to 1996-2000.
Of the 1400 days or so of the Clinton Presidency, the Dow Jones index exceeded the 10,000 point mark for 1125 days.
The Bush Presidency the Dow Jones index has only exceeded the 10,000 point limit for – wait for it – 321 days !
Throw in on top of that, the current US budget deficit : in 2000, the USA had a surplus of $200 billion.
The latest data shows the US deficit to be $500 billion and counting.
This is the highest budget deficit in history.
To service this level of debt, each American will be forced to pay higher taxes in order to repay the debt.
Gross Domestic Product (the measure of the value of goods and services manufactured within the USA) is also down, even after factoring in the lower international dollar exchange rate.
All of this data indicates to me that the US economy is far from being healthy.

You also contend that BinLaden and Omar are not an issue.
This is a very surprising statement to make in light of the amount of money and time that your country has taken in trying to capture these people.
Throw in also how much money BinLaden and Omar have cost your country (military wages and costs, security costs at airports and airlines, insurance and re-insurance costs following the 2001 Trade center attacks, the cost for five days in which your whole economy was effectively shut down after the Trade center attacks, the cost of increasing security at all your national and foreign government buildings etc).
How many billions of dollars have these two cost your country, Barbbar ?
These two have cost your country dearly.
Two third world neverwases !

You state that Germany and France are jealous of your country.
Once again you exaggerate.
In economic terms, it’s a no brainer (although for you, I’d better take the time to explain it).
In comparing France and/or Germany to the USA, you fail to think that you are comparing a continent (USA) to individual countries.
In economic terms, you’re attempting to compare, apples with oranges.

Politically, Germany and France as part of the EU, have been against this illegal war.
The EU opposed the US invasion of Iraq.
The EU stated the Iraq never posed a threat.
The EU tried to urge Bush not to invade Iraq.
Who in their right mind could be jealous of a country which purports to be “liberating” a nation, yet ends up going to war with the very people they said they say they purport to liberate ?

Bush has sacrificed the good name and credibility of the USA on the altar of expediency.
Jealous of America – certainly not.
We despair for those Americans who have been shamed by the policy of the Bush government.

You also state that the WMD’s that the intelligence about WMD was 100% correct.
But Colin Powell stated to the UN in February 2002 that Hussein had WMD in Iraq !
Colin Powell produced photographs of mobile WMD’s !
Colin Powell’s evidence was later proven to be doctored !
Is this the intelligence that was 100% correct ?
Or is there another piece of intelligence that is 100% correct ?
Wait a second !
The USA has been occupying Iraq since MARCH 2003 – 14 MONTHS ; AND IT STILL HASN’T FOUND ANY WMD’s.
What part of the intelligence is missing here, Barbbar – because I’m getting confused now.
Your country has had unfettered access to all of Iraq and not a single solitary find of Uranium has been uncovered !
Not one ounce of Uranium !
(I know you’re in the slow lane – so I’ll explain it for you – you see Uranium is the constituent element that goes in to the making of nuclear weapons or WMD :
Uranium 235 and 238 give off radiation which can be detected for years)
So it’s now all buried somewhere and the Israeli’s and the Syrians know where it’s hidden, according to you.
If the Israeli’s know where it is – why haven’t they told the USA ?
Why ?
Because I tell you why.
Your statement is about WMD is a lie.
Another lie to go with all of the rest of the lies promulgated in the illegal war in Iraq.

One final point, when you post messages making generalizations – have some data to back them up !
Throughout this reply, I have referred to names and data and dates – all of which are freely available data if you take the time to read and inquire about a subject.
Try backing up your argument with information, instead of shrill pronouncements.
None of your posts to the Forum have data supplied with them.

And I would also suggest that you refrain from making exaggerated statements like
“quote Barbbar : who either hate America or are insanely jealous of our wealth and power”
These type of statements are frankly ridiculous.
No one that I know hates America or is jealous of America.
People dislike/hate Bush and his policies but they certainly don’t tar all Americans because of what Bush and his discredited government are doing.
People I know do not make sweeping generalizations like you appear to do.
post #83 of 1671
The reason why I am taking an interest in the US and it’s foreign policy is that it is important that the US government in particular, and all governments, act on the wishes of the people who they claim to represent.

I do not believe that most Americans support the war in Iraq.
I do not believe that the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent systematic torture and humiliation of Iraqi’s, represents the wishes of the American people.
In fact, I know of a large amount of Americans who are, quite frankly, shocked, dismayed, embarrassed that crimes are being committed in their name, by the forces of the US government in Iraq and Guantenemo.

In this age of mass, instant communication, the activities of all governments invoke more closer scrutiny.
This is a good thing.
It is important, in this instance, for the american people to see the crimes that are being committed in their name, by their government , in other countries.
It helps to make them realise perhaps, that their governments actions are crimes and it might just inspire them to think that if their own government are acting this way abroad, what’s to stop them acting this way within the USA ?

This is what democracy is all about – freedom, openness and transparency.
Withholding information, or trying to hide crimes, is what Saddam Hussein and other dictators do.

I listen to the expedient excuses given by a disingenuous Bush government throughout this illegal war.
I then see those lies being exposed by brave American people – such as the soldier who handed up the tapes, of systematic torture at Abu Ghuraib prison, on the 13th January 2004.
I watch to see if the Bush government can uncover the WMD’s which they lied about.
I watch to see if the Bush government can uncover any
connection between Hussein and Al Quaeda.
The occupation of Iraq is now 14 months in duration : and still no evidence on any issue for the invasion of Iraq, has been proffered by Bush or his government.
The Bush government told the American public and the international community in the
12 months preceding it’s invasion of Iraq in March 2003, that it had “substantive evidence” which required it (USA) to invade Iraq.
Not one scintilla of evidence has ever been produced.

It is in everyones interest that the Bush government lies are exposed : most especially for those people who have to live in America !
post #84 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by limerickman
Limerickman : Ah, our cold warrior friend is back on line.
First of all, Barbbar, you only have to push the submit reply button once – not twice !
The same reply has been posted TWICE (on pages 5 & 6 of this thread).
I know you older folk living in the Nixon era ain’t used to technology, but believe me it works.
You only have to submit your reply once – for it to be published.


You state that Germany and France are jealous of your country.
Once again you exaggerate.
In economic terms, it’s a no brainer (although for you, I’d better take the time to explain it).
In comparing France and/or Germany to the USA, you fail to think that you are comparing a continent (USA) to individual countries.
In economic terms, you’re attempting to compare, apples with oranges.
.
Ah Limerickman our "informed" translantic correspondent. Hey Einstein prior to lecturing Babaar on the intracies of submitting a post, why don't you take a geography lesson 007! The United States of America is not a Continent "North America" is.....unless some tectonic plates have shifted that I'm not aware of...

Further, have you got anything better to do than cut and past a bunch of articles taken out of context... Oh, that's right, you are that media guy who has his fingers on the pulse of the world...

Comparing to Clinton era to Bush, now you have your apples to oranges scenario...9/11! I've said it before. If your country had suffered a catastophy that effected travel, fuel, of that magnatude etc...you would be typing your post on an IBM selecta III right now.

So, don't waste our time with novel like posts with misleading information attached to it, it is a waste of time. There is not a person that I know that thinks our economy is failing. So, we'll just have to live here in the squalor...maybe you can send your donations to me...I'll give you a post office box. I'm sure babaar will give you his as well....we are so poor..............
post #85 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by ejglows
I prefer the term `Ethnocentric`....has a kinda flair to it...
uh, thats not how you spell anthropolgy....Must be a typo!
post #86 of 1671
One of the forum members has a great little quote as her sig:

Constructive, Internet, Argument.

Pick any two.
post #87 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by less'go
One of the forum members has a great little quote as her sig:

Constructive, Internet, Argument.

Pick any two.
Cute......
post #88 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by zapper
Cute......
True.
post #89 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by Saucy
I'm really getting sick of reading this kind of ****. Its one thing to make your point and disagree but is it really necessary to be so rude and condescending?


Rude and condescending? When someone makes an incredibly ignorant statement without foundation like "Anyone but Bush" to call it anything but an incredibly ignorant statement would be a lie.

Quote:
Saucy

This tone become so rampant that I don't even bother posting in these political threads due to certain posters (zapper and babbar) that frequent them and attack other posters by writing stuff like this.
When someone points out the truth of another's incredibly ignorant statements, it is not an "attack," it is a discussion. Of course, the other side of the coin, when someone says something untoward about a conservative politician or a conservative poster, it seems to be perfectly acceptable. Hypocrisy, they name is leftist Democrat.

Quote:
Saucy
Why is it that the pro-bush posters seem to feel that they have to be abusive to other posters in order to make their point? Everyone else is making their arguments without attacking other posters, why cant you?
What you call "abusive" in a post by a conservative you ignore or praise when similar or worse is posted by a leftist. Hypocrisy, thy name is Saucy.

[/QUOTE]Saucy
I am interested in peoples thoughts on these subjects but reading stuff like this is not only offensive (moderators where are you ?) but its also embarassing to all Americans everywhere.
[/QUOTE]

Thoughts? I gave the poster who said "anyone but Bush" a chance to explain his position or to correct the ignorance it displayed, yet he demured. You are attacking me for doing nothing more than pointing out that another leftist had stuck his foot in his mouth and was munching away on his own ignorance. If you can't take the heat, why are you here?

p.s. That is known as a rhetorical question, which requires no answer. Since you are adding nothing whatsoever to the discussion, it is best to keep quiet.
post #90 of 1671
Quote:
Originally posted by Fixey
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And you guys wonder why so many people dislike America. If you look up the word arogant in a dictionary in the future you may well see Babbars post as the definition.

"You guys?" It is the leftist scum like Ted Kennedy, idiots like Jimmy Carter, and their brain-dead, lock-step acolytes who wonder why some hate us.

Real Americans, I mean those who truly believe in the Constitution and the unique American culture don't worry about the mental diseases of fanatics.
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