or Connect
Cycling Forums › Forums › Other Stuff › Archives › General health and fitness › Health and nutrition › Health and medical › Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hi Everyone,

Didjyall have a good weekend? Lots of rest and relaxation
and just a little work? I sure hope so!

Listen, if you would, I have a question, both practical and
rhetorical, to present to this ng.

In the last few months I've had the opportunity to receive
my first several massages (about a dozen) from several
massage therapists (4); you're right, each of you is
different and with something different to offer. I sure wish
I had unlimited funds; I'd get a massage twice a day
- once after crawling out of bed and once while I'm crawling
home from work. You guys are great!

I realized something recently, and boy does my head hurt
from thinking about it. Seriously, not a single MT (until
the last one) has gone near my groin muscles: Gracilis,
Adductor Longus, Pectineus, Psoas, Iliopsoas.

So, I gotta ask, is this region off the table for males? Are
you trying to avoid my genital region? Are you trying to
avoid a physiologic response that would embarass the hell
out of me if you did go there? Is there no massage benefit
from working those muscles? What do you do for an athlete
that comes to you with a "pulled groin muscle"?

The MT's I've seen have done some light work in the
insertion area farther down the leg of some of these
muscles, but all have stayed away from the origin of these
muscles, which being from the symphisis pubis (sp?) (in some
cases) is awfully close to the male genital area.

So, what's the deal with these muscles and massage, or the
absence thereof?

Marty
post #2 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Another massage recipient has indicated the lack of
abdominal massage, and I have indicated its importance.
However, since I do sports massage every so often, maybe I
am more sensitized. But don't expect psoas work unless it's
indicated, since most massage tends to be relaxation instead
of true therapeutic, IMO.

Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message
news:tHZpc.49870$GI6.3415@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
. Seriously, not a single MT (until the last one) has gone
near
> my groin muscles: Gracilis, Adductor Longus, Pectineus,
> Psoas, Iliopsoas.
>
> So, I gotta ask, is this region off the table for males?
> Are you trying to avoid my genital region? Are you trying
> to avoid a physiologic response that would embarass the
> hell out of me if you did go there? Is there no massage
> benefit from working those muscles? What do you do for an
> athlete that comes to you with a "pulled groin muscle"?
>
> The MT's I've seen have done some light work in the
> insertion area farther down the leg of some of these
> muscles, but all have stayed away from the origin of these
> muscles, which being from the symphisis pubis (sp?) (in
> some cases) is awfully close to the male genital area.
>
> So, what's the deal with these muscles and massage, or
> the absence
thereof?
>
> Marty
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Tiffany wrote:
> As a female MT I will offer my view point.
>
> If a male is a regular and bring up that he needs those
> areas worked on, I will most definitely. If a man comes in
> for his first massage and that is something he brings up
> immediately, it raises the red flag for me. Red flag
> meaning he might have other intentions. I had a male
> client come in and when asked to circle what hurts/needs
> attention on the medical form, all circles were the groin
> and gluteus area. No, he was FAR from an athlete.
>
> If that is important for you to get massaged, talk to the
> therapist, one whom you have seen already and ask how 'we'
> can comfortably work that area.
>
> Not sure why you refer to the Iliopoas as a groin
> muscle though.
>
> T

Ignorance! I'm lucky I got any of the names right. Are you
telling me I only messed up one? It's been a long time since
I had anatomy.

Your point about the regular status of your male client is
telling. The one MT who did move toward the groin muscles,
and the upper area at that, only did so after I had clearly
established that I don't go to

When it comes to circling areas that need work, it would be
easier for me to circle what doesn't need work!

Marty
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

mossrite wrote:
> HI Tiffany IMO Psoas work is in a "sensitive" are as well
> and although not attached as adductors are, well it
> requires special consent especially working the distal
> attachment at the lesser trochanter (origin/insertion
> techniques). You gotta get your hands in "there" for
> effective treatment. see link:
> http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Iliopsoas.html
>
> Not sure why you refer to the Iliopoas as a groin
> muscle though.
>
>
>
Your link takes us to an illustration that I'd bet money
on is the accurate example of the area my MT tried to
massage. That's not the area that needs work, but the
offer to work that area since I'm a "trusted" client, is
what made me think about the lack of work done in the
gracilis origin etc area.

That brings up another question, sort of. These groin
muscles are like steel cables to the touch with even the
slightest "stretch" taking place. Is this normal or is one
of the reasons I have such poor flexibility?

Marty
post #5 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

LOL, we are learning to work on this area right now in
school!! I agree,

uneducated client!! Same with internal windchannels.
"George" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote in message
news:10ahsmohos6b879@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:K20qc.11683$yF6.4593@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > Another massage recipient has indicated the lack of
> > abdominal massage,
and
> I
> > have indicated its importance. However, since I do
> > sports massage every
so
> > often, maybe I am more sensitized. But don't expect
> > psoas work unless
it's
> > indicated, since most massage tends to be relaxation
> > instead of true therapeutic, IMO.
> >
>
> You sure got that one right. I think most clients probably
> wouldn't come back if you spent the hour doing deep work
> on the scalenes and psoas!
(Two
> areas I need most often.) I had massage done for over 5
> years (trying different therapists) for the same problem
> (also saw an MD and a chiropractor for it) UNTIL I finally
> ran across a massage therapist who
went
> right to the problem area (psoas) and fixed the problem
> for me for several YEARS.
>
> In reference to a couple of the other posters on this
> thread: If you do

> mind!!! <VBG> It is hardly relaxing or likely to "set the
> mood", so to speak.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

douglas wrote:
> Just my two cents..
>
> Try an A.R.T. ( Active Release ) Have the patient lying
> supine, locate the anterior superior iliac crest(spine).
> Have the patient bring thier knee up while keeping the
> foot flat on the table.
>
> When the patient brings the knee up you will feel the two
> muscles (iliacus and psoas) get taught. Apply a digital
> compresion to that band and have the patient lower the leg
> to flat. The patient will feel tight (doing this tech.),
> but it will become easier with repitition,at least 3.
>
> Also, might want to check out the need for Orthotics (leg
> length, fallen arch & pelvic shift).
>
> I treat alot of runners at my clinic and most are
> overpronating on one leg due to a fallen ach in the foot.
>
> G.L,

I've noticed that my left foot is starting to turn outward
when I walk. I think it's compensation for my ruptured
lumbar disk.

The A.R.T. you describe seems like what the MT was trying to
do. I'll bring your description with me next time.

With the previous reply referring to toilet training, I was
afraid of where you might have been headed when you started
with "Active Release!"

Marty
post #7 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

So...just for curiosity, do you happen to have a longer
second toe?

Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message
news:6Jeqc.50063$lu5.16474@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

> That brings up another question, sort of. These groin
> muscles are like steel cables to the touch with even the
> slightest "stretch" taking place. Is this normal or is one
> of the reasons I have such poor flexibility?
>
> Marty
post #8 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

But it does call for an initial trust, especially if it's a
female client and a masseur. Assuming the 'figure of 4' leg
position can cause her to feel rather...exposed. But the
massage relationship is one of trust. If you can't go with
that, better to be flipping hamburgers.

Ed <ulav8tor@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ENRqc.35564$6f5.3607525@attbi_s54...
> LOL, we are learning to work on this area right now in
> school!! I agree,

> uneducated client!! Same with internal windchannels.
> "George" <nowhere@newsonly.com> wrote in message
> news:10ahsmohos6b879@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> > message
> > news:K20qc.11683$yF6.4593@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > > Another massage recipient has indicated the lack of
> > > abdominal massage,
> and
> > I
> > > have indicated its importance. However, since I do
> > > sports massage
every
> so
> > > often, maybe I am more sensitized. But don't expect
> > > psoas work unless
> it's
> > > indicated, since most massage tends to be relaxation
> > > instead of true therapeutic, IMO.
> > >
> >
> > You sure got that one right. I think most clients
> > probably wouldn't
come
> > back if you spent the hour doing deep work on the
> > scalenes and psoas!
> (Two
> > areas I need most often.) I had massage done for over 5
> > years (trying different therapists) for the same problem
> > (also saw an MD and a chiropractor for it) UNTIL I
> > finally ran across a massage therapist who
> went
> > right to the problem area (psoas) and fixed the problem
> > for me for
several
> > YEARS.
> >
> > In reference to a couple of the other posters on this
> > thread: If you do

> > mind!!! <VBG> It is hardly relaxing or likely to "set
> > the mood", so to speak.
> >
>
post #9 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

lol just appreciating your sense of humor Marty

mj "Marty Alias" <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message
news:POgqc.68285$S62.27481@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> douglas wrote:
> > Just my two cents..
> >
> > Try an A.R.T. ( Active Release ) Have the patient lying
> > supine, locate the anterior superior iliac crest(spine).
> > Have the patient bring thier knee up while keeping the
> > foot flat on the table.
> >
> > When the patient brings the knee up you will feel the
> > two muscles
(iliacus
> > and psoas) get taught. Apply a digital compresion to
> > that band and have the patient lower the
leg
> > to flat. The patient will feel tight (doing this tech.),
> > but it will become
easier
> > with repitition,at least 3.
> >
> > Also, might want to check out the need for Orthotics
> > (leg length, fallen arch & pelvic shift).
> >
> > I treat alot of runners at my clinic and most are
> > overpronating on one
leg
> > due to a fallen ach in the foot.
> >
> > G.L,
>
> I've noticed that my left foot is starting to turn outward
> when I walk. I think it's compensation for my ruptured
> lumbar disk.
>
> The A.R.T. you describe seems like what the MT was trying
> to do. I'll bring your description with me next time.
>
> With the previous reply referring to toilet training, I
> was afraid of where you might have been headed when you
> started with "Active Release!"
>
> Marty
post #10 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Did they tell you about the significance of the longer
second toe in massage school?

Tiffany <tiffany@blazenet.net> wrote in message
news:10al6hub87n44ee@corp.supernews.com...
> Hey.... I have a longer second toe.
>
> Wait..... longer then what?
>
> T "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> message news:Guwqc.2342$YB6.1619@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> > So...just for curiosity, do you happen to have a longer
> > second toe?
> >
> > Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message ne-
> > ws:6Jeqc.50063$lu5.16474@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > > That brings up another question, sort of. These groin
> > > muscles are like steel cables to the touch with even
> > > the slightest "stretch" taking place. Is this normal
> > > or is one of the reasons I have such poor flexibility?
> > >
> > > Marty
> > >
> >
>
post #11 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

yes. I'm not haulin' out my books tonight but doesn't it
have something to do with collapsed arches.. we were told
it's akin to "skating thru life".. and can cause lower back
trouble eventually.. . tell me more.. I'm all eyes!

Mj (speaking out of turn, sorry Tiff I'm really curious is
all) "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
message news:q9xqc.6280$UH.962@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Did they tell you about the significance of the longer
> second toe in
massage
> school?
>
> Tiffany <tiffany@blazenet.net> wrote in message
> news:10al6hub87n44ee@corp.supernews.com...
> > Hey.... I have a longer second toe.
> >
> > Wait..... longer then what?
> >
> > T "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> > message
> > news:Guwqc.2342$YB6.1619@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> > > So...just for curiosity, do you happen to have a
> > > longer second toe?
> > >
> > > Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:6Jeqc.50063$lu5.16474@newssvr29.news.prodigy.co-
> > > m...
> > >
> > > > That brings up another question, sort of. These
> > > > groin muscles are
like
> > > > steel cables to the touch with even the slightest
> > > > "stretch" taking place. Is this normal or is one of
> > > > the reasons I have such poor flexibility?
> > > >
> > > > Marty
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
post #12 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Refreshing your memory may not be something I can do. Ginko
biloba and Vitamin B Complex might help, though. But I can
remind you of speculation. The longer second toe is called
the "Greek Toe" after the model for Michelangelo's statue of
"David". Foot is like a tripod, with the heel and both ends
of the metatarsal arch being the elements of the base.
Person comes down on the heel, rolls to the front of the
foot, pushes off for the next step with the big toe. (Notice
how I'm using all those technical terms?) But suppose the
second toe is longer than the first. Instead of being a three-
point, it becomes a two-point along the center axis of the
foot, with the second toe having to bear more of the load.
Even if the second toe is exactly as long as the first,
there is more padding on the first. So in order to try to
put the load where it belongs, or to simply take the load
off areas that are ill-suited to it, the foot can be
pronated, etc. So it is nice to check the wear patterns on
the bottom of a person's shoe. Or simply expect to see
callus at the base of the second toe. See a bunion? Big toe
is trying to help. Fallen and widened metatarsal arch to
enhance contact surface, toes bent to enable better downward
pressure, metatarsalgia, etc. But besides all that, in order
to make those things happen, some of the muscles are
probably working overtime. If there are corns, the muscles
along the inner aspect of the leg may well be due for extra
attention. That sort of thing. After all, if you walk on
ice, or have an unsteady stance, you'll also likely be
walking with a more stiff-legged gait. So your hip is going
to have to be doing inappropriate stuff. Reason that high
heels make the wearer's butt movement more prominant, and
the back of the legs will be tight (notice how I kept from
naming those muscles?) So with the hip muscles working
inappropriately, same for the legs, and the feet, don't you
think it would be swell to give the "Longer Second Toe"
person the assumption that from the psoas on down, things
are gonna need a little extra attention? Shucks, anything
south of the navel, fore and aft, gets extra attention
because of it. Now that sounds like something that got
mentioned in school, doesn't it?

Tiffany <tiffany@blazenet.net> wrote in message
news:10alcm09bcor389@corp.supernews.com...
> yeah but I forget. Seriously, I remember talk of it but
> can't for the life of me remember. Refresh my memory.
>
> T "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> message news:q9xqc.6280$UH.962@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > Did they tell you about the significance of the longer
> > second toe in
> massage
> > school?
> >
> > Tiffany <tiffany@blazenet.net> wrote in message
> > news:10al6hub87n44ee@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hey.... I have a longer second toe.
> > >
> > > Wait..... longer then what?
> > >
> > > T "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> > > message
> > > news:Guwqc.2342$YB6.1619@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> > > > So...just for curiosity, do you happen to have a
> > > > longer second toe?
> > > >
> > > > Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:6Jeqc.50063$lu5.16474@newssvr29.news.prodigy.c-
> > > > om...
> > > >
> > > > > That brings up another question, sort of. These
> > > > > groin muscles are
> like
> > > > > steel cables to the touch with even the slightest
> > > > > "stretch" taking place. Is this normal or is one
> > > > > of the reasons I have such poor flexibility?
> > > > >
> > > > > Marty
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
post #13 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Skating through life is an excellent analogy, as my response
to Tiffany indicates. I wish I had read yours before I
responded to hers, as I'd never heard it put quite that way.
I usually use the analogy of walking carefully on ice, but
that seems a rather transient condition, rather than your
description. I like that.

Mj Hess <mjhess@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:10al93reaplh48c@corp.supernews.com...
> yes. I'm not haulin' out my books tonight but doesn't it
> have something
to
> do with collapsed arches.. we were told it's akin to
> "skating thru life".. and can cause lower back trouble
> eventually.. . tell me more.. I'm all
eyes!
>
> Mj (speaking out of turn, sorry Tiff I'm really curious is
> all) "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> message news:q9xqc.6280$UH.962@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > Did they tell you about the significance of the longer
> > second toe in
> massage
> > school?
> >
> > Tiffany <tiffany@blazenet.net> wrote in message
> > news:10al6hub87n44ee@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hey.... I have a longer second toe.
> > >
> > > Wait..... longer then what?
> > >
> > > T "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> > > message
> > > news:Guwqc.2342$YB6.1619@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> > > > So...just for curiosity, do you happen to have a
> > > > longer second toe?
> > > >
> > > > Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:6Jeqc.50063$lu5.16474@newssvr29.news.prodigy.c-
> > > > om...
> > > >
> > > > > That brings up another question, sort of. These
> > > > > groin muscles are
> like
> > > > > steel cables to the touch with even the slightest
> > > > > "stretch" taking place. Is this normal or is one
> > > > > of the reasons I have such poor flexibility?
> > > > >
> > > > > Marty
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
post #14 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Thanks Michael..

yes, we covered that toward the end of our Clinical II
class.. (lower body stuff).. thanks! I loved your
explanation and great info you posted to Tiffany.. I'm gonna
hang onto that.. thanks again!

mj "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
newslzqc.3297$3W1.2334@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Skating through life is an excellent analogy, as my
> response to Tiffany indicates. I wish I had read yours
> before I responded to hers, as I'd
never
> heard it put quite that way. I usually use the analogy
> of walking
carefully
> on ice, but that seems a rather transient condition,
> rather than your description. I like that.
>
> Mj Hess <mjhess@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:10al93reaplh48c@corp.supernews.com...
> > yes. I'm not haulin' out my books tonight but doesn't it
> > have something
> to
> > do with collapsed arches.. we were told it's akin to
> > "skating thru
life"..
> > and can cause lower back trouble eventually.. . tell me
> > more.. I'm all
> eyes!
> >
> > Mj (speaking out of turn, sorry Tiff I'm really curious
> > is all) "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote
> > in message
> > news:q9xqc.6280$UH.962@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > > Did they tell you about the significance of the longer
> > > second toe in
> > massage
> > > school?
> > >
> > > Tiffany <tiffany@blazenet.net> wrote in message
> > > news:10al6hub87n44ee@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Hey.... I have a longer second toe.
> > > >
> > > > Wait..... longer then what?
> > > >
> > > > T "Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> > > > message
> > > > news:Guwqc.2342$YB6.1619@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> > > > > So...just for curiosity, do you happen to have a
> > > > > longer second
toe?
> > > > >
> > > > > Marty Alias <Marty@aliasnospam.com> wrote in
> > > > > message news:6Jeqc.50063$lu5.16474@newssvr29.news-
> > > > > .prodigy.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > > That brings up another question, sort of. These
> > > > > > groin muscles
are
> > like
> > > > > > steel cables to the touch with even the
> > > > > > slightest "stretch"
taking
> > > > > > place. Is this normal or is one of the reasons I
> > > > > > have such poor flexibility?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Marty
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
post #15 of 16

Re: Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!

Yep. And I find it rather amazing that so many people with
low back pain have not had psoas work done, when it has been
clearly indicated. It's as though the MT just kinda blanked
out on that particular phase of the curiculum.

douglas <douglas@justwantfacts.com> wrote in message
news:NFfrc.80329$325.1773380@news20.bellglobal.com...
> It is quite simple to find out if it is indicated.. Do a
> Thomas Test.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Health and medical
Cycling Forums › Forums › Other Stuff › Archives › General health and fitness › Health and nutrition › Health and medical › Groin Muscles and Massage - Apparently Not!