Easy way to calculate grade?

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> writes:

> There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
> should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
> long gone. I've got a bike and myself.

I have discovered a remarkable method involving a shoelace and a thermometer,
unfortunately, this margin is too small to contain it.

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:15:34 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>long gone. I've got a bike and myself.

Dear Phil,

In passing, I described how to use a 5-foot piece of plastic
pipe and an ordinary carpenter's level with a foot ruler to
get a rough grade estimate:

http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&rnum=2

or

http://snipurl.com/8yrh

(www.tinyurl seems to be asleep)

It's just an adaptation of Jobst's earlier post about using
a meter stick to do the same thing. The advantage of the
longer pipe is that using a 50" length reduces measuring
error compared to a 39.4" length, and the pipe can be easily
cut to hold the awkward level and descending ruler more
conveniently.

Carl Fogel

Are the bike computers with an altimeter feature any good? I know that
CatEye offers one. That might be a good way to get some measurements while
staying on the bike.


"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
> should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
> long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training
>
>

On 09 Sep 2004 15:37:43 -0500, [email protected] (Pierre F.)
wrote:

>"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>> should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>> long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>
>I have discovered a remarkable method involving a shoelace and a thermometer,
>unfortunately, this margin is too small to contain it.

Dear Mrs. Fermat,

Your son plays well with others and is doing fine in gym.

Unfortunately, our math teacher says that Pierre still
refuses to show his work.

Unless his attitude changes, we will be unable to promote
him to the second grade.

Sincerely,

Principal Skinner

> http://snipurl.com/8yrh
>
> (www.tinyurl seems to be asleep)

Permanently, I hope. Tiny is slow is longer and whatnot. Plus it doesn't
automatically put the clipboard URL into the URL field. Why would anyone
use tinyurl???
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:15:34 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>long gone. I've got a bike and myself.

Hey Phil,

I would expect that you could find a topo map of that hill online.

Then, you would have information about both the elevation, and the
distance. Divide, and you will have your answer.

If not enough to impress your friends, just add 30%. That's what we do
around here...<bg>

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:43:10 -0400, Kenneth
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:15:34 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>>should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>>long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>
>Hey Phil,
>
>I would expect that you could find a topo map of that hill online.
>
>Then, you would have information about both the elevation, and the
>distance. Divide, and you will have your answer.
>
>If not enough to impress your friends, just add 30%. That's what we do
>around here...<bg>
>
>All the best,

Dear Kenneth,

U.S.
http://www.topozone.com
http://terraserver.microsoft.com


U.K.
http://www.streetmap.co.uk


U.K and Europe and U.S. and Australia and . . .
http://www.multimap.com

Carl Fogel

Phil Lee writes:

>> http://snipurl.com/8yrh

>> (www.tinyurl seems to be asleep)

> Permanently, I hope. Tiny is slow is longer and whatnot. Plus it
> doesn't automatically put the clipboard URL into the URL field. Why
> would anyone use tinyurl???

I suppose it is your ISP or PC that is unable to take advantage of
tinyurl rather than the feature itself. For most users it is entirely
transparent, pasting the huge-url that lies behind the four or five
characters in the tail of tinyurl.

You may not be using the best application to read newsgroups so you
may not be getting some of the benefits. Most people prefer to cut
and paste less than two dozen characters into a web browser than to
capture a multi-line URL for that purpose. On the other hand, MS news
readers may do that for you but then, as you say, they don't work.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:15:34 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>long gone. I've got a bike and myself.

Call the guy at the local public works office and offer him this
really nice bike if he'll tell you what the grade is on that road....
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack wrote:

> Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:
>
> >There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
> >should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
> >long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>
> Call the guy at the local public works office and offer him this
> really nice bike if he'll tell you what the grade is on that road....

You can build a cheap gradiometer in a few minutes using Lucas
Pereira's instructions:

http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~lucasp/bike-grade.html

You'll need a printer and an empty CD case. Scroll down the page for
the instructions.

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Find the biggest gear you can use while standing and without pulling up on
the handlebars. Then compute as follows:

compute the inverse of 4 times the gear ratio.

For example if you can climb in a 42-21 then you get 4 * 42 / 21 = 8, and
1/8 = 0.125 = 12.5%

Why is this a good guess? 4 = 2 * 2,
one 2 is because the crank is about half the radius of the wheel
the other 2 is because you apply force about half the rotation of the
stroke

Then adjust the factor of 4 to suit your style. Perhaps you know a slope of
a steep hill, so try to find the biggest gear you can use.

You could also try to choose a gear that you can balance (speed = zero) with
all your weight on one pedal, and then the slope would be just (radius of
crank)/(radius of wheel)/(gear ratio), or 1/(2*gear ratio). But you would
have to correct for the ratio of your weight (applied to the pedal)/(total
weight including the bike).

Bruce



"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
> should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
> long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training
>
>
>

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:42:24 -0700, Terry Morse
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Werehatrack wrote:
>
>> Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:
>>
>> >There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>> >should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>> >long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>>
>> Call the guy at the local public works office and offer him this
>> really nice bike if he'll tell you what the grade is on that road....
>
>You can build a cheap gradiometer in a few minutes using Lucas
>Pereira's instructions:
>
>http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~lucasp/bike-grade.html
>
>You'll need a printer and an empty CD case. Scroll down the page for
>the instructions.

Dear Terry,

What a clever idea!

Now I have to build one and try not to think about expanding
the idea to a calibrated pendulum bob hanging inside the
frame triangle . . .

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

Bruce Frech wrote:
> Find the biggest gear you can use while standing and without pulling
> up on the handlebars. Then compute as follows:
>
> compute the inverse of 4 times the gear ratio.
>
> For example if you can climb in a 42-21 then you get 4 * 42 / 21 = 8,
> and 1/8 = 0.125 = 12.5%
>
> Why is this a good guess? 4 = 2 * 2,
> one 2 is because the crank is about half the radius of the wheel
> the other 2 is because you apply force about half the rotation of
> the stroke
>
> Then adjust the factor of 4 to suit your style. Perhaps you know a
> slope of a steep hill, so try to find the biggest gear you can use.
>
> You could also try to choose a gear that you can balance (speed =
> zero) with all your weight on one pedal, and then the slope would be
> just (radius of crank)/(radius of wheel)/(gear ratio), or 1/(2*gear
> ratio). But you would have to correct for the ratio of your weight
> (applied to the pedal)/(total weight including the bike).

So (1/(2*gear ratio)) * (my weight/total weight) would be an appropriate
number? I might try both methods and see how close they match.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

In article <[email protected]>, Phil, Squid-in-Training
says...
>
>There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>long gone. I've got a bike and myself.
>

1. There are bubble levels marked with grade that attach to handle bars sold for
this purpose. The cost is about $25. I have never wanted to know that badly.

2. Coast down the hill. Then use one of the several bicycle calculators to solve
for grade given your maximum speed. Mr. Fogel has been using them to question
speed claims in another thread.

[email protected] wrote:

> Phil Lee writes:
>>Permanently, I hope. Tiny is slow is longer and whatnot. Plus it
>>doesn't automatically put the clipboard URL into the URL field. Why
>>would anyone use tinyurl???
>
> I suppose it is your ISP or PC that is unable to take advantage of
> tinyurl rather than the feature itself. For most users it is entirely
> transparent, pasting the huge-url that lies behind the four or five
> characters in the tail of tinyurl.

TinyURL seem to be a victim of their own success. I have noticed some
latency when both encoding and decoding recently.

--
R.

<> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements
<> The tall blond one. always cause trouble."
<> [email protected]

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 21:21:01 -0700, Richard Brockie
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Phil Lee writes:
> >>Permanently, I hope. Tiny is slow is longer and whatnot. Plus it
>>>doesn't automatically put the clipboard URL into the URL field. Why
>>>would anyone use tinyurl???
> >
>> I suppose it is your ISP or PC that is unable to take advantage of
>> tinyurl rather than the feature itself. For most users it is entirely
>> transparent, pasting the huge-url that lies behind the four or five
>> characters in the tail of tinyurl.
>
>TinyURL seem to be a victim of their own success. I have noticed some
>latency when both encoding and decoding recently.

Dear Richard,

Normally, TinyUrl seems to work just fine, but even a few
months ago they occasionally ignored me as calmly as if I
had invited them to have dinner and go to a movie afterward
instead of demanding an instant internet service.

Since they're free, I decided not to sue them.

I was just pleased to have learned of www.snipurl.com, which
seems to offer the same sort of service.

Carl Fogel

"Rhesus Monkey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Are the bike computers with an altimeter feature any good? I know that
> CatEye offers one. That might be a good way to get some measurements while
> staying on the bike.

Only if the altimeter is temperature compensated. If not temp.
compensated, they're just about useless. Some even have a thermometer
function that is not connected to the altimeter. I've never seen a
Casio that is compensated, but then I haven't seen all Casio wrist
altimeters. So far as I know the Avocet wrist model & all Suunto wrist
model, are temp. compensated. I had a Casio that I would set at the
base ski lodge, in the shade. When starting a ride to the top of the
mountain, for a while I would be in the shade. Once above the
timberline it would regularly jump 200 to 400' in elevation in ~2 min.
I would like to believe that I'm really that strong of a climber, but
I don't think so )

John

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:15:34 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>There's a hill nearby whose gradient or whatever I'd like to guess. How
>should I go about it? I don't have any surveying equipment, and my GPS is
>long gone. I've got a bike and myself.

I can find the gradient quite easily with my Polar S710 heart rate
monitor software. I just select the portion of the trip curve that I
am interested in and the gradient appears in a box below the chart.

[email protected] (John McGraw) writes:

> "Rhesus Monkey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Are the bike computers with an altimeter feature any good? I know that
> > CatEye offers one. That might be a good way to get some measurements while
> > staying on the bike.
>
> Only if the altimeter is temperature compensated. If not temp.
> compensated, they're just about useless. Some even have a thermometer
> function that is not connected to the altimeter. I've never seen a
> Casio that is compensated, but then I haven't seen all Casio wrist
> altimeters. So far as I know the Avocet wrist model & all Suunto wrist
> model, are temp. compensated. I had a Casio that I would set at the
> base ski lodge, in the shade. When starting a ride to the top of the
> mountain, for a while I would be in the shade. Once above the
> timberline it would regularly jump 200 to 400' in elevation in ~2 min.
> I would like to believe that I'm really that strong of a climber, but
> I don't think so )

Aren't watch like things strapped to wrists working at a constant
temperature? I thought this was part of the reason why watches
generally keep better time than clocks?