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I was misled

post #1 of 226
Thread Starter 
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #2 of 226

Re: I was misled

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go unobserved
and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a
stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a
matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in
the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation."

John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Bill "fix your user name, Jobst" S.
post #3 of 226

Re: I was misled

"S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote:

>jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227
>
>"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
>obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
>the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go unobserved
>and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a
>stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a
>matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in
>the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation."
>
>John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Jobst is just gullible because he would rather get his
news from biased sources so he doesn't have to confront
the truth.

For example, when Russian President Vladimir Putin recently
told the press how Russia warned us repeatedly that they had
solid evidence that Iraq was planning to attack the US and
US interests abroad after the 9/11 attacks...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3819057.stm

Guess how the major networks in the US handled it? NOT A
FRIGGIN' WORD. The NY Times and other liberal papers buried
the story at the bottom of an inside page.

If you'd rather form an opinion unencumbered by the
facts, by all means follow the links to the propaganda
that Jobst posted.

If you'd rather actually know what's going on, I'd suggest
starting with an unbiased compilation like the Drudge Report
(recently determined to be by far less biased than any other
news source that was analyzed). That becomes pretty obvious
when you see it...

www.drudgereport.com

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame
post #4 of 226

Re: I was misled

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

Wow, maybe I should start posting press releases from the
RNC.

Welcome to my killfile.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com
post #5 of 226

Re: I was misled

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:50:54 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
wrote:

>http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227
>
>Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

I was misled once too.

I went into a shop and bought a wheel that the shopguys
assured me would fit my rear dropout spacing.

It didn't. I was peeved.

This thread will now live forever.

-Luigi
post #6 of 226

Re: I was misled

I was misled into thinking that I was browsing rec.bicycles.misc....oh wait I am browsing the right forum. Shouldn't you be posting to misc.activism.progressive or talk.politics.misc????
post #7 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Bill Sorni writes:

>> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

> "So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
> obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
> the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go
> unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of
> amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This
> is not a matter about which there should be any debate
> whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this
> Nation."

> John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Yes??? And this was in respect to what? This was not a call
to invade Iraq as you can see from the text. It was a call
for the UN intervention and inspections.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #8 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Kevan Smith writes:

>> It has occurred to me, as it should to you, that the
>> intelligence reports which John Kerry was receiving were
>> not of the same quality that George Bush was receiving.
>> Indeed, many if not all of his reports were filtered down
>> through the present administration. Therefore, how can
>> you believe that the remarks of the two men should be
>> considered equally when one is the sitting president and
>> the other is not privy to all of the same information?

> It's not like it matters. Both men are committed to
> continuing the illegal occupation of Iraq, heaping more
> misery on a country which should by rights be getting
> reparations payments instead. Bush shouldn't be President;
> he should be in the dock for war crimes. This Iraq War is
> a great national shame.

A recent political cartoon made that clear showing a burned
out auto wreck, labeled Iraq, with a US soldier giving the
keys to an Iraqi saying "OK, you can drive now." The USA
cannot easily extricate itself from the debacle and there
are no easy solutions to the matter of solving the enormous
problems the willful destruction of that nation has caused.

Well known military documents state that policing a nation
after it capitulates in battle is a task nearly as great as
winning the battle. Under commanders who knew what lay
before them our forces sat idly by as looting and
destruction, as great as that caused by our weapons, went on
for weeks, pretending that this was a great surprise. This
occurred under Donald Rumsfeld who, as I, learned about this
the role of military policing and combat in officer's
training and subsequent service:

http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/rumsfeld.html

Iraqis did not come running out to welcome their liberators
as our nation was told would occur. Those who predicted the
actual outcome were put down as enemy sympathizers and the
like... the whole mess is such a sordid story as we lost the
support of all the nations who came to our cause after
9/11... freedom fries and the like.

Fortunately the American people still have friends in the
world even though our administration is universally hated.
However we could change that too in the upcoming election.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #9 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Scott Johnson writes:

>> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

> Wow, maybe I should start posting press releases from
> the RNC.

What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.
Maybe you could point out where there are errors in this
report. Facts contrary to ones beliefs are often so
disconcerting that they are suppressed.

> Welcome to my killfile.

That is so you won't see what others are saying, I take it.
You need to kill the subject and follow-ups.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #10 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Bill Sorni writes:

>> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

> "So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
> obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
> the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go
> unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of
> amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This
> is not a matter about which there should be any debate
> whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this
> Nation."

> John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Yes??? And this was in respect to what? This was not a call
to invade Iraq as you can see from the text. It was a call
for the UN intervention and inspections.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #11 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Scott Johnson writes:

>> http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1310344&l=42227

> Wow, maybe I should start posting press releases from
> the RNC.

What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.
Maybe you could point out where there are errors in this
report. Facts contrary to ones beliefs are often so
disconcerting that they are suppressed.

> Welcome to my killfile.

That is so you won't see what others are saying, I take it.
You need to kill the subject and follow-ups.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #12 of 226

Re: I was misled

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:18:34 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
wrote:

>What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.

I'm not irritated about factual reporting.

I am mildly irritated that rbm is going to be turned into
yet another front for the US Presidential election.

You've been around on the rec.bicycles.* hierarchy much
longer than I have, so I know you won't take kindly to a
n00b like me reproaching you for posting something so
blatantly off-topic as this. But perhaps there are regular
NG readers who want to talk about bicycles and wish not to
have the ugliness of the present electoral campaign intrude
upon that discussion?

-Luigi

www.livejournal.com/users/ouij photos, rants, raves.
post #13 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Luigi de Guzman writes:

>> What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.

> I'm not irritated about factual reporting.

> I am mildly irritated that rbm is going to be turned into
> yet another front for the US Presidential election.

This like other topics we might choose not to read is each
reader's prerogative to skip or not. Off topic trouble
arises when within a thread someone takes advantage of folks
who are following the subject by introducing another agenda
such as helmets under tire problems. That is not what is
happening here.

> You've been around on the rec.bicycles.* hierarchy much
> longer than I have, so I know you won't take kindly to a
> n00b like me reproaching you for posting something so
> blatantly off-topic as this. But perhaps there are regular
> NG readers who want to talk about bicycles and wish not to
> have the ugliness of the present electoral campaign
> intrude upon that discussion?

Those people who disagree with exposing the lies of this
administration failed to read Orwell's 1984 and do not
recognize Newspeak when the see it.

http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns_frames.html

They believe the American way is so perfect that if our
leader says it, it must be the truth. Even Dan Quayle was
saved by that axiom.

http://www.xmission.com/~mwalker/DQ/

Just remember that GWB had no comment when he was told
Ronald Reagan had died. It took him six hours to get a
script from his mentors before he could give an official
statement at midnight from his trip in Europe. All this
stuff is scripted and filtered. Discussing this in any and
all newsgroups is an urgent matter for the survival of our
nation as a democracy as the hatchet man John Ashcroft hacks
away at civil liberties and international law. The ugly
brutality of our administration is a huge blot on the
nation. If you follow foreign news you could see haw bad we
look in the eyes of the world. BBC news is mild compared to
other continental news sources. I don't know what is being
said in Asia.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #14 of 226
Thread Starter 

Re: I was misled

Luigi de Guzman writes:

>> What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.

> I'm not irritated about factual reporting.

> I am mildly irritated that rbm is going to be turned into
> yet another front for the US Presidential election.

This like other topics we might choose not to read is each
reader's prerogative to skip or not. Off topic trouble
arises when within a thread someone takes advantage of folks
who are following the subject by introducing another agenda
such as helmets under tire problems. That is not what is
happening here.

> You've been around on the rec.bicycles.* hierarchy much
> longer than I have, so I know you won't take kindly to a
> n00b like me reproaching you for posting something so
> blatantly off-topic as this. But perhaps there are regular
> NG readers who want to talk about bicycles and wish not to
> have the ugliness of the present electoral campaign
> intrude upon that discussion?

Those people who disagree with exposing the lies of this
administration failed to read Orwell's 1984 and do not
recognize Newspeak when the see it.

http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns_frames.html

They believe the American way is so perfect that if our
leader says it, it must be the truth. Even Dan Quayle was
saved by that axiom.

http://www.xmission.com/~mwalker/DQ/

Just remember that GWB had no comment when he was told
Ronald Reagan had died. It took him six hours to get a
script from his mentors before he could give an official
statement at midnight from his trip in Europe. All this
stuff is scripted and filtered. Discussing this in any and
all newsgroups is an urgent matter for the survival of our
nation as a democracy as the hatchet man John Ashcroft hacks
away at civil liberties and international law. The ugly
brutality of our administration is a huge blot on the
nation. If you follow foreign news you could see haw bad we
look in the eyes of the world. BBC news is mild compared to
other continental news sources. I don't know what is being
said in Asia.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #15 of 226

Re: I was misled

SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net (JP) wrote:

>My guess is that if Putin did tell Bush something, the
>*whole* story is actually embarassing so Bush can't use it-
>maybe something like, Putin told Bush that Iraq was making
>plans to attack the US with terrorists if we invaded Iraq.

Heh... I can always count on you to brew up new and
increasingly fanciful conspiracy theories...

>> If you'd rather form an opinion unencumbered by the
>> facts, by all means follow the links to the propaganda
>> that Jobst posted.
>
>You wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you in the face.
>Jobst's post references the St. Petersburg Times and San
>Francisco Chronicle, and they reference a response by Tampa
>International Airport to the 9/11 Commission. Jobst's
>article is thoroughly footnoted. There are no holes in it.
>The flight happened.
>
>So stop lying and trying to say it didn't.

So you're saying the St. Pete Times and the SF Chronical
maintain the "daily.misleader.org" website. LOL.

>> If you'd rather actually know what's going on, I'd
>> suggest starting with an unbiased compilation like the
>> Drudge Report (recently determined to be by far less
>> biased than any other news source that was analyzed).
>> That becomes pretty obvious when you see it...
>>
>> www.drudgereport.com
>
>Amazing. Drudge is a rumor-monger. Some times he is right,
>often he is wrong.

Thing is, you get the whole story - both sides. For some
reason, that approach seems to be total anathema to many
liberals. I suppose it's easier to go through life not
hearing anything that contradicts your preconceived notions
- but personally I would hate to appear that naive when
discussing the issues in public.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame
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