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Mayo crashes before Pavé - Page 2

post #16 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

Results:

1 Jean-Patrick Nazon (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance 4.36.45
2 Erik Zabel (Ger) T-Mobile Team
3 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Lotto-Domo
4 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step-Davitamon
5 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Fassa Bortolo
6 Danilo Hondo (Ger) Gerolsteiner
7 Jaan Kirsipuu (Est) AG2R Prévoyance
8 Alessandro Bertolini (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
9 Fabio Baldato (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
10 José Enrique Gutierrez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
11 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Domina Vacanze
12 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Rabobank
13 Laurent Brochard (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance
14 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo
15 Paolo Valoti (Ita) Domina Vacanze 0.05
16 Mikel Pradera Rodriguez (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto
17 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) AG2R Prévoyance
18 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team
19 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
20 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner
21 Laurent Dufaux (Swi) Quick Step-Davitamon
22 Kurt-Asle Arvesen (Nor) Team CSC
23 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC
24 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros
25 Aitor Gonzalez Jimenez (Spa) Fassa Bortolo
26 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
27 Aart Vierhouten (Ned) Lotto-Domo
28 Francisco Mancebo Pérez (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto
29 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saeco
30 Richard Virenque (Fra) Quick Step-Davitamon
31 Frédéric Guesdon (Fra) Fdjeux.com
32 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance
33 Michele Bartoli (Ita) Team CSC
34 Angel Vicioso Arcos (Spa) Liberty Seguros
35 Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano (Spa) Liberty Seguros
36 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
37 Michael Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank
38 Nicki Sørensen (Den) Team CSC
39 Jérôme Pineau (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
40 Dariusz Baranowski (Pol) Liberty Seguros
41 Matthias Kessler (Ger) T-Mobile Team
42 George Hincapie (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
43 Peter Wrolich (Aut) Gerolsteiner
44 Marcos Serrano Rodriguez (Spa) Liberty Seguros
45 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team
46 Andrea Noè (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
47 Karsten Kroon (Ned) Rabobank
48 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems
49 Marc Lotz (Ned) Rabobank
50 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
51 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC
52 René Haselbacher (Aut) Gerolsteiner
53 Axel Merckx (Bel) Lotto-Domo
54 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
55 Christophe Mengin (Fra) Fdjeux.com
56 Bram de Groot (Ned) Rabobank
57 Christophe Brandt (Bel) Lotto-Domo
58 Pietro Caucchioli (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
59 Matteo Tosatto (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
60 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC
61 Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa) Fassa Bortolo
62 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC
63 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems
64 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
65 Manuel Beltran (Spa) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
66 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
67 Peter Farazijn (Bel) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
68 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
69 Martin Hvastija (Slo) Alessio-Bianchi
70 Didier Rous (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
71 Daniele Nardello (Ita) T-Mobile Team
72 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
73 Isidro Nozal Vega (Spa) Liberty Seguros
74 Grischa Niermann (Ger) Rabobank
75 Mark Scanlon (Irl) AG2R Prévoyance
76 Jan Hruska (Cze) Liberty Seguros
77 Jean-Cyril Robin (Fra) Fdjeux.com
78 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank
79 Jose Azevedo (Por) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
80 Sylvain Calzati (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
81 Gilles Bouvard (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
82 Evgueni Petrov (Rus) Saeco
83 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
84 Massimiliano Mori (Ita) Domina Vacanze 0.16
85 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 0.18
86 Viatcheslav Ekimov (Rus) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
87 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.20
88 José V. Garcia Acosta (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.26
89 Nicolas Jalabert (Fra) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.30
90 Sergei Ivanov (Rus) T-Mobile Team 0.33
91 Wim Vansevenant (Bel) Lotto-Domo 0.35
92 Unai Etxebarria (Ven) Euskaltel - Euskadi 3.53
93 Erik Dekker (Ned) Rabobank
94 Servais Knaven (Ned) Quick Step-Davitamon
95 Mario Cipollini (Ita) Domina Vacanze
96 Franck Renier (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
97 José I.Gutierrez Palacios (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto
98 Aitor Osa Eizaguirre (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto
99 Denis Menchov (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto
100 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Fdjeux.com
101 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
102 Anthony Charteau (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
103 Jörg Ludewig (Ger) Saeco
104 Carlos Dacruz (Fra) Fdjeux.com
105 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team
106 Scott Sunderland (Aus) Alessio-Bianchi
107 Santiago Botero (Col) T-Mobile Team
108 Pavel Padrnos (Cze) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
109 Claus Michael Møller (Den) Alessio-Bianchi
110 Stefano Zanini (Ita) Quick Step-Davitamon
111 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole
112 Patrice Halgand (Fra) Crédit Agricole
113 Sébastien Hinault (Fra) Crédit Agricole
114 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Crédit Agricole
115 Marius Sabaliauskas (Ltu) Saeco
116 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto
117 Walter Bénéteau (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
118 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
119 Jimmy Engoulvent (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
120 Rolf Aldag (Ger) T-Mobile Team
121 David Moncoutié (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
122 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick Step-Davitamon
123 Allan Davis (Aus) Liberty Seguros
124 Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Gerolsteiner
125 Koos Moerenhout (Ned) Lotto-Domo
126 Sandy Casar (Fra) Fdjeux.com
127 Daniel Becke (Ger) Illes Balears - Banesto
128 Rik Verbrugghe (Bel) Lotto-Domo
129 Sergio Marinangeli (Ita) Domina Vacanze
130 Salvatore Commesso (Ita) Saeco
131 Christophe Edaleine (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
132 Marc Wauters (Bel) Rabobank
133 Christophe Laurent (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
134 Janek Tombak (Est) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
135 Magnus Backstedt (Swe) Alessio-Bianchi
136 Mirko Celestino (Ita) Saeco
137 Christophe Rinero (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
138 Andrea Peron (Ita) Team CSC
139 Laurent Lefèvre (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
140 Julian Dean (NZl) Crédit Agricole
141 Santiago Perez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
142 Christian Vandevelde (USA) Liberty Seguros
143 Matthew Wilson (Aus) Fdjeux.com
144 Samuel Dumoulin (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance
145 Nicolas Portal (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance
146 Jimmy Casper (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
147 David Loosli (Swi) Saeco
148 Thierry Marichal (Bel) Lotto-Domo
149 Paolo Bettini (Ita) Quick Step-Davitamon
150 Iker Camaño (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
151 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
152 Xabier Zandio (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto 7.28
153 Ronny Scholz (Ger) Gerolsteiner 9.06
154 Francesco Secchiari (Ita) Domina Vacanze
155 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) Crédit Agricole
156 Sven Montgomery (Swi) Gerolsteiner
157 Pierre Bourquenoud (Swi) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
158 Benoît Salmon (Fra) Crédit Agricole
159 Dmitri Fofonov (Kaz) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
160 Uwe Peschel (Ger) Gerolsteiner
161 Stefano Casagranda (Ita) Saeco
162 Baden Cooke (Aus) Fdjeux.com
163 Massimo Giunti (Ita) Domina Vacanze
164 Ludovic Martin (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
165 Frédéric Finot (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
166 Guillaume Auger (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover
167 Martin Elmiger (Swi) Phonak Hearing Systems
168 Iñigo Landaluze (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
169 Maryan Hary (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère
170 David Etxebarria (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
171 Benjamin Noval (Spa) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
172 Alexandre Botcharov (Rus) Crédit Agricole
173 Bradley McGee (Aus) Fdjeux.com
174 Jakob Piil (Den) Team CSC
175 Yuriy Krivtsov (Ukr) AG2R Prévoyance 11.29
176 Marcus Ljungqvist (Swe) Alessio-Bianchi
177 Eddy Seigneur (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover 13.17
178 Davide Bramati (Ita) Quick Step-Davitamon 15.13
179 Egoi Martínez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
180 Iker Flores (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
181 Gerrit Glomser (Aut) Saeco
182 Filippo Simeoni (Ita) Domina Vacanze
183 Juan Miguel Mercado (Spa) Quick Step-Davitamon
184 Sébastien Joly (Fra) Crédit Agricole
DNF Marco Velo (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
DNS Frédéric Bessy (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone
post #17 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"Daremo" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:yGAGc.21738$JO.2581@fe44.usenetserver.com...
> 3 Telekom riders were in the 4 minute + group, and 2 USPS
> riders were in that or the 10 + minute group.
>
> It's a race, people crash.
>
> You don't wait for someone because you want to have a
> better/closer race 15 stages later in the mountains,
> that's just idiotic! That's how racing is, you make
> mistakes, you lose.

Ordinarily, you wait for the other race leaders when
they crash.

T-Mobile and US Postal joined together and put some time
into Iban Mayo. I wonder if Lance and Jan are giving Mayo a
little payback for last year when Mayo, Basso, and Zubeldia
sat on his wheel up Luz Ardiden and Mayo went ahead and took
some of the time bonus. That was truly a crummy think for
the Spanish riders to do.

Mike
post #18 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:2kvpudF6rku3U1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Gary" <specializedallez@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
> news:10elbsmt3uu1s49@corp.supernews.com...
> > I believe the wait is expected for the yellow jersey
> > only, although I may be mistaken about that.
>
>
> You're mistaken. It has nothing to do with the yellow
> jersey. If your
rival
> has a fall, you're supposed not to attack. It has been
> done several times
in
> the Tour, but is still - and rightly so - considered to be
> very unsportsmanslike.

Perhaps that should be amended to "used to be considered to
be very unsportmanlike". That is, given the amount of $$ in
pro cycling today, should we really expect such traditions
to be maintained? That would sort of be like trying to
maintain the original sense of "amateur" vs. "professional",
now wouldn't it?

Andy Coggan
post #19 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"Bird" <a.bird@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3agle0psjdif3b9dcks8bo5ng1teo5c0l1@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:46:22 -0400, Top Sirloin
> <scottjohnson@tornadosaregood.planetkc.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Ullrich is in the same group dip****.
>
> But the teams of Arrmstrong and Hamilton were doing the
> job, specially in the begin, when the difference was being
> build up.

According to the cyclingnews.com coverage, T-Mobile was also
contributing.

Andy Coggan
post #20 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

Bird wrote:

> My point is Ullrichs team was _not_ doing the job.
> Armstrong and Hamilton decide it would be nice to get an
> extra benefit from Mayo's fall.

Did you watch it? All I have is stuff like this to go on:

16:47 CEST 197km/13km to go Still Phonak, T-Mobile and (to a
lesser extent) US Postal leading the front group.

> What is your point? Ullrich should wait? (literally, stop
> and wait alongside the road and let Armstrong go) ????

No point, I'm just upset at the wankers who think everyone
should stop on the pave for a potty break because one of the
"favorites" crashed.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com
post #21 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

trg wrote:
> This is not an wholzly unanticipated crash. It's pavé.
> Check out Paris-Roubaix sometime. No one ever waits.

Whether anyone waits in P-R is irrelevent -- the issues in
stage racing are different.

The point that this was a crash leading up to the pave is,
however, somewhat valid. If it were Hamilton rather than
Mayo who crashed, however, the center of opinion on this
incident might have been a bit different.

Dan
post #22 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

warren wrote:
> In article
> <3agle0psjdif3b9dcks8bo5ng1teo5c0l1@4ax.com>, Bird
> <a.bird@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:46:22 -0400, Top Sirloin
>> <scottjohnson@tornadosaregood.planetkc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ullrich is in the same group dip****.
>>
>> But the teams of Arrmstrong and Hamilton were doing the
>> job, specially in the begin, when the difference was
>> being build up.
>
> Everyone in the race knew the lead up to the cobbles would
> cause problems and most of the GC riders and their
> teammates worked extra hard to be in front of any
> problems. Just as we saw happen a few years back on the
> wet narrow road that caused a similar expected split the
> teams who worked hard to be in the front before problems
> extended their advantage after the problems.
>
If I recall correctly, the fall that caused the split on the
Passage du Gois did not involve any of the contenders.
Zuelle lost time that day by being stuck behind the crash,
which is a tactical error and is fair game for being
exploited. Mayo crashed; it's a different situation.
post #23 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
news:l5CGc.7174$Mx1.7134@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> trg wrote:
> > This is not an wholzly unanticipated crash. It's pavé.
> > Check out Paris-Roubaix sometime. No one ever waits.
>
> Whether anyone waits in P-R is irrelevent -- the issues in
> stage racing are different.
>
> The point that this was a crash leading up to the pave is,
> however, somewhat valid. If it were Hamilton rather than
> Mayo who crashed, however, the center of opinion on this
> incident might have been a bit different.
>
> Dan

Or Ullrich. If Jan had fallen, they might have sat up,
although with a breakaway, even that's not a certainty.

Mike
post #24 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"Robert Chung" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<2kvp7rF714qqU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> David Off wrote:
> > Iban Mayo has been involved in a big pile-up just before
> > the cobbles. His shorts are ripped and he has a big gash
> > on his left thigh but seems to be regaining the bunch.
>
> Marco Velo looks to be out -- blood all over his jersey.

A chief lieutenant for AleJet gone, seems the sprinters
trains are taking the beating this year.
post #25 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

David Off <david.off_dumpthisbit_@voila.fr> wrote in message news:<40eab2a5$0$5801$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-04.noos.net>...
> Robert Chung wrote:
> >
> > Marco Velo looks to be out -- blood all over his jersey.
> >
> >
> absolutely horrible crash for Velo, a fractured
> clavicule. Very nasty.

I believe that all of the other "favorites" for the Tour GC
were in the Armstrong group, except for Mayo. So how come
you all aren't ****ting on the rest of them and just Postal?
It's not Lance's fault he's got Eki and Hincapie up there
pounding away. I'm sure Johann put them there for a reason
(to protect their GC contender going into a dodgy
situation). Mayo had some bad luck, but that was almost to
be expected going into the cobbled sections. His team is not
as strong on the flats either as Postal, he doesn't have the
rolleurs that Lance does. If he did, he would have made it
back to the group.

Tom
post #26 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"Michael" wrote...
>
> T-Mobile and US Postal joined together and put some time
> into Iban Mayo. I wonder if Lance and Jan are giving Mayo
> a little payback for last year when Mayo, Basso, and
> Zubeldia sat on his wheel up Luz Ardiden and Mayo went
> ahead and took some of the time bonus. That was truly a
> crummy think for the Spanish riders to do.

Seems like waiting for another near-at-hand GC contender on
a climbing stage with the pelOton strung out over tens of
kilometers (as Armstrong did for Ulrich a couple of years
ago or Hamilton et al for Armstrong last year) is a little
different than waiting for a potential leader-at-some-future-stage-
maybe, on a flat stage with whole teams vying for position
at speed and with pave closing.

JF
post #27 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

And Phonak and T-Mobile were up there pushing the pace, too.
Everyone trying to stay out of trouble. Mayo's DS had to
know this was coming, but why his contender is wheel sucking
at the back of the group rather than up front is anyone's
guess. Does E-E ride the spring classics?

"MikeW" <mwesty@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:<10eleqjj060637b@corp.supernews.com>...
> I think the decision to ride in front had more to do with
> the upcoming cobbles than Mayo's misfortune? Just worked
> out that way.
>
> "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <nospam@nospam.nl> wrote in message
> news:ccec58$6b0$1@reader08.wxs.nl...
> > "Gary" <specializedallez@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
> > news:10elbsmt3uu1s49@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I believe the wait is expected for the yellow jersey
> > > only, although I may be mistaken about that.
> >
> > There is no expected wait. Ullrich showed his class by
> > waiting, Armstrong does not.
> >
> > Jonathan.
> >
post #28 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

On a cobblestone section, the safest place to be is at the front. Naturally, the way to ensure your placement at the front is to elevate the pace significantly. Given the placement of the two most experienced USPS riders on cobblestones (Eki and Hincapie), this strategy was unquestionably planned in advance.

Whether Mayo crashed or didn't crash, it did not alter the strategy. It was only a matter of circumstance that Mayo ended up in the lagging half of the peloton. Furthermore, given the protective measures of USPS, Phonak, and T-Mobile for their respective leaders, it would have been faulty for any of them to compromise the safety of their leaders (top GC contenders) by sitting up in this dangerous section.
post #29 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"Bird" <a.bird@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:g7dle0lnuc51hi9u13q3d19egb6f8q4s1n@4ax.com...
> But Mr. Armstrong considers himself a god, so he will get
> away with
> it. But he makes no friends amongst the Spanish riders.
> And that will be a big tactical mistake. Spanish teams
> tend to help each other.
Yes the orange people are already organising a plastic bag
collection for him when the race reaches the Pyrénées... All
the best Dan Gregory ;-((

---
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post #30 of 90

Re: Mayo crashes before Pavé

"John Everett" <jeverett3@earthlink.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> schreef in bericht
news:s3qle0dq3hua54h6mho21lqcaggcfpfb33@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:06:12 +0200, "Jonathan v.d. Sluis"
> <nospam@nospam.nl> wrote:
>
> >"Gary" <specializedallez@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
> >news:10elbsmt3uu1s49@corp.supernews.com...
> >> I believe the wait is expected for the yellow jersey
> >> only, although I may be mistaken about that.
> >
> >There is no expected wait. Ullrich showed his class by
> >waiting, Armstrong does not.
>
> Have we suddenly forgotten when Lance waited for Jan
> after he tumbled off the road on a descent a couple of
> years ago?

No. But we haven't forgotten either the comment of Johan
Bruyneel: "He asked me if he should continue. I said he'd
better wait. The finish was much too far and Heras and
Ribeira were just behind." I other words: it had nothing to
do with sportmanship. Not that I blame him. As Rudy Altig
said: "We're pro's, not sportsmen". On the other hand, when
Armstrong seemd to wait for Ullrich, he recieved a lot of
goodwill. That was good for his reputaion and his sponsors
must have loved it. If possible riders should always try to
seem generous and fait, if not, they and so ir sponsors will
get bad publicity. Fortunately, there is almost always an
excuse for being a bit unsportsmanlike. Just as this time.

Benjo Maso
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