M
mareri
Guest
ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
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D
Donovan Rebbechi
Guest
On 2004-10-13, mareri <[email protected]> wrote:
> ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
> endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
Weight training isn't going to help a whole lot. Doing "one leg in front of
the other" tens of thousands of times a week makes more of a difference than
anything else.
My weights workout is very simple:
Squats: five sets of 3
Bench: 5 sets of 3
Pullups: 5 sets of 3
These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps reasonably
quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
needing a spotter.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
> ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
> endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
Weight training isn't going to help a whole lot. Doing "one leg in front of
the other" tens of thousands of times a week makes more of a difference than
anything else.
My weights workout is very simple:
Squats: five sets of 3
Bench: 5 sets of 3
Pullups: 5 sets of 3
These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps reasonably
quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
needing a spotter.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
M
Matthew Venhaus
Guest
mareri <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
> endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>
The best workout to help with running endurance would be distance running.
But given the subject heading that's probably not what you were looking for.
news:[email protected]...
> ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
> endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>
The best workout to help with running endurance would be distance running.
But given the subject heading that's probably not what you were looking for.
D
Dally
Guest
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> On 2004-10-13, mareri <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>
>
> Weight training isn't going to help a whole lot. Doing "one leg in front of
> the other" tens of thousands of times a week makes more of a difference than
> anything else.
>
> My weights workout is very simple:
> Squats: five sets of 3
> Bench: 5 sets of 3
> Pullups: 5 sets of 3
>
> These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps reasonably
> quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
> needing a spotter.
Donovan, just curious, did you mean three sets of 5 reps? I find the
line between "too easy" and "too hard" too fine when I'm working with
sets with that few reps.
I prefer to do a warm-up set with just enough weight to feel the bar to
set my form, then do three or four work sets of 6 reps, (or so,
depending on the situation) with a weight that would be my rep max for 7
reps, i.e., I leave one rep on the hole.
"Reasonably quickly" isn't one of my criteria. Being pretty sure I
won't get in trouble and need a spotter IS a criteria. But because I
work out with heavy weights I can find myself prone to having a "gravity
attack" from time to time. Like one day I did a bunch of hedge trimming
all morning and later that afternoon at the gym I got under a normal
weight for my bench press and it dropped like a stone. I had forgotten
that I'd already blown my pecs with three hours of waving a hedge
trimmer around. That scenario would have been even worse if I were
using closer to my 4 rep max than my 7 rep max weight.
All that being said, I don't find that weight-lifting helps my endurance
one whit. Running for a long time helps my endurance. But
weight-lifting helps my power. I particularly like high bench step-ups
and sumo deadlifts for helping me "get my ass in gear."
I also believe (and this is just a matter of faith) that weightlifting -
particularly deep squats - makes me less prone to injury from running.
Dally
> On 2004-10-13, mareri <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>
>
> Weight training isn't going to help a whole lot. Doing "one leg in front of
> the other" tens of thousands of times a week makes more of a difference than
> anything else.
>
> My weights workout is very simple:
> Squats: five sets of 3
> Bench: 5 sets of 3
> Pullups: 5 sets of 3
>
> These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps reasonably
> quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
> needing a spotter.
Donovan, just curious, did you mean three sets of 5 reps? I find the
line between "too easy" and "too hard" too fine when I'm working with
sets with that few reps.
I prefer to do a warm-up set with just enough weight to feel the bar to
set my form, then do three or four work sets of 6 reps, (or so,
depending on the situation) with a weight that would be my rep max for 7
reps, i.e., I leave one rep on the hole.
"Reasonably quickly" isn't one of my criteria. Being pretty sure I
won't get in trouble and need a spotter IS a criteria. But because I
work out with heavy weights I can find myself prone to having a "gravity
attack" from time to time. Like one day I did a bunch of hedge trimming
all morning and later that afternoon at the gym I got under a normal
weight for my bench press and it dropped like a stone. I had forgotten
that I'd already blown my pecs with three hours of waving a hedge
trimmer around. That scenario would have been even worse if I were
using closer to my 4 rep max than my 7 rep max weight.
All that being said, I don't find that weight-lifting helps my endurance
one whit. Running for a long time helps my endurance. But
weight-lifting helps my power. I particularly like high bench step-ups
and sumo deadlifts for helping me "get my ass in gear."
I also believe (and this is just a matter of faith) that weightlifting -
particularly deep squats - makes me less prone to injury from running.
Dally
D
Donovan Rebbechi
Guest
On 2004-10-13, Dally <[email protected]> wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>> On 2004-10-13, mareri <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>>
>>
>> Weight training isn't going to help a whole lot. Doing "one leg in front of
>> the other" tens of thousands of times a week makes more of a difference than
>> anything else.
>>
>> My weights workout is very simple:
>> Squats: five sets of 3
>> Bench: 5 sets of 3
>> Pullups: 5 sets of 3
>>
>> These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps reasonably
>> quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
>> needing a spotter.
>
> Donovan, just curious, did you mean three sets of 5 reps? I find the
> line between "too easy" and "too hard" too fine when I'm working with
> sets with that few reps.
No, I mean 5 sets of 3. But the weights are not all that heavy, especially
on the squats (where I'm doing 65% 1rm)
> "Reasonably quickly" isn't one of my criteria. Being pretty sure I
> won't get in trouble and need a spotter IS a criteria. But because I
> work out with heavy weights I can find myself prone to having a "gravity
> attack" from time to time. Like one day I did a bunch of hedge trimming
> all morning and later that afternoon at the gym I got under a normal
> weight for my bench press and it dropped like a stone. I had forgotten
> that I'd already blown my pecs with three hours of waving a hedge
> trimmer around. That scenario would have been even worse if I were
> using closer to my 4 rep max than my 7 rep max weight.
If you're that badly trashed, you should find out during your warmup, not
your work-set.
BTW, the "gravity attack" you mention has nothing to do with low reps, it
has more to do with working at a high percentage of 1rm.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>> On 2004-10-13, mareri <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>>
>>
>> Weight training isn't going to help a whole lot. Doing "one leg in front of
>> the other" tens of thousands of times a week makes more of a difference than
>> anything else.
>>
>> My weights workout is very simple:
>> Squats: five sets of 3
>> Bench: 5 sets of 3
>> Pullups: 5 sets of 3
>>
>> These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps reasonably
>> quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
>> needing a spotter.
>
> Donovan, just curious, did you mean three sets of 5 reps? I find the
> line between "too easy" and "too hard" too fine when I'm working with
> sets with that few reps.
No, I mean 5 sets of 3. But the weights are not all that heavy, especially
on the squats (where I'm doing 65% 1rm)
> "Reasonably quickly" isn't one of my criteria. Being pretty sure I
> won't get in trouble and need a spotter IS a criteria. But because I
> work out with heavy weights I can find myself prone to having a "gravity
> attack" from time to time. Like one day I did a bunch of hedge trimming
> all morning and later that afternoon at the gym I got under a normal
> weight for my bench press and it dropped like a stone. I had forgotten
> that I'd already blown my pecs with three hours of waving a hedge
> trimmer around. That scenario would have been even worse if I were
> using closer to my 4 rep max than my 7 rep max weight.
If you're that badly trashed, you should find out during your warmup, not
your work-set.
BTW, the "gravity attack" you mention has nothing to do with low reps, it
has more to do with working at a high percentage of 1rm.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
L
Lyndon
Guest
>ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
It depends on how much running you do. There is published research showing
heavy weights helping endurance performance, but this only works for people
running less than 20 mi/wk (it is really the increased training load that helps
endurance performance). This will not work for people like Donovan; It will
make them slower (too much load). For people running, say, 25 and more, the
only weight training that has been shown to work for endurance is the so-called
"Finnish" study that Sam and I have mentioned in the past. The method is based
on "power" and uses light loads (30-50% of max) done very quickly (8-15 reps
done as fast as possible). In the finnish study, experienced runners with 5K
times around 18 minutes improved by about 30 seconds by replacing some of their
distance running with explosive strength training.
My routine is periodized and varies through a training cycle, this would be
"typical." I normally do sets of 10-12 reps of a weight I can lift 15 times.
This is about 65-70% of 1RM max
bench 4 sets 10 reps @225, 2 min rest
isolation curls 4 sets 12 reps @90, 1 min rest
trceps push 4 sets 12 reps @90 1 min rest
vertical pull 4 sets 12 reps @90, 1 min rest
squats 4 sets 4 reps @720, cybex plate-load squat machine, 5-6 min rest
I only do the squats for a few weeks at a time twice a year. There's a
protocol to increase the amount of fast-twitch fibers that involves heavy
loading for a certain number of weeks, then abruptly switching the loading off
(or to maintenance). I can provide citations about this if anyone wants them.
Note: I got a significant jump in max speed the first time I did this, but it
appears that it only works once
Lyndon
"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach
Brooks Johnson
>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
It depends on how much running you do. There is published research showing
heavy weights helping endurance performance, but this only works for people
running less than 20 mi/wk (it is really the increased training load that helps
endurance performance). This will not work for people like Donovan; It will
make them slower (too much load). For people running, say, 25 and more, the
only weight training that has been shown to work for endurance is the so-called
"Finnish" study that Sam and I have mentioned in the past. The method is based
on "power" and uses light loads (30-50% of max) done very quickly (8-15 reps
done as fast as possible). In the finnish study, experienced runners with 5K
times around 18 minutes improved by about 30 seconds by replacing some of their
distance running with explosive strength training.
My routine is periodized and varies through a training cycle, this would be
"typical." I normally do sets of 10-12 reps of a weight I can lift 15 times.
This is about 65-70% of 1RM max
bench 4 sets 10 reps @225, 2 min rest
isolation curls 4 sets 12 reps @90, 1 min rest
trceps push 4 sets 12 reps @90 1 min rest
vertical pull 4 sets 12 reps @90, 1 min rest
squats 4 sets 4 reps @720, cybex plate-load squat machine, 5-6 min rest
I only do the squats for a few weeks at a time twice a year. There's a
protocol to increase the amount of fast-twitch fibers that involves heavy
loading for a certain number of weeks, then abruptly switching the loading off
(or to maintenance). I can provide citations about this if anyone wants them.
Note: I got a significant jump in max speed the first time I did this, but it
appears that it only works once
Lyndon
"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach
Brooks Johnson
D
Donovan Rebbechi
Guest
On 2004-10-13, Lyndon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>
> It depends on how much running you do. There is published research showing
> heavy weights helping endurance performance, but this only works for people
> running less than 20 mi/wk (it is really the increased training load that
> helps endurance performance). This will not work for people like Donovan; It
> will make them slower (too much load).
Good insight, and it's worth noting that I had to substantially cut back on
weights once I picked up volume -- otherwise I'd end up having a permanent
case of DOMS. So the weights I'm doing now are very easy compared to what
I was doing when I wasn't running as hard.
If you're doing 70 miles and two speed workouts a week, you just don't have
the surplus "recovery units" to do more of anything. And if you do have energy
to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
>>ANyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>endurance. Any suggestions would be great... I'm new at this!
>
> It depends on how much running you do. There is published research showing
> heavy weights helping endurance performance, but this only works for people
> running less than 20 mi/wk (it is really the increased training load that
> helps endurance performance). This will not work for people like Donovan; It
> will make them slower (too much load).
Good insight, and it's worth noting that I had to substantially cut back on
weights once I picked up volume -- otherwise I'd end up having a permanent
case of DOMS. So the weights I'm doing now are very easy compared to what
I was doing when I wasn't running as hard.
If you're doing 70 miles and two speed workouts a week, you just don't have
the surplus "recovery units" to do more of anything. And if you do have energy
to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
B
Brilliant One
Guest
<< >>Anyone have a workout they have been using to help wit their running
>>endurance. >>
Tip 1. Don't be out-witted by dirty dogs.
Tip 2. Take the long view; a long leash helps.
Tip 3. Don't tug at the leash; you'll choke yourself.
Tip 4. Wear booties when there's salt to melt the ice on the sidewalk.
Tip 5. Use pooper scooper, or you'll Go to Jail.
Tip 6. Get paper trained.
Tip 7. Have your DVM floss your canines regularly.
Tip 8. Don't gloss over your mistakes.
Tip 9. Don't hump the guests ~
Tip 10. Or the Hostess, with the Mostest!
Hope that helps!
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
>>endurance. >>
Tip 1. Don't be out-witted by dirty dogs.
Tip 2. Take the long view; a long leash helps.
Tip 3. Don't tug at the leash; you'll choke yourself.
Tip 4. Wear booties when there's salt to melt the ice on the sidewalk.
Tip 5. Use pooper scooper, or you'll Go to Jail.
Tip 6. Get paper trained.
Tip 7. Have your DVM floss your canines regularly.
Tip 8. Don't gloss over your mistakes.
Tip 9. Don't hump the guests ~
Tip 10. Or the Hostess, with the Mostest!
Hope that helps!
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
B
Brilliant One
Guest
<< > These are all submax weights -- light enough that I can do the reps
reasonably
> quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
> needing a spotter. >>
Submax? What's that?!
Maximillian, the French Poodle,
Now submits, rolls over, passive, for Dob,
Lean, mean, Doberman Pinscer?
I know Max. That guy's got oodles and oodles
Of class ~ fleet as a silver feather!
A magic fancy dancer, en pointe, on hind legs,
Max works out in ballet class ~ He begs
The question: Piroettes?
Mais oui! His perfect diagonal spin
Slices dancespace, spun
Without a spotter!
O look! Ms. Kalman's joined the soiree ~
And Maxamillian runs
Up to say, Hey!
What dog's hotter?
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
reasonably
> quickly, and light enough that I could comfortably do the workout without
> needing a spotter. >>
Submax? What's that?!
Maximillian, the French Poodle,
Now submits, rolls over, passive, for Dob,
Lean, mean, Doberman Pinscer?
I know Max. That guy's got oodles and oodles
Of class ~ fleet as a silver feather!
A magic fancy dancer, en pointe, on hind legs,
Max works out in ballet class ~ He begs
The question: Piroettes?
Mais oui! His perfect diagonal spin
Slices dancespace, spun
Without a spotter!
O look! Ms. Kalman's joined the soiree ~
And Maxamillian runs
Up to say, Hey!
What dog's hotter?
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
B
Brilliant One
Guest
<< my rep max for 7
reps, i.e., I leave one rep on the hole. >>
All told, a bone in the hole
Is a bone for rainy weather.
So, by all means, draw a map,
Or you'll forget where you've burried
That thing! Now don't forget your goal ~
You're either a hunter or a fancy fuzzy lap
Dog. Not both at once; nope, no hurried
Solutions dug up randomly, unless
Of course, your map maps
Dog Heaven. So just toss
Me a bone, or two.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
reps, i.e., I leave one rep on the hole. >>
All told, a bone in the hole
Is a bone for rainy weather.
So, by all means, draw a map,
Or you'll forget where you've burried
That thing! Now don't forget your goal ~
You're either a hunter or a fancy fuzzy lap
Dog. Not both at once; nope, no hurried
Solutions dug up randomly, unless
Of course, your map maps
Dog Heaven. So just toss
Me a bone, or two.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
B
Brilliant One
Guest
<< I also believe (and this is just a matter of faith) >>
O yes, if you're injury prone,
Just bone-up on good technique.
Cover your tracks, when home alone,
Get all the other dogs gone
Before Mum comes home!
Or you'll end up in Doggie Danger Zone...
That's Channel Z, seller of Le Graphique
De Deade Dog Doggone, Bone Not.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
O yes, if you're injury prone,
Just bone-up on good technique.
Cover your tracks, when home alone,
Get all the other dogs gone
Before Mum comes home!
Or you'll end up in Doggie Danger Zone...
That's Channel Z, seller of Le Graphique
De Deade Dog Doggone, Bone Not.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
B
Brilliant One
Guest
<< And if you do have energy
to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi >>
Hey, DonVon?
Whatcha do for fun,
When you not on the run?
Got rental Top Space?
Got dismissed from the rat race?
So, how's you pay your rent?
What's earned, what's spent?
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi >>
Hey, DonVon?
Whatcha do for fun,
When you not on the run?
Got rental Top Space?
Got dismissed from the rat race?
So, how's you pay your rent?
What's earned, what's spent?
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
I
Ignorant One
Guest
I want to meat you.
On 14 Oct 2004 04:55:50 GMT, [email protected]entary (Brilliant One)
wrote:
><< And if you do have energy
>to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
>
>Cheers,
On 14 Oct 2004 04:55:50 GMT, [email protected]entary (Brilliant One)
wrote:
><< And if you do have energy
>to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
>
>Cheers,
B
Brilliant One
Guest
<< want to meat you.
On 14 Oct 2004 04:55:50 GMT, [email protected]entary (Brilliant One)
wrote:
><< And if you do have energy
>to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
>
>Cheers,
>>
O no, I not write this.
Running that much?
Not me!
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
On 14 Oct 2004 04:55:50 GMT, [email protected]entary (Brilliant One)
wrote:
><< And if you do have energy
>to burn, you're (usually) best to put it into running.
>
>Cheers,
>>
O no, I not write this.
Running that much?
Not me!
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
P
ProfWdesk1
Guest
do arm dumbells weights in running arm motion ... its great ... walking up
stairs or doing leg press is about all I do other than that for running ...
stairs or doing leg press is about all I do other than that for running ...