Lightweight stove by Outoor Design?

"Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I may have the name wrong as I've not found anything via Google yet,
> but has anyone seen a small, light stove by Outdoor Design? I'm told
> it's an impressive alternative to a Pocket Rocket, very similar in
> design to the ultra-expensive titanium Primus one.
>
> ? Does this ring a bell with anyone?
>
> All help gratefully received
>
>
> Best wishes,
> --
> Peewiglet

Cotswold are currently advertising an Outdoor Designs titanium stove.
http://www.cotswold-outdoor.com/Cat/99194

Peewiglet wrote:
> I may have the name wrong as I've not found anything via Google yet,
> but has anyone seen a small, light stove by Outdoor Design? I'm told
> it's an impressive alternative to a Pocket Rocket, very similar in
> design to the ultra-expensive titanium Primus one.

I won one on OutdoorsMagic about a month ago, and took it on a
subsequent cycle tour. It's certainly light and /very/ neat, though
sitting exposed on top of the cannister you need to shield the setup
pretty well if it's at all windy (which it was) or a lot of the heat
just gets dissipated into the air. Brewing up took noticeably longer
than with a gas Trangia because of this exposure, and we used quite a
bit more fuel too. This lower efficiency was noted even when it wasn't
blowing too hard, but you'd have the same problem with any open design
like this.

The piezo-electric ignition seems a bit pointless. Left the stove
outside the first night (got a bit drizzly), and the sparker stopped
working for the rest of the week so lucky my default packing includes a
lighter! Think I'll save 9 whole grammes and take it off.

I'll use it when I'm paranoid about weight/bulk and have gas easily
available, but I'll be keeping going with the gas Trangia for most of my
camp cooking. It's more stable and much better shielded from the wind
(the Trangia is about the only camping stove I'm happy to leave to its
own devices while I do something else). The OD is good if pack size and
weight are at a premium though. Summary is it's good for what it is,
but it's not a great way to do cooking compared to (heavier and bulkier)
alternatives.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 08:24:06 GMT, "Mike Swann"
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
>Cotswold are currently advertising an Outdoor Designs titanium stove.
>http://www.cotswold-outdoor.com/Cat/99194

Sometimes I wonder how I manage to get out of the house at all! I
looked on their site but I didn't manage to find it. Thanks v. much!


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:55:54 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
>I won one on OutdoorsMagic about a month ago, and took it on a
>subsequent cycle tour.

Excellent!

>It's certainly light and /very/ neat, though
>sitting exposed on top of the cannister you need to shield the setup
>pretty well <snip good stuff>

Hmm... I'm not sure that's what would suit me best.

>I'll use it when I'm paranoid about weight/bulk and have gas easily
>available, but I'll be keeping going with the gas Trangia for most of my
>camp cooking. It's more stable and much better shielded from the wind
>(the Trangia is about the only camping stove I'm happy to leave to its
>own devices while I do something else). The OD is good if pack size and
>weight are at a premium though. Summary is it's good for what it is,
>but it's not a great way to do cooking compared to (heavier and bulkier)
>alternatives.

I was planning on a Pocket Rocket, but then this one was mentioned.
What I was told is that it dissipates the heat over a wider area of
the bottom of the pot, leading to greater efficiency and less burning.
I've no idea whether that's right, though.

Although I'm looking for a stove to take on a long backpack where I'll
mainly be using it for boiling water, I'd like to be able to use it
for cooking on backpacking trips aftewards. I'm not sure whether it's
possible to reconcile the three things I'd like to be able to achieve
in a stove, which are: (i) fast to boil (or at least not terribly
slow), (ii) lightweight and (iii) stable. I used to use a Trangia
because it was so stable, but it seemed to take forever to boil water.
It was meth's, though, not gas: perhaps I should look at the gas one?

Hmmm.... I was planning to buy my stove tomorrow, but perhaps I need
to think again.

Many thanks again for your help


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

In message <[email protected]>, Peewiglet
<[email protected]> writes
>On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:55:54 +0100, Peter Clinch
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[...]
>>I won one on OutdoorsMagic about a month ago, and took it on a
>>subsequent cycle tour.
>
>Excellent!
>
>>It's certainly light and /very/ neat, though
>>sitting exposed on top of the cannister you need to shield the setup
>>pretty well <snip good stuff>
>
>Hmm... I'm not sure that's what would suit me best.

I use a foil windscreen with this type of stove. None of them are very
wind resistant.
>
>>I'll use it when I'm paranoid about weight/bulk and have gas easily
>>available, but I'll be keeping going with the gas Trangia for most of my
>>camp cooking. It's more stable and much better shielded from the wind
>>(the Trangia is about the only camping stove I'm happy to leave to its
>>own devices while I do something else). The OD is good if pack size and
>>weight are at a premium though. Summary is it's good for what it is,
>>but it's not a great way to do cooking compared to (heavier and bulkier)
>>alternatives.
>
>I was planning on a Pocket Rocket, but then this one was mentioned.
>What I was told is that it dissipates the heat over a wider area of
>the bottom of the pot, leading to greater efficiency and less burning.
>I've no idea whether that's right, though.

When I tested gas stoves last year I didn't find any difference in this
respect between the Pocket Rocket and the Outdoor Designs Camp 3 (which
is identical to the Markill Peak Ignition). The best ultralight gas
stoves for spreading the flame are the Optimus Crux and the Primus
Micron. I also find the Micron the most fuel efficient, so that's become
my standard backpacking stove.
>
>Although I'm looking for a stove to take on a long backpack where I'll
>mainly be using it for boiling water, I'd like to be able to use it
>for cooking on backpacking trips aftewards. I'm not sure whether it's
>possible to reconcile the three things I'd like to be able to achieve
>in a stove, which are: (i) fast to boil (or at least not terribly
>slow), (ii) lightweight and (iii) stable.

The first two are easy to reconcile. The lightest stoves aren't the most
stable though as they sit on top of the cartridge. The lightest stove
with a hose connection to the cartridge, the most stable design, is the
MSR Wind Pro, which weighs 195 grams.

That said, I have no problems with the Micron and similar stoves for
solo use. For cooking for two I'd choose the Wind Pro.

> I used to use a Trangia
>because it was so stable, but it seemed to take forever to boil water.
>It was meth's, though, not gas: perhaps I should look at the gas one?

The gas burner for the Trangia is efficient and of course the unit is
stable. It's not lightweight though.
>
>Hmmm.... I was planning to buy my stove tomorrow, but perhaps I need
>to think again.
>
>Many thanks again for your help

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 00:46:51 +0100, Chris Townsend
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
>>>sitting exposed on top of the cannister you need to shield the setup
>>>pretty well <snip good stuff>

>>Hmm... I'm not sure that's what would suit me best.

>I use a foil windscreen with this type of stove. None of them are very
>wind resistant.

Is that simply a piece of foil tall enough to run from the ground to
the top of the stove, and long enough to go all the way round the
cartridge? Presumably a few layers thick? I've read about them on here
recently, but I've never used one.

[...]
>When I tested gas stoves last year I didn't find any difference in this
>respect between the Pocket Rocket and the Outdoor Designs Camp 3 (which
>is identical to the Markill Peak Ignition). The best ultralight gas
>stoves for spreading the flame are the Optimus Crux and the Primus
>Micron. I also find the Micron the most fuel efficient, so that's become
>my standard backpacking stove.

That's enormously helpful - thank you very much I think I'll
look out the Primus, then.

[...]
>>[...] I'd like to be able to achieve
>>in a stove, which are: (i) fast to boil (or at least not terribly
>>slow), (ii) lightweight and (iii) stable.

>The first two are easy to reconcile. The lightest stoves aren't the most
>stable though as they sit on top of the cartridge. The lightest stove
>with a hose connection to the cartridge, the most stable design, is the
>MSR Wind Pro, which weighs 195 grams.

>That said, I have no problems with the Micron and similar stoves for
>solo use. For cooking for two I'd choose the Wind Pro.

Many thanks for that also - I'll take a look at it.

[...]
>The gas burner for the Trangia is efficient and of course the unit is
>stable. It's not lightweight though.

I suspected not. Ah, well.

Thanks again - it's much appreciated


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

Chris Townsend wrote:

> The gas burner for the Trangia is efficient and of course the unit is
> stable. It's not lightweight though.

Wot Chris says... Note that Markill now do a clone of the Primus gas
converter for about £20 rather than forty-something, which is an
/insane/ amount of money for what it is (just a gas rose that sits where
the spirit burner usually does).

A lot of my camping is now done out of boats so the weight tends to be a
non-issue. And in that pleasant position you have to go a long way to
improve on the T as a camp cooker.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peewiglet wrote:

> Is that simply a piece of foil tall enough to run from the ground to
> the top of the stove, and long enough to go all the way round the
> cartridge? Presumably a few layers thick?

Usually just single layer: metal is pretty windproof!
They look pretty pathetic and you wonder why you're paying more than
pennies, but they do work.

Worth having for just about any stove bar a Trangia (which has its own
built in, of course).

Remote reservoir stoves (like the Windpro) are easier to shield from
wind as they're lower, and they're intrinsically more stable as well.
About 100g extra for a WP over a PR, so depends where your priorities
lie, but they're much better for /cooking/, as opposed to carrying.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:01:37 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Peewiglet wrote:

>> Is that simply a piece of foil tall enough to run from the ground to
>> the top of the stove, and long enough to go all the way round the
>> cartridge? Presumably a few layers thick?
>
>Usually just single layer: metal is pretty windproof!
>They look pretty pathetic and you wonder why you're paying more than
>pennies, but they do work.

V. helpful, thanks. It sounds from what you say as though they can be
bought? I assumed I should just make one, but I'll happily buy one if
it's likely to work better/perhaps to be more robust.

[...]
>Remote reservoir stoves (like the Windpro) are easier to shield from
>wind as they're lower, and they're intrinsically more stable as well.
>About 100g extra for a WP over a PR, so depends where your priorities
>lie, but they're much better for /cooking/, as opposed to carrying.

I'm like a reed in the wind, again! Stove stability is an area where
I'm willing to carry a bit of extra weight: it's a balancing act, of
course. When I've used a little screw in stove on top of a canister
before I've been a bit nervous in case it all toppled over. I should
probably develop a more robust attitude towards it, but part of me is
tempted to go for the Windpro, if it's not much heavier and doesn't
take up much more space. Decisions, decisions!


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

Peewiglet wrote:

> V. helpful, thanks. It sounds from what you say as though they can be
> bought? I assumed I should just make one, but I'll happily buy one if
> it's likely to work better/perhaps to be more robust.

You can indeed. They're actually thin metal sheet, rather than foil, so
they do stand up on their own. I think using foil would lead to far
more time being wasted than you'd ever save from being more efficient
doing the heating!

Should be available from your friendly neighbourhood outdoor shop, got
mine in Tiso's.

> I'm like a reed in the wind, again! Stove stability is an area where
> I'm willing to carry a bit of extra weight: it's a balancing act, of
> course. When I've used a little screw in stove on top of a canister
> before I've been a bit nervous in case it all toppled over.

Especially if you're manning the stove it should be okay: people used
Bluets (and integral tank Primus stoves too) okay for years before the
remote reservoir ones appeared, so you're not exactly inviting disaster.
But more stable is more stable, and it mainly means you can be
slightly more /relaxed/ while you cook. As usual, you choose, you lose!

> probably develop a more robust attitude towards it, but part of me is
> tempted to go for the Windpro, if it's not much heavier and doesn't
> take up much more space. Decisions, decisions!

If in doubt, buy everything and save the procrastination to which one to
take on any particular trip! ;-/ (I have the Trangia with choice of
spirit or gas power, the OD stove that started this thread and a Primus
MFS).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In message <[email protected]>, Peewiglet
<[email protected]> writes
>On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 00:46:51 +0100, Chris Townsend
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[...]
>>>>sitting exposed on top of the cannister you need to shield the setup
>>>>pretty well <snip good stuff>
>
>>>Hmm... I'm not sure that's what would suit me best.
>
>>I use a foil windscreen with this type of stove. None of them are very
>>wind resistant.
>
>Is that simply a piece of foil tall enough to run from the ground to
>the top of the stove, and long enough to go all the way round the
>cartridge? Presumably a few layers thick? I've read about them on here
>recently, but I've never used one.

It's actually two MSR foil windscreens stapled together to make one tall
enough to reach the top of the pot. I don't wrap it all the way round
the stove because of the danger of the cartridge overheating (which
could cause it to explode if it got extremely hot). It fits round about
three-quarters of the stove, with enough space for me to touch the
cartridge occasionally to see if it's getting hot (it never has).

My windscreen is beginning to disintegrate so I'm thinking of replacing
it with the one described on the following site:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041.html

(If this doesn't connect go to http://www.backpackinglight.com and
search for Homemade Canister Stove Windscreen).

This windscreen is a little more complex to make and use than mine but
should be more efficient as it goes right round the stove and fits
closely.
>
>[...]
>>When I tested gas stoves last year I didn't find any difference in this
>>respect between the Pocket Rocket and the Outdoor Designs Camp 3 (which
>>is identical to the Markill Peak Ignition). The best ultralight gas
>>stoves for spreading the flame are the Optimus Crux and the Primus
>>Micron. I also find the Micron the most fuel efficient, so that's become
>>my standard backpacking stove.
>
>That's enormously helpful - thank you very much I think I'll
>look out the Primus, then.
>
>[...]
>>>[...] I'd like to be able to achieve
>>>in a stove, which are: (i) fast to boil (or at least not terribly
>>>slow), (ii) lightweight and (iii) stable.
>
>>The first two are easy to reconcile. The lightest stoves aren't the most
>>stable though as they sit on top of the cartridge. The lightest stove
>>with a hose connection to the cartridge, the most stable design, is the
>>MSR Wind Pro, which weighs 195 grams.
>
>>That said, I have no problems with the Micron and similar stoves for
>>solo use. For cooking for two I'd choose the Wind Pro.
>
>Many thanks for that also - I'll take a look at it.
>
>[...]
>>The gas burner for the Trangia is efficient and of course the unit is
>>stable. It's not lightweight though.
>
>I suspected not. Ah, well.
>
>Thanks again - it's much appreciated
>
>
>Best wishes,

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:51:34 +0100, Peewiglet <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>V. helpful, thanks. It sounds from what you say as though they can be
>bought? I assumed I should just make one, but I'll happily buy one if
>it's likely to work better/perhaps to be more robust.

Yes, you can make your own from tin-foil but I find that you have to
make it several layers thick or the wind blows the windshield away.

Kitchen tinfoil comes in various thicknesses - and I think I use the
cheap, thin stuff!

I always stay with my Pocket Rocket when I'm using it; so I can hold
the windshield in place if necessary. I also try to pitch my Akto so
that the door/porch is sheltered.

It would be possible to make a fairly decent windshield out of some
stiff cardboard and some glued on tinfoil ..... but I CBA and it would
be something extra to carry.

Judith

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:25:49 +0100, Chris Townsend
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
>>Is that simply a piece of foil tall enough to run from the ground to
>>the top of the stove, and long enough to go all the way round the
>>cartridge? Presumably a few layers thick? I've read about them on here
>>recently, but I've never used one.

>It's actually two MSR foil windscreens stapled together to make one tall
>enough to reach the top of the pot. I don't wrap it all the way round
>the stove because of the danger of the cartridge overheating (which
>could cause it to explode if it got extremely hot). It fits round about
>three-quarters of the stove, with enough space for me to touch the
>cartridge occasionally to see if it's getting hot (it never has).
>
>My windscreen is beginning to disintegrate so I'm thinking of replacing
>it with the one described on the following site:
>
>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041.html

Very interesting: thanks v. much! I hadn't pictured the shield like
that. I think I'll have to practise in the garden before I set off.

[...]


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:19:24 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> V. helpful, thanks. It sounds from what you say as though they can be
>> bought? I assumed I should just make one, but I'll happily buy one if
>> it's likely to work better/perhaps to be more robust.

>You can indeed. They're actually thin metal sheet, rather than foil, so
>they do stand up on their own. I think using foil would lead to far
>more time being wasted than you'd ever save from being more efficient
>doing the heating!

I'll have a look in Cotswold this afternoon, then.

[...]
>Especially if you're manning the stove it should be okay: people used
>Bluets (and integral tank Primus stoves too) okay for years before the
>remote reservoir ones appeared, so you're not exactly inviting disaster.
> But more stable is more stable, and it mainly means you can be
>slightly more /relaxed/ while you cook. As usual, you choose, you lose!

I've decided to go with the smaller one for now, because...

[...]
>If in doubt, buy everything and save the procrastination to which one to
>take on any particular trip! ;-/

....this sounds like by far the best approach, to me )

Besides, I'll need some nice new kit to think about when I return from
the wilds!


Thanks again


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:28:22 +0100, Judith
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
>Yes, you can make your own from tin-foil but I find that you have to
>make it several layers thick or the wind blows the windshield away.

I think I'll buy one initially, and perhaps then experiment with
making one.

[...]
>I always stay with my Pocket Rocket when I'm using it; so I can hold
>the windshield in place if necessary. I also try to pitch my Akto so
>that the door/porch is sheltered.

You have an Akto too )

>It would be possible to make a fairly decent windshield out of some
>stiff cardboard and some glued on tinfoil ..... but I CBA



>and it would
>be something extra to carry.

True.


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:33:36 +0100, Peewiglet <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You have an Akto too )

Aye! Lovely bit of kit. Bestest tent in the world. (Well, bestest
tent that I've got..... and it's competing with TWO Argos PA-1!)

Judith

The message <[email protected]>
from Steve Orrell contains these words:

> Chris, if you find a source of the aluminium sheet/flashing let me now
> please, the closest I've found is empty takeaway cartons... come to
> think of, two birds with one stone ;-) No, seriously, if you find a
> [widely available] source I'd appreciate the heads-up.

I read offline so am reluctant to follow up links (so no idea what the
suggestion actually was) but it has crossed my mind that small pieces of
thin aluminium sheet are available for free in just about every roadside
gutter. OK so you have to top and tail each can and may need to stitch
or pin more than one sheet together and turn over the edges to make them
safe but all that should be relatively easy if you have any diy skills
at all.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times

Quick update.

I'm now the proud owner of a Primus Micron. It's extremely neat, and
folds away into a little black pouch. Many thanks again, Chris T., for
the recommendation

I also tried to buy a wind shield, but Cotswold unfortunately didn't
have one. I may well try making one of my own in the future, but I
think that initially I'd rather buy one. It may be a daft question,
but are they all much of a muchness? Is there a particularly good one?

Finally, I bought a canister of gas to go with it. They had 3 brands:
Primus, Karrimor and the one I bought, the name of which escapes me:
it's the one I generally see pictured, though, so I went with what
looked familiar. Is there a best brand, though? The one I got was (I
think) a 30:70 mixture of propane and butane (or the other way round).


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

In message <[email protected]>,
SteveOrrell@?.?.invalid writes
>On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:25:49 +0100, Chris Townsend
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>My windscreen is beginning to disintegrate so I'm thinking of replacing
>>it with the one described on the following site:
>>
>>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041.html
>>
>>(If this doesn't connect go to http://www.backpackinglight.com and
>>search for Homemade Canister Stove Windscreen).
>
>Chris, if you find a source of the aluminium sheet/flashing let me now
>please, the closest I've found is empty takeaway cartons... come to
>think of, two birds with one stone ;-) No, seriously, if you find a
>[widely available] source I'd appreciate the heads-up.

Flan tins are usable though a little small. I haven't found any other
sources yet. I've taken my MSR windscreen into several builder's
merchants, DIY stores and ironmongers and the staff have stared at it
like it was an alien from outer space.

If I do find a source I'll let everyone know.