FS: OS Maps Buy One Get One Free

Looks dodgy

In message <[email protected]>, Malcolm
<[email protected]> writes
>
>In article <[email protected]>, Steven
>Gerrard <[email protected]> writes
>>Looks dodgy
>
>Then your judgement is seriously at fault as the poster is the manager
>of the John Smith and Son's Bookshop in Glasgow Caledonian University.
>
>Perhaps you should apologise to him.
>
Then shouldn't he be doing his marketing on the campus - not here.

--
Martin Richardson
239/284 Munros - 15% to go 34/34 'Furths' & 439/439 Nuttalls - 0% to go
42/89 Donalds - 53% to go 0/? Himalayans - 100% to go
442/1552 Marilyns - 72% to go

"Martin Richardson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Malcolm
> <[email protected]> writes
> >
> >In article <[email protected]>, Steven
> >Gerrard <[email protected]> writes
> >>Looks dodgy
> >
> >Then your judgement is seriously at fault as the poster is the
manager
> >of the John Smith and Son's Bookshop in Glasgow Caledonian
University.
> >
> >Perhaps you should apologise to him.
> >
> Then shouldn't he be doing his marketing on the campus - not here.

On the other hand Bernie has been a regular poster here and as the
product is very relevant I for one appreciate the offer. As it
happens I don't need any but thanks anyway Bernie !

cheers
Graham

I'll just check what I need!

--
Wales and Borders 15th Century Living History Society
www.15thcentury.co.uk
"Graham Ingram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Martin Richardson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In message <[email protected]>, Malcolm
> > <[email protected]> writes
> > >
> > >In article <[email protected]>, Steven
> > >Gerrard <[email protected]> writes
> > >>Looks dodgy
> > >
> > >Then your judgement is seriously at fault as the poster is the
> manager
> > >of the John Smith and Son's Bookshop in Glasgow Caledonian
> University.
> > >
> > >Perhaps you should apologise to him.
> > >
> > Then shouldn't he be doing his marketing on the campus - not here.
>
> On the other hand Bernie has been a regular poster here and as the
> product is very relevant I for one appreciate the offer. As it
> happens I don't need any but thanks anyway Bernie !
>
> cheers
> Graham
>
>

Graham Ingram wrote:

> "Martin Richardson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>In message <[email protected]>, Malcolm
>><[email protected]> writes
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, Steven
>>>Gerrard <[email protected]> writes
>>>
>>>>Looks dodgy
>>>
>>>Then your judgement is seriously at fault as the poster is the
>
> manager
>
>>>of the John Smith and Son's Bookshop in Glasgow Caledonian
>
> University.
>
>>>Perhaps you should apologise to him.
>>>
>>
>>Then shouldn't he be doing his marketing on the campus - not here.
>
>
> On the other hand Bernie has been a regular poster here and as the
> product is very relevant I for one appreciate the offer. As it
> happens I don't need any but thanks anyway Bernie !

Appreciated Graham. I'm not sure why some people seem to have taken the
huff- the thread was clearly marked FS, so anyone could ignore it who
chose to. Nor is it a marketing exercise. I've inherited a pile of OS
maps from another branch that closed recently. There's no chance I'll
sell them off the shelf (to students?) at full price, so I decided that
if they had to go at a loss then I'd at least give people I know (in a
sense anyway) first shout before opening it up to the general public.
Several people on another group I frequent took advantage of the half
price offer & I disposed of quite a few maps & everyone was happy, so I
thought I'd repeat the exercise here. Perhaps they're a bit more touchy
on u.r.w!

Still the offer remains open to anyone who's interested; if you're not
then please ignore it.

Best Regards,
Bernie

>On the other hand Bernie has been a regular poster here and as the
>product is very relevant I for one appreciate the offer. As it
>happens I don't need any but thanks anyway Bernie !
>
>cheers
>Graham
>
>


Thanks for the heads up.... Useful info

Dont listen to the knockers!

Richard Webb

MARTIN.
Wind your neck in!


"Martin Richardson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Malcolm
> <[email protected]> writes
> >
> >In article <[email protected]>, Steven
> >Gerrard <[email protected]> writes
> >>Looks dodgy
> >
> >Then your judgement is seriously at fault as the poster is the manager
> >of the John Smith and Son's Bookshop in Glasgow Caledonian University.
> >
> >Perhaps you should apologise to him.
> >
> Then shouldn't he be doing his marketing on the campus - not here.
>
> --
> Martin Richardson
> 239/284 Munros - 15% to go 34/34 'Furths' & 439/439 Nuttalls - 0%
to go
> 42/89 Donalds - 53% to go 0/? Himalayans - 100% to go
> 442/1552 Marilyns - 72% to go

In message <PD%[email protected]>, yup
<[email protected]> writes
>MARTIN.
>Wind your neck in!
>
>
I go on the hills to get away from the shopping mall - and I come on
usenet to get away from the virtual equivalent.


--
Martin Richardson
239/284 Munros - 15% to go 34/34 'Furths' & 439/439 Nuttalls - 0% to go
42/89 Donalds - 53% to go 0/? Himalayans - 100% to go
442/1552 Marilyns - 72% to go

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:01:46 +0100, Martin Richardson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <PD%[email protected]>, yup
><[email protected]> writes
>>MARTIN.
>>Wind your neck in!
>>
>>
>I go on the hills to get away from the shopping mall - and I come on
>usenet to get away from the virtual equivalent.

Cheap gear is cheap gear... And this has always been a good place to
find out about it....

When I am in the hills I am away from shopping malls, but also away
from usenet... A good reason to go?

Richard Webb

In message <[email protected]>, RJ Webb
<[email protected]> writes
>On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:01:46 +0100, Martin Richardson
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In message <PD%[email protected]>, yup
>><[email protected]> writes
>>>MARTIN.
>>>Wind your neck in!
>>>
>>>
>>I go on the hills to get away from the shopping mall - and I come on
>>usenet to get away from the virtual equivalent.
>
>Cheap gear is cheap gear... And this has always been a good place to
>find out about it....
>
>When I am in the hills I am away from shopping malls, but also away
>from usenet... A good reason to go?
>
>Richard Webb

As it says in the FAQ:

1 Strictly speaking,

ALL ADVERTS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE CHARTER

However, by custom we are tolerant of occasional Personal For
Sale adverts. Any such postings should be preceded with FS so
those who wish to filter them may do so.


I assume the word 'personal' refers to an individual not a shop.
Otherwise what's to stop Tesco's telling us that there is a special
offer on Mars bars?





--
Martin Richardson
239/284 Munros - 15% to go 34/34 'Furths' & 439/439 Nuttalls - 0% to go
42/89 Donalds - 53% to go 0/? Himalayans - 100% to go
442/1552 Marilyns - 72% to go

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:41:02 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

| Martin Richardson <[email protected]> writes:
|
| >As it says in the FAQ:
|
| > 1 Strictly speaking,
|
| > ALL ADVERTS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE CHARTER
|
| > However, by custom we are tolerant of occasional Personal For
| > Sale adverts. Any such postings should be preceded with FS so
| > those who wish to filter them may do so.
|
|
| >I assume the word 'personal' refers to an individual not a shop.
| >Otherwise what's to stop Tesco's telling us that there is a special
| >offer on Mars bars?
|
| FAQs & newsgroup charters do not have the force of law. They are
| upheld simply by the force of how they are interpreted by newsgroup
| readers and ISPs. And I doubt that Tesco's lawyers are keenly studying
| this newsgroup to see what happens to a hillwalking bookshop manager
| who has some useful maps he wants to get rid of cheaply. There are,
| IMHO sufficiently clear distinctions between this case and Tesco's
| Mars Bars that there us no problem in encouraging one and discouraging
| the other, and I'm sure a lawyer could craft up a suitable amendment
| to the Charter to cover the distinction.
|
| But what would be the point in such effort? Our current informal
| system seems to be working fairly well, and it would probably cost a
| small fortune to try to replace it with a properly legal one, and it
| might not even be possible.

This is untrue.
To change the charter of urw simply write what you think the new charter
should be, and submit an RFD to Control. Mollycoddle the RFD through the
discussion. In this case a Fast track would be unlikely, so the RFD would
go to a vote.

No expence, lots of effort.

Dave F

Martin Richardson wrote:

> As it says in the FAQ:
>
> 1 Strictly speaking,
>
> ALL ADVERTS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE CHARTER
>
> However, by custom we are tolerant of occasional Personal For
> Sale adverts. Any such postings should be preceded with FS so
> those who wish to filter them may do so.
>
>
> I assume the word 'personal' refers to an individual not a shop.
> Otherwise what's to stop Tesco's telling us that there is a special
> offer on Mars bars?

Fair enough. I'd assumed that the offer would be welcome, given that:

a) I've been reading & posting on this group for a couple of years
b) the product was -supremely- relevant
c) neither myself nor my shop stood to make any profit whatsoever
d) the thread was preceded by FS:
e) it was after all a pretty good offer...

It appears that I was wrong.

Thank you to those of you who have placed orders already; they will be
supplied within the week as promised. Unfortunately I feel I have no
alternative but to withdraw the offer forthwith.

Live & learn, I guess.

Bernie

Malcolm wrote on Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:20:18 +0100....
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Bernie Hughes
> <[email protected]> writes
> >
> >It appears that I was wrong.
> >
> No, you weren't. If one miserable so-and-so wishes to quote the letter
> of the FAQ at you, then just ignore him. Those of us who have taken you
> up on your very kind offer are extremely grateful to you and I certainly
> had no problem whatsoever with your single advertising post.

FWIW I didn't have a problem with this advert either. In fact, I
might have placed an order, except that the maps I was after seem to
be sold out.

It's difficult to define the difference between an advert that's
acceptable (as I believe this one was) and one that isn't (such as if
Tesco tried to sell us Mars bars). No doubt that's why the charter
and the FAQ don't succeed in defining the difference. It's just
something that most of us know when we see it.

Maybe it's got something to do with the fact that Bernie is himself a
regular poster here, and so knows instinctively what most other users
are likely to find acceptable.

--
Tim Jackson
[email protected]lid
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

Malcolm <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> In article <[email protected]>, Bernie Hughes
> <[email protected]> writes
>>Martin Richardson wrote:
>>
>> > As it says in the FAQ:
>>> 1 Strictly speaking,
>>> ALL ADVERTS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE CHARTER
>>> However, by custom we are tolerant of occasional Personal
>>>For
>>> Sale adverts. Any such postings should be preceded with FS
>>> so those who wish to filter them may do so.
>>> I assume the word 'personal' refers to an individual not a shop.
>>>Otherwise what's to stop Tesco's telling us that there is a special
>>>offer on Mars bars?
>>
>>Fair enough. I'd assumed that the offer would be welcome, given that:
>>
>>a) I've been reading & posting on this group for a couple of years
>>b) the product was -supremely- relevant
>>c) neither myself nor my shop stood to make any profit whatsoever
>>d) the thread was preceded by FS:
>>e) it was after all a pretty good offer...
>>
>>It appears that I was wrong.
>>
> No, you weren't. If one miserable so-and-so wishes to quote the letter
> of the FAQ at you, then just ignore him. Those of us who have taken you
> up on your very kind offer are extremely grateful to you and I
> certainly had no problem whatsoever with your single advertising post.
>
Nor me! There's a rash of people quoting things that purport to be widely
accepted FAQs in ways that seem aimed at spoiling things for the regular
participants in this group. Ironically and sadly, Martin (a regular) has now
used the generally accepted FAQ to achieve the same result for the other
regulars - including Bernie.

>>Thank you to those of you who have placed orders already; they will be
>>supplied within the week as promised. Unfortunately I feel I have no
>>alternative but to withdraw the offer forthwith.
>>
>>Live & learn, I guess.
>>
> I am very sorry to hear this. I am confident that Martin is in a tiny
> minority here and I hope he will re-think his attitude, which I
> personally find petty, selfish and small-minded in the extreme.
>
Here here! You get plenty of support for your radical stance on cairns,
Martin, but judging from this thread you stand singularly alone in your
hostility to Bernie's very decent and transparent offer. I note you've
aready declined to apologise to Bernie but now it's time to apologise to the
rest of us. I, for one, was contemplating placing an order!

Stuart

Malcolm <[email protected]> wrote
>
>I am very sorry to hear this. I am confident that Martin is in a tiny
>minority here

It's worse than that, there is only one of him left!

> and I hope he will re-think his attitude, which I
>personally find petty, selfish and small-minded in the extreme.
>
Well, he kicks cairns over wearing only sandals, so his battered feet
give him a lot of pain. It's not easy for him....
--
Gordon
(If you have to include a smiley, it's not funny)

"Martin Richardson" wrote in message...
<snip>
> As it says in the FAQ:
>
> 1 Strictly speaking,
>
> ALL ADVERTS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE CHARTER
>
> However, by custom we are tolerant of occasional Personal For
> Sale adverts. Any such postings should be preceded with FS so
> those who wish to filter them may do so.
>
>
> I assume the word 'personal' refers to an individual not a shop.
> Otherwise what's to stop Tesco's telling us that there is a special
> offer on Mars bars?

Looks like we need a new charter. I believe relevant commercial adverts like
Bernie's are of benefit to this group and should be allowed. I'd advocate a
limit of one advert per month per company to keep things in order.

The quoted part of the FAQ mentions personal FS posts. I take it that
includes personal FA (For Auction) and FO (For Offer) posts too?

Cheers, Jiffy

PS: Jiffy's OS map collection = Plus 2. Thanks Bernie!

Gareth Babb wrote:

>
> I didn't have a problem with the original advert myself (though I accept it
> was against the charter, and letting through one can be a slippery slope)
> but I just thought the main problem with the offer was that Bernie didn't
> quote a price

Buy one get one free?

and his website is very ... content-abbreviated.

Unfortunately the website doesn't belong to me but to the company I work
for. And yes it's ****. I'm never done moaning about it...

Bernie

Gareth Babb wrote:


> As a followup to my own post, I now notice Bernie is using "uni-berlin.de" -
> he should be very careful posting *any* commercial post via this means, they
> have an absolute rock solid enforced policy on commercial posts via their
> news servers (ie. they are definately not allowed), be they within a group's
> charter or not.

I don't much like the (admittedly implausible) idea of being flung into
a Berlin jail on trumped-up Usenet Violation charges & left to rot, so
let's put an end to this whole thread.

If anybody wishes to spout abuse/defend honour/buy cheap maps, then
please feel free to contact me directly at bernie dot hughes @ johnsmith
dot co dot uk

There may well be a case for changing the charter; if anyone wishes to
argue the case for or against please start a new thread entitled
'Improving the charter'

Martin- come back out of hiding, I'm not going to challenge you to a
duel or anything.

Good night & thank you.

Bernie

[email protected] said...
> In message <[email protected]>, Malcolm
> <[email protected]> writes
> >
> >In article <[email protected]>, Steven
> >Gerrard <[email protected]> writes
> >>Looks dodgy
> >
> >Then your judgement is seriously at fault as the poster is the manager
> >of the John Smith and Son's Bookshop in Glasgow Caledonian University.
> >
> >Perhaps you should apologise to him.
> >
> Then shouldn't he be doing his marketing on the campus - not here.
>
I don't have a problem with Bernie having a special offer in his
shop and extending it to his friends here. He marked his initial
post "FS:" which told us all very clearly that something was for
sale. Does it really make any difference whether that something
is an offer on a map or a secondhand tent/sleeping bag/2" high
stove etc?
--
Fran
If you need my email address please ask.