Re: Fugawi UK ver 2 with much enhanced elevation data

Even if the elevation data *is* now better - and I see nothing on the site
that says it is different to version 1 - you have to buy the new version of
each CD you own. That is 4 CDs in my case, covering England N & S, Scotland
and Wales. You can you can get a £10 rebate (Presumably for each new CD?)
if you can find your original shop receipt, Registration form, sticker on
the original Jewel Case, send it away, jump through hoops, sign in
triplicate in blood, etc etc.

Not good enough Fugawi. They are offering very little to existing
customers. I won't be buying the new version, and would not buy Fugawi
again. I have already bought the maps once. I am not interested in "3d
fly-throughs" and such gimmickry. All I want is decent elevation data for
my EXISTING software, or a simple, reasonably-priced program upgrade that
can import the freely available and more accurate elevation data files. The
North American versions can - so why not the UK? Why should I buy the OS
data files all over again just to (perhaps) get better elevation data)? No
thanks.

Mr Magoo

"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Version 2 of FUGAWI UK has been released, which contains much better
> (50m spacing) elevation data.
>
> http://www.fugawi.com/docs/fugawiukintro.html
>
> (Also has full 3D features)
>
> -John
>
> Mr Magoo wrote:
> > Those of you who use Fugawi UK CDs may be interested in my mail to
> > Fugawi and their reply about their elevation data...
> >
> >
> > -----------------ORIGINAL MESSAGE--------------------
> >
> > >> Hi,
> >
> > >> In Fugawi UK (v3.1.0.473) in the area of the Wrekin Hill in
> > Shropshire -
> > >> SJ62847 08116 (52 40 09.23 N, 2 32 52.26 W) the elevation
> information
> > is
> > >> HUGELY in error. The summit of the hill is at 407 metres, but
> the
> > >> elevation data using the cursor in Fugawi says 246m. This is
> not just
> > the
> > >> effect of the 30 sec resolution of the elevation data and
> interpolation
> > of height
> > >> data from the nearest 4 spot readings. Looking at other parts
> of this
> > >> significantly-sized area of the Wrekin hill and ridge it seems
> the
> > whole
> > >> area of the hill has inaccurate elevation data in the database.
> Is
> > there
> > >> any way I can get better elevation data for this area and for
> the UK
> > >> version of Fugawi in general?
> >
> > >> Your web site seems totally biased towards US and Canada users
> and
> > mapping
> > >> and there is little help for Fugawi UK users. Can I download
> any more
> > >> accurate data that is compatible with Fugawi UK (v3.1.0.473) for
> the
> > area
> > >> of Great Britain? If so, where?
> >
> > >> I bought Fugawi UK to keep records of my walks and plot
> elevation
> > profiles
> > >> by marking my routes on the Ordnance Survey maps. I do not have
> or use
> > a
> > >> GPS. I am hugely disappointed in the apparent quality and
> accuracy of
> > the
> > >> data in the online database. In my 10 mile walk in the Wrekin
> area it
> > >> underestimated the amount of ascent by a good 40% Or maybe am I
> doing
> > >> something wrong in the way I am using the program?
> >
> >
> > >> Best wishes,
> > >> ... etc
> >
>

>
> Not good enough Fugawi. They are offering very little to existing
> customers.

Except that now AIUI coverage is completely seamless across the whole
country.

I've a few questions for them relating to Windows Mobile 2003, I'll
post back here when I know the answers...

--
Boo

Northport Systems, Manufacturer of FUGAWI software products responds:

The following information has been posted to assist with the
discussion of FUGAWI UK Digital Maps™ and its included elevation data.
Unfortunately this information will not provide the remedy that Magoo
is after, but it may help to make clear the reasons behind the FUGAWI
UK elevation data issues and the FUGAWI UK upgrade policy.

We appreciate the ongoing customer feedback we have received and value
the input on mapping software from the wider community.

"Even if the elevation data *is* now better - and I see nothing on the
site that says it is different to version 1…"

- The new FUGAWI UK Digital Maps™ version 2 elevation data are
extracted from NEXTMap Britain™, which includes a new elevation set,
developed by Intermap Technologies Inc. This is the latest source of
elevation data for the United Kingdom. The elevation data included in
FUGAWI UK have 50m horizontal spacing, which is one elevation data
point for every 10 pixels on the 1:50,000 scale maps.

The version 1 FUGAWI UK incorporated DTED elevation data, which had a
spacing of 900 meters. Northport Systems was not able to license a
more detailed elevation data set from the Ordnance Survey for a
personal use product. In earlier years, such a license was available.
Therefore, some other manufacturers had such a license agreement in
place. Users who rely heavily on the included elevation data in FUGAWI
UK may be disappointed, but we believe that the included features of
FUGAWI UK Digital Maps and its low retail price made it an excellent
value for the vast majority of users. The elevation issue is now
solved in FUGAWI UK version 2.

"…you have to buy the new version of each CD you own. That is 4 CDs
in my case, covering England N & S, Scotland and Wales. You can you
can get a £10 rebate (Presumably for each new CD?)" if you can find
your original shop receipt, Registration form, sticker on the original
Jewel Case, send it away, jump through hoops, sign in triplicate in
blood, etc etc."

- This is mostly correct, except for the last two clauses Full
terms of the rebate are available here:
http://www.fugawi.com/docs/Upgradeterms.pdf, but simplified, all one
needs to have before purchasing the new version is a version 1
product registered in their name, and its original media and cover.
(One only need retain the shop receipt for the new purchase of FUGAWI
version 2, not the receipt for the original version 1.) We believe it
is fair to ensure that we are supplying a rebate to a legitimate
customer.

See the next section for more information on why a £10.00 upgrade.

"Not good enough Fugawi. They are offering very little to existing
customers. I won't be buying the new version, and would not buy
Fugawi again. I have already bought the maps once. I am not
interested in "3d fly-throughs" and such gimmickry. All I want is
decent elevation data for my EXISTING software, or a simple,
reasonably-priced program upgrade that can import the freely available
and more accurate elevation data files. The North American versions
can - so why not the UK? Why should I buy the OS data files all over
again just to (perhaps) get better elevation data)?
No thanks. Mr Magoo"

- This issue relates entirely to the Ordnance Survey licensing
restrictions on consumer "personal-use" products – restrictions that
do not exist for very many other data sources, including most North
American data sources. Once a product is sold with included OS data,
we cannot issue new features or supply new data without collecting and
submitting the Ordnance Survey Royalty again. As the royalty on the
OS data is substantial, this prohibits us from issuing a free update
on the UK data. For this reason, we issue new features or new data to
the FUGAWI UK product line within a new version, for which there is a
charge. We could produce a product under a commercial license
agreement from the OS, which would be less restrictive. However, we do
not believe that the vast majority of personal-use customers would be
prepared to accept the price that such a product would command (due to
the commercial license pricing of Ordnance Survey data).

Our new FUGAWI UK Version 2 includes the latest 2004 OS maps, new
elevation data, 3D functionality, and support for new GPS receivers,
including USB Garmin products and Bluetooth, amongst others. We hope
that customers enjoy these new features and feel that a £39.99 upgrade
is a reasonable price to pay. We also understand that some customers
may not feel that this is good value and that they may not upgrade at
this time.

[email protected] www.fugawi.com

Regarding one item in Fugawi's input to this thread....

>"See the next section for more information on why a £10.00 upgrade"

No - it is not a £10 *upgrade* - it is a rebate. I cannot upgrade 4 new CDs
for £40.
I can go and buy the 4 for typically approximately £200, and claim 4 x £10
rebates.
Therefore you are talking about a £160 'upgrade' for the 4 CD set.

Magoo


"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Northport Systems, Manufacturer of FUGAWI software products responds:
>
> The following information has been posted to assist with the
> discussion of FUGAWI UK Digital MapsT and its included elevation data.
> Unfortunately this information will not provide the remedy that Magoo
> is after, but it may help to make clear the reasons behind the FUGAWI
> UK elevation data issues and the FUGAWI UK upgrade policy.
>
> We appreciate the ongoing customer feedback we have received and value
> the input on mapping software from the wider community.
>
> "Even if the elevation data *is* now better - and I see nothing on the
> site that says it is different to version 1."
>
> - The new FUGAWI UK Digital MapsT version 2 elevation data are
> extracted from NEXTMap BritainT, which includes a new elevation set,
> developed by Intermap Technologies Inc. This is the latest source of
> elevation data for the United Kingdom. The elevation data included in
> FUGAWI UK have 50m horizontal spacing, which is one elevation data
> point for every 10 pixels on the 1:50,000 scale maps.
>
> The version 1 FUGAWI UK incorporated DTED elevation data, which had a
> spacing of 900 meters. Northport Systems was not able to license a
> more detailed elevation data set from the Ordnance Survey for a
> personal use product. In earlier years, such a license was available.
> Therefore, some other manufacturers had such a license agreement in
> place. Users who rely heavily on the included elevation data in FUGAWI
> UK may be disappointed, but we believe that the included features of
> FUGAWI UK Digital Maps and its low retail price made it an excellent
> value for the vast majority of users. The elevation issue is now
> solved in FUGAWI UK version 2.
>
> ".you have to buy the new version of each CD you own. That is 4 CDs
> in my case, covering England N & S, Scotland and Wales. You can you
> can get a £10 rebate (Presumably for each new CD?)" if you can find
> your original shop receipt, Registration form, sticker on the original
> Jewel Case, send it away, jump through hoops, sign in triplicate in
> blood, etc etc."
>
> - This is mostly correct, except for the last two clauses Full
> terms of the rebate are available here:
> http://www.fugawi.com/docs/Upgradeterms.pdf, but simplified, all one
> needs to have before purchasing the new version is a version 1
> product registered in their name, and its original media and cover.
> (One only need retain the shop receipt for the new purchase of FUGAWI
> version 2, not the receipt for the original version 1.) We believe it
> is fair to ensure that we are supplying a rebate to a legitimate
> customer.
>
> See the next section for more information on why a £10.00 upgrade.
>
> "Not good enough Fugawi. They are offering very little to existing
> customers. I won't be buying the new version, and would not buy
> Fugawi again. I have already bought the maps once. I am not
> interested in "3d fly-throughs" and such gimmickry. All I want is
> decent elevation data for my EXISTING software, or a simple,
> reasonably-priced program upgrade that can import the freely available
> and more accurate elevation data files. The North American versions
> can - so why not the UK? Why should I buy the OS data files all over
> again just to (perhaps) get better elevation data)?
> No thanks. Mr Magoo"
>
> - This issue relates entirely to the Ordnance Survey licensing
> restrictions on consumer "personal-use" products - restrictions that
> do not exist for very many other data sources, including most North
> American data sources. Once a product is sold with included OS data,
> we cannot issue new features or supply new data without collecting and
> submitting the Ordnance Survey Royalty again. As the royalty on the
> OS data is substantial, this prohibits us from issuing a free update
> on the UK data. For this reason, we issue new features or new data to
> the FUGAWI UK product line within a new version, for which there is a
> charge. We could produce a product under a commercial license
> agreement from the OS, which would be less restrictive. However, we do
> not believe that the vast majority of personal-use customers would be
> prepared to accept the price that such a product would command (due to
> the commercial license pricing of Ordnance Survey data).
>
> Our new FUGAWI UK Version 2 includes the latest 2004 OS maps, new
> elevation data, 3D functionality, and support for new GPS receivers,
> including USB Garmin products and Bluetooth, amongst others. We hope
> that customers enjoy these new features and feel that a £39.99 upgrade
> is a reasonable price to pay. We also understand that some customers
> may not feel that this is good value and that they may not upgrade at
> this time.
>
> [email protected] www.fugawi.com

Thanks for noticing the typo, that sentence should read ..."£10.00
rebate". The next paragraph has it correctly described.

FUGAWI Sales www.fugawi.com


> No - it is not a £10 *upgrade* - it is a rebate. I cannot upgrade 4 new CDs
> for £40.
> I can go and buy the 4 for typically approximately £200, and claim 4 x £10
> rebates.
> Therefore you are talking about a £160 'upgrade' for the 4 CD set.
>
> Magoo
>

> Our new FUGAWI UK Version 2 includes the latest 2004 OS maps, new
> elevation data, 3D functionality, and support for new GPS receivers,
> including USB Garmin products and Bluetooth, amongst others. We hope
> that customers enjoy these new features and feel that a £39.99 upgrade
> is a reasonable price to pay. We also understand that some customers
> may not feel that this is good value and that they may not upgrade at
> this time.

Hi Mark,

If you are still there can you tell us what platforms the new software
supports on the PDA side ? I'm looking at getting some software to run
on a WinCE based Smartphone. Is your PDA software based on CE.NET or
the older CE 3.x ?

Also I am not clear from your reply above whether it is possible to buy
use the latest software with older maps ? I have Fugawi UK South
version 1, if I buy Fugawi UK North version 2 will it read my version 1
maps ?

Thanks,

--
Boo