Bloody dangerous

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:07:34 +0100, "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Take a look at this
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3683950.stm
>
>Hope it's not walkers/ramblers doing this stupidity.

I expect the culprit did walk to place them
The location says it all.. Probably locals having a laugh....

*****ds!!!

Richard Webb

Bob Hobden <[email protected]> wrote
>Take a look at this
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3683950.stm
>
>Hope it's not walkers/ramblers doing this stupidity.
>
>Imagine if someone came off their bike face down on these things. And what
>about walkers in thin shoes, horses, even a 4x4 with two or more tyres shot
>and no control.
>p.s. hope no-one else has mentioned it, been away.

May their jodhpurs split and their red coats fade....
--
Gordon

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]> from Bob
Hobden contained the following:

>Take a look at this
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3683950.stm
>
>Hope it's not walkers/ramblers doing this stupidity.
>
>Imagine if someone came off their bike face down on these things. And what
>about walkers in thin shoes, horses, even a 4x4 with two or more tyres shot
>and no control.
I was walking there last week and there are a lot of bikes. We gave
some assistance to some lost mountain bikers and would not dream of
taking such extreme measures but I can see how some people get annoyed.
There are, I believe, separate cycle paths but the cyclists seem to go
everywhere.

Can't see the appeal myself - on a bike you are that busy clanking along
the rough terrain you have no chance to see anything other than the
immediate road ahead.
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

Geoff Berrow wrote:

> There are, I believe, separate cycle paths but the cyclists
> seem to go everywhere.

That's all part of the fun.

> Can't see the appeal myself

Mountain biking is great fun - the challenge of negotiating difficult
terrain, interesting routes, great scenery. A lot more fun than
pedalling along the prom...

- on a bike you are that busy clanking
> along the rough terrain

Far more enjoyable than most other forms of exercise I can think of.

> you have no chance to see anything other than
> the immediate road ahead.

Like walkers with GPS can't see anything other than the screen in their
hands? Another daft myth. Mountain bikers can see and enjoy the
scenery just like everyone else, they just experience it in a different
way, and they don't stop to look at it like a photographer does, but
then neither do many walkers. I've seen ramblers so engrossed in
conversation with one another than they wouldn't notice any wildlife if
it ran across the path in front of them. I see a lot more when I go
walking alone.

Mountain bikers may not stop to ponder and stare at the scenery, but
they're not blind!

Actually, mountain biking is hard work, so there is plenty of time to
stop and stare while you're getting your breath back!

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]> from Paul
Saunders contained the following:

>> There are, I believe, separate cycle paths but the cyclists
>> seem to go everywhere.
>
>That's all part of the fun.

I'm sure it would be a lot of fun on a quad bike too. Your point is?

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:41:35 +0100, Geoff Berrow <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]> from Paul
>Saunders contained the following:
>
>>> There are, I believe, separate cycle paths but the cyclists
>>> seem to go everywhere.
>>
>>That's all part of the fun.
>
>I'm sure it would be a lot of fun on a quad bike too. Your point is?

No engine...

Nowt wrong with riding on the Chase... A lot wrong with terrorising
folk though, punish the individuals not everyone else.. Try speed
limits first.

There may be separate downhill areas, but not every one is into
that... Gentle touring has always been a feature of the Chase and
should continue. We are not all mountain bikers, and most mountain
bukers are safe and considerate.. Just leave those who behave
themselves alone.. Far too much banning going on.

Meanwhile get that prat with the nails, and bang it up. could be your
child's feet next.

Richard Webb

Geoff Berrow wrote:

>> That's all part of the fun.
>
> I'm sure it would be a lot of fun on a quad bike too. Your point is?

Well you said that you couldn't see the appeal. I can see the appeal,
so I was just trying to explain what the appeal was. Personally
knitting doesn't appeal to me, but I'm sure that many people find it
very enjoyable.

I agree though that often cycling and walking don't really mix. Ideally
it would be best to keep these activities separate, but unfortunaly
idealism and realism don't always match.

In my own experience though, what I'd class as good walking country and
good mountain biking country are quite different things. The hills of
South Wales provide excellent mountain biking routes through the
forestry, which is mostly pretty crappy terrain for walkers.

On the other hand, there are many great walking routes in the Beacons
that I wouldn't really wouldn't enjoy cycling along. In fact I've tried
cycling along some of them, so I speak from experience.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

RJ Webb wrote:

> No engine...

That's a big factor.

> We are not all mountain bikers, and most mountain
> bukers are safe and considerate.. Just leave those who behave
> themselves alone.. Far too much banning going on.

Thanks for that balanced view Richard.

I once rode a bicycle to Sgwd Gwladus. At one point I encountered a
group of walkers. The path was narrow so I just slowed down and cycled
slowly behind them until the path opened out once more. Then I cycled
slowly past. Got some really nasty looks. What had I done wrong
exactly?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I once rode a bicycle to Sgwd Gwladus. At one point I encountered a
> group of walkers. The path was narrow so I just slowed down and cycled
> slowly behind them until the path opened out once more. Then I cycled
> slowly past. Got some really nasty looks. What had I done wrong
> exactly?

You were clearly going to be getting to the pub ahead of them
--
Mark South, Super Genius: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"Paul Saunders" wrote after.
> RJ Webb wrote:
>
>> No engine...
>
> That's a big factor.
>
>> We are not all mountain bikers, and most mountain
>> bukers are safe and considerate.. Just leave those who behave
>> themselves alone.. Far too much banning going on.
>
> Thanks for that balanced view Richard.
>
> I once rode a bicycle to Sgwd Gwladus. At one point I encountered a
> group of walkers. The path was narrow so I just slowed down and cycled
> slowly behind them until the path opened out once more. Then I cycled
> slowly past. Got some really nasty looks. What had I done wrong
> exactly?
>
Well when we used to ride a lot in Windsor Great Park we had to share, in
some parts, with lots of walkers, joggers etc and that's why we both had
bells fitted. This was so we could give a little gentle tink tink warning as
we approached and we made sure they had heard us by watching for a reaction.
Nothing worse than a bike at speed missing your shoulder by 2ft when you
hadn't heard them coming.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]> from Paul
Saunders contained the following:

>I agree though that often cycling and walking don't really mix. Ideally
>it would be best to keep these activities separate, but unfortunaly
>idealism and realism don't always match.

I'm not arguing. Considerate bikers don't bother me at all. As ever
it's the minority that spoil it for everyone else. As a dog owner I'm
well aware of that.

Met a very considerate rider today. As she went past she asked if my
dog (who was off lead at the time) would be ok as she rode past. (he is,
but occasionally I make him lie down if they are travelling fast)

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

"Geoff Berrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]> from Bob
> Hobden contained the following:
>
> >Take a look at this
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3683950.stm
> >
> >Hope it's not walkers/ramblers doing this stupidity.
> >
> >Imagine if someone came off their bike face down on these things. And
what
> >about walkers in thin shoes, horses, even a 4x4 with two or more tyres
shot
> >and no control.
> I was walking there last week and there are a lot of bikes. We gave
> some assistance to some lost mountain bikers and would not dream of
> taking such extreme measures but I can see how some people get annoyed.
> There are, I believe, separate cycle paths but the cyclists seem to go
> everywhere.
>
> Can't see the appeal myself - on a bike you are that busy clanking along
> the rough terrain you have no chance to see anything other than the
> immediate road ahead.

Hehe, understandable I suppose. But when you've experienced life at 30mph on
terrain that is difficult to just walk over, only just managing to retain
control and avoid a great deal of pain, you'll understand why we do it. But
until then, trust me, mountain biking is like rock climbing, impossible to
explain to anybody that doesn't lke the taste of fear. ;o)

As an avid hillwalker, rock climber and mountain biker I reckon I have a
nicely balanced point of view on this....
Myself and my friends hurtle through woodland single track on our bikes but,
whenever we see people ahead, we always slow down. Most people are
considerate enough to move out of the way, and we ALWAYS say thankyou for
their consideration. The fact is, it is much easier for the walker to move
than the biker. However, on occasions (i.e. there's kids or a narrow
section) we are quite happy to dismount or move ourselves out of the way to
allow the walkers past. Afterall, the countryside wasn't built for walking
or biking, it's just there, so you must share it.

Nearly everyone seems happy with this and except for the odd grumble, we
rarely get complaints, however, some people seem to think that the sole
purpose for us being there is to terrorise them and that mountainbiking is
one step removed from mugging old ladies. To those people I'd like to say,
grow up! We're only there to enjoy ourselves, just like you. Purposley
blocking as much of the path as possible to stop us, compels the average
biker to teach you a lesson in momentum.

Conversely, if a biker shows no effort to at least slow down for oncoming
human traffic, feel free to chuck your walking pole through their spokes. As
I said above, you must share the countryside, as long as it isn't damaging
it, don't oppress other peoples choice of use.

Placing traps is utterly thoughtless and very dangerous for EVERYBODY.
I know of one place where some idiot spans fishing line, at neck height,
accross paths to stop bikers. Do these people have anything resembling a
brain?

Regards,

Nathan

"Geoff Berrow" <[email protected]> wrote

> Can't see the appeal myself - on a bike you are that busy clanking along
> the rough terrain you have no chance to see anything other than the
> immediate road ahead.

Depends where you're riding. I invariably see more in the way of wildlife
when biking rather than walking simply by covering a greater distance. The
bits where you need to keep your full attention on where your front wheel is
are only a small part of most natural routes. You just appreciate the
scenery in a different way on a bike. Rather than noticing each individual
tree you just kind of let the scenery wash over you as a whole. Try it.

>grow up! We're only there to enjoy ourselves, just like you. Purposley
>blocking as much of the path as possible to stop us, compels the average
>biker to teach you a lesson in momentum.

I do this to pavement cyclists... They nearly always return to the
road..

Richard Webb

RJ Webb wrote:

>> Purposley blocking as much of the path as possible to stop us,
>> compels the average biker to teach you a lesson in momentum.
>
> I do this to pavement cyclists... They nearly always return to the
> road..

It may be worth pointing out that when engaged in any kind of "sporting"
activity, particularly if one is timing oneself and trying to break a
record, or even just trying to maintain a pariticular pace (average
speed, heart rate monitor etc), then adrenalin levels tend to rise, and
with them a reduced tolerance for people trying to make a point of
getting in your way unnecessarily.

In other words, whilst a passing mountain biker may be a minor annoyance
for a walker, a stubborn path blocking walker may be a major annoyance
for a mountain biker, and when filled with adrenalin-boosted agression,
may respond a lot more negatively.

In terms of distance, a walker stepping aside for a moment to let a
cyclist pass loses very little, but for a cyclist travelling at a much
faster speed, having to slow down, wait for a while, then gradually
regain speed, not only is much momentum lost but a considerable distance
too. Now and again this is no problem, but if it happens a lot it can
have a major impact on a long distance cycle ride, a lot more than most
walkers realise.

Since I've done a bit of both, I can see both points of view, but
walkers annoy me far more when I'm cycling than cyclists do when I'm
walking. It's an adrenalin thing.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> wrote

> Since I've done a bit of both, I can see both points of view, but
> walkers annoy me far more when I'm cycling than cyclists do when I'm
> walking. It's an adrenalin thing.

Same here, although it's nothing to do with adrenaline having to slow down
to to almost a standstill every few minutes whilst people reign their dogs
in on the local converted railway path. But if you get up early enough you
can mostly have any path to yourself, walking or cycling. Or with the
nights drawing in now cycling in the dark is also an almost guaranteed way
to avoid people and a worthwhile experience for it's own sake.

RJ Webb <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>grow up! We're only there to enjoy ourselves, just like you. Purposley
>>blocking as much of the path as possible to stop us, compels the average
>>biker to teach you a lesson in momentum.
>
>I do this to pavement cyclists... They nearly always return to the
>road..
>
So do I, after all I'm expendable now, draining the exchequer with my
State Pension an' all that....

I'm afraid that as an ex Club, touring and racing cyclist in my teens, I
find that 98% of cyclists now give the rest of them a bad name.

The worst thing about the pavement riding is that they nip between
pavement and road ad-lib, making it impossible to anticipate their
reckless moves. They also ignore traffic lights and one-way street
signs, such that it is a pleasure and a rarity to see a 'real' cyclist
these days.
--
Gordon

Paul Saunders <[email protected]> wrote
>
>Since I've done a bit of both, I can see both points of view, but
>walkers annoy me far more when I'm cycling than cyclists do when I'm
>walking. It's an adrenalin thing.
>
It shouldn't be! Racing and pace-timing should be done on closed
roads and tracks, or like wot we did, start at 6am, and use less
frequented country roads or tracks.

We did a walk recently which covered a few miles of the Tissington
Trail, a disused railway track which has been converted for walkers and
cyclists.

It was purgatory, because we had to be constantly looking behind, for
fear of cyclists approaching silently and startling the hell out of us.
The hire bikes all have bells, but only a very small proportion use
them, most relying on a last-second squeal of brakes to warn walkers.

Usually, on rough tracks, you can hear them coming by the rattling of
badly maintained bikes, or the chattering of their teeth, but they
should still be sufficiently under control to stop if they approach a
deaf walker from behind, for example.

A stout wooden stick is more useful than a walking pole in some
circumstances. ;-)
--
Gordon

AndyP <[email protected]> wrote
>"Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Since I've done a bit of both, I can see both points of view, but
>> walkers annoy me far more when I'm cycling than cyclists do when I'm
>> walking. It's an adrenalin thing.
>
>Same here, although it's nothing to do with adrenaline having to slow down
>to to almost a standstill every few minutes whilst people reign their dogs
>in on the local converted railway path. But if you get up early enough you
>can mostly have any path to yourself, walking or cycling. Or with the
>nights drawing in now cycling in the dark is also an almost guaranteed way
>to avoid people and a worthwhile experience for it's own sake.
>
We are only to happy to step aside when considerate cyclists USE THEIR
BELLS, or shout a polite warning.
--
Gordon