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Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

post #1 of 47
6/18/04 at 11:43pm
Thread Starter 
I'm stunned.

Athletes, who can get huge endorsements if they win, are prepared to cheat
to do so.


"DRS" <drs@remove.this.ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:cavcnk$5k9$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> "A drug scandal has rocked Australia's Olympic preparations, with
explosive
> claims in Federal Parliament that up to six elite cyclists used an
> Australian Institute of Sport residence as a "shooting gallery"."
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...245113326.html
>
> --
>
> A: Top-posters.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
>
>
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post #2 of 47
6/19/04 at 1:48am

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

L'acrobat wrote:
> I'm stunned.
>
> Athletes, who can get huge endorsements if they win, are prepared to cheat
> to do so.

.... and then they don't like to pay tax on these endorsements:

From
<http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9888318%255E2702,00.html>

THE High Court will determine a test case on whether government grants
and prize money given to amateur athletes should be liable for taxation
because they constitute a business.

Justices Michael Kirby and Bill Gummow yesterday granted the federal
Taxation Commissioner leave to appeal a decision that javelin thrower
Joanna Stone's $136,448 in prizes and grants were tax-exempt because,
unlike sponsorships, they were not considered "carrying on a business".
.... etc etc

See also
<http://www.gf.com.au/articles_222.htm>
<http://www.olympics.com.au/default.asp?pg=home&spg=display&articleid=2502>

This ***** me. Why the hell shouldn't they pay tax? In this case the
claim that over $100k a year in earnings is not carrying on a business.
An amateur that gets $100k a year? I can understand someone who wins,
say $10k per annum not wanting to declare it as income, but come on.

Which leads me to another pet hate .. that professional athletes don't
have to pay back any of the money spent on them at the AIS. I have to
pay HECs on my university training, why can't they pay it on their
sports training?

- Munk3y
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post #3 of 47
6/19/04 at 6:55am

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

hippy wrote:
>
> You can't have it both ways... either ALL athletes pay tax on their
> winnings or none. That means that my $10 crit wins will now be $9..

It would be a simple matter to set an annual threshold, or have a tiered
system.
>
>
>>Which leads me to another pet hate .. that professional athletes don't
>>have to pay back any of the money spent on them at the AIS. I have to
>>pay HECs on my university training, why can't they pay it on their
>>sports training?
>
>
> Never thought about this. I thought it was all down to these guys having
> to give up everything in order to pursue a sport for the glory of the
> country..? or something like that

So if they do it for the glory of their country, then surely they
wouldn't mind paying tax on their earnings?
Like Pat Rafter being a citizen of Bermuda when he was awarded
Australian of the Year?

>
> Maybe they pay with their health by volunteering their bodies for all
> the testing, drugs, supplements, etc. they have to endure?

I don't they would do anything that is detrimental to their health. And
I'm sure they would all be queing up to sue AIS tested a drug on them
that was detrimental (pro sportsmen being a particularly litigious lot
these days).

>
> Remember that people going to uni/school on scholarships aren't paying
> for their education - same thing here?
>
> Check: http://www.ais.org.au/overview.htm
>
> hippy
>

The only uni graduates I know who don't pay HECS are the folks at ADFA.
... and I don't see any of them making $100k+ TAX FREE from endorsements
and winnings.

Even trainee police have to pay HECS to go to the police academy.

- Munk3y
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post #4 of 47
6/19/04 at 7:00am

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

Marty Wallace wrote:
> "hippy" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
> newsuTAc.53748$K3.39187@fe04.usenetserver.com...
>
>>>Originally posted by Unkey Munkey This ***** me. Why the hell shouldn't
>>>they pay tax? In this case the claim that over $100k a year in earnings
>>>is not carrying on a business. An amateur that gets $100k a year? I can
>>>understand someone who wins, say $10k per annum not wanting to declare
>>>it as income, but come on.
>>
>>You can't have it both ways... either ALL athletes pay tax on their
>>winnings or none. That means that my $10 crit wins will now be $9..
>>
>
>
> Hmm...
> So does that mean you can claim depreciation and maintainance costs of your
> bike?
> Or laundry costs of your cycling knicks?
> And travel costs for that last event you went to?
> And what about those Carboshotz? Are they to help you earn your income or
> did you eat them in your own time?
>
> Time to add another volume to the taxation rules.
>
> Marty "Tax Free" Wallace
>
>
You would only be able to claim against the proportion of tax paid on
your earnings for that activity, so in this case Hippy would get his $1
back.

- Munk3y
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post #5 of 47
6/19/04 at 7:21pm

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

hippy wrote:
>>>Unky posted this stuff: Justices Michael Kirby and Bill Gummow
>>>yesterday granted the federal Taxation Commissioner leave to appeal a
>>>decision that javelin thrower Joanna Stone's $136,448 in prizes and
>>>grants were tax-exempt because, unlike sponsorships, they were not
>>>considered "carrying on a business". ... etc etc
>
>
> Furthermore... (can you tell I'm up for a whinge/argument? )

... okay .. you, me , carpark - now!
>
> This explains the reasoning behind the decision:
> http://www.gf.com.au/articles_222.htm

yes, the descision found *against* her in respect of money earned from
appearance fees, sponsorships and endorsements. She didn't want to pay
tax on this money, I think she should, and the court agreed with me.

>
> A point to note: If you were skilled at darts or something and travelled
> around country fairs earning money on similar games of skill.. would you
> declare that income? Is it only because she earned $100k+ that it's an
> issue for you? Where's the cutoff? Is it okay to earn $20k prize money
> and not pay tax on it? $50k?

I can't see why not. Musicians, poets and artists are assessed on all
their income, I can't see what makes sportspeople a special case.

>
> Just out of curiosity - how much tax does Tiger Woods or Michael
> Jordan pay?
>

No idea, but probably more than me.


- Munk3y
... proving that you can't avoid death, taxes, and hearing my opinion.
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post #6 of 47
6/19/04 at 11:51pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

"hippy" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:FgTAc.27438$tF1.20121@fe46.usenetserver.com...
> >Originally posted by L'Acrobat Athletes, who can get huge endorsements
> >if they win, are prepared to cheat to do so.
>
> Is it still cheating if everyone is doing it?
>

Yes.
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post #7 of 47
6/20/04 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

"ProfTournesol" <deepthoughtpsych@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:bVdBc.34966$756.16763@fe23.usenetserver.com...
> Unkey Munkey wrote:
> > L'acrobat wrote:
> > > I'm stunned.
> > Which leads me to another pet hate .. that professional athletes don't
> > have to pay back any of the money spent on them at the AIS. I have to
> > pay HECs on my university training, why can't they pay it on their
> > sports training?
> > - Munk3y
>
>
>
> you're right. You shouldn't have to pay HECS either. Education is a
> community investment.

That depends on the course. A great many in the community resent paying tax
so some pretentious git can do a "gender studies" course that will return
nothing to the community.
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post #8 of 47
6/20/04 at 11:04am

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

hippy wrote:
>>Originally posted by Unkey Munkey
>>
>>>hippy wrote: Furthermore... (can you tell I'm up for a
>>>whinge/argument? )
>>
>>.. okay .. you, me , carpark - now!
>
>
> Do you know how big I am? :P

hmm ... If you think I'm going to lower the tone of this thread with
crude sexual innuendo then you can think again! :P

>
>
>>>This explains the reasoning behind the decision:
>>>http://www.gf.com.au/articles_222.htm
>>
>>yes, the descision found *against* her in respect of money earned from
>>appearance fees, sponsorships and endorsements. She didn't want to pay
>>tax on this money, I think she should, and the court agreed with me.
>
>
> Okay, but this wasn't her prize money. I agree that appearance fees
> should be treated as income, just not prize money.
>

I'll agree with you there. I'll back off on the prizemoney bit. It just
got my hackles up that she didn't want to declare appearance fees,
sponsorship and endorsements as income.
I think my boss should pay me an appearance fee for turning up to work!

- Munk3y
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post #9 of 47
6/20/04 at 9:42pm

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling (really nothing to do withtopic anymore)

hippy wrote:
>
> >Originally posted by L'Acrobat
> >>Someone else wrote: you're right. You shouldn't have to pay HECS
> >>either. Education is a community investment.
> >
> >That depends on the course. A great many in the community resent paying
> >tax so some pretentious git can do a "gender studies" course that will
> >return nothing to the community.
>
> So... where do I enrol for gender studies? Do I get to pick the
> gender? ;-D
>
> hippy
>
> --
You can do gender studies online for free at your local library branch.
Welcome to self-education people, it's cheap and all you need is a brain
that works well enough to separate reality from fiction. Given that
there are some uni courses with poor graduate job outcomes, and some
courses that are basically a few academics telling the students which
books and web sites to read, that resentment is a little understandable.
I don't resent funding education but I do resent the devaluing of uni
degrees as a result of every high school student being pretty much
forced into uni (i.e. by being made to feel inadequate without a
degree). So now to get a job from your degree requires you to graduate
with a top GPA instead of just passing, etc., because of the viewpoint
that "everyone goes to uni".

But if we're going to talk about that kind of stuff well I resent paying
money to pretty much anything that doesn't help me in some way, I think
the education we should be funding should be DRIVER education so they
don't run cyclists off the road.

Had that thing the other day where a truck veered back across in front
of me and ended up clearing me by a few cm, it was pretty scary and I
thought that if I'd had an itty-bitty helmet-mounted camera the footage
would've been great for a tv ad... so anyone who has computer/film/tv
geek friends with a little camera if you get the chance to do this
please take the offer.

Tam
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post #10 of 47
6/21/04 at 12:09am
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

"hippy" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:yxgBc.38417$5%6.9932@fe06.usenetserver.com...
> >Originally posted by L'Acrobat
> >>Someone else wrote: you're right. You shouldn't have to pay HECS
> >>either. Education is a community investment.
> >
> >That depends on the course. A great many in the community resent paying
> >tax so some pretentious git can do a "gender studies" course that will
> >return nothing to the community.
>
> So... where do I enrol for gender studies? Do I get to pick the
> gender? ;-D

Think of the sort of things you could try to introduce for credit as
"recognition of prior learning".
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post #11 of 47
6/22/04 at 8:21am
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

Yes, they'll choose cheating but that doesn't change the fact that it IS
cheating..

It isn't just the dictionary definition, its the common definition, the
legal definition and the actual cycling federation definition.



"hippy" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:m5gBc.67493$mX2.58543@fe15.usenetserver.com...
> >Originally posted by Shane Stanley
> >> hippy <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> >> Is it still cheating if everyone is doing it?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> Mmm maybe if you follow the dictionary definition.. but if these guys
> have a choice of taking drugs and competing at the top level or not
> taking drugs and never seeing top level competition, I know which option
> most will choose..
>
> hippy
>
>
>
> --
>
>
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post #12 of 47
6/22/04 at 7:30pm

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

hippy <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> writes:

> >Originally posted by Unkey Munkey This ***** me. Why the hell shouldn't
> >they pay tax? In this case the claim that over $100k a year in earnings
> >is not carrying on a business. An amateur that gets $100k a year? I can
> >understand someone who wins, say $10k per annum not wanting to declare
> >it as income, but come on.
>
> You can't have it both ways... either ALL athletes pay tax on their
> winnings or none. That means that my $10 crit wins will now be $9..

Not necceryally. You can have a threashold over which you should be
considered a bizzness.

--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.
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post #13 of 47
6/22/04 at 10:32pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

Did he? the bastard! I say we hunt him down and snip his extraneous
material!

Get the pitchforks and torches, we is formin' a mob!


"DRS" <drs@remove.this.ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:cb9fi6$vkb$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> "Marty Wallace" <mart@geo.net.au> wrote in message
> news:40d83142$0$29888$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au
>
> [...]
>
> > Oh no!!!
> > You top posted!
> > We'll never hear the end of it now!
> > Woe is us.
>
> And you left in extraneous quoted material. Are you done making a fool of
> yourself now?
>
> --
>
> A: Top-posters.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
>
>
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post #14 of 47
6/23/04 at 9:13pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

Dear, dear, ad hom AND swearing! what a rude person.


"DRS" <drs@remove.this.ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:cbbtc9$ke8$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> "L'acrobat" <husky.65@delete_me.bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:u45Cc.50361$sj4.34703@news-server.bigpond.net.au
> > Did he? the bastard! I say we hunt him down and snip his extraneous
> > material!
> >
> > Get the pitchforks and torches, we is formin' a mob!
>
> You really are a ****wit.
>
> --
>
> A: Top-posters.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
>
>
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post #15 of 47
6/24/04 at 2:37am
Thread Starter 

Re: Drug scandal rocks Australian cycling

Dammit man you are top posting!


"flyingdutch" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:YGrCc.110102$L73.31541@fe29.usenetserver.com...
> We have ALL been here L'Acrobat and Drs.
>
> we no longer care
>
> ( altho Im just a tad curious to know what " -- " is...)
>
> start your own thread and go hammer-n-tong all you like. We got the
> message the first 9,723 times
>
>
>
> --
>
>
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