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post #16 of 346

Re: funny things to do on a bike

"jake jamison" <j_jamison@hotmale.com> wrote in message
news:78umc.6892$8S1.1328@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> this morning on my way to the bus stop i was ridding my bike along the

usual
> sidewalk stretch next to this lame housing development, (there is a lot of
> entrance to the sidewalk from the houses their, so many stoopd people

walking
> out f it always), so for whatever reason i decide to bark real loud at

whoever
> is on the sidewalk. i come zooming up to this once couple who were not

looking,
> *ruff! ruff!* they just about jumped out of there skin. this one other

lady
> practicly had a heart attack she was so scred *RUFF! WOOF!* when i look

back she
> is actualy clutcing her chest!
>
> anyway just thught i would share, it was pertty funny!!!


Yes that was funny, about as hilarious as your pathetic troll attempt.


Keep up the decidedly below average work.


Shaun aRe
post #17 of 346

Re: funny things to do on a bike

On Thu, 6 May 2004 21:58:19 -0700, tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:

> cannot respect people who use their bicycles to sneak up
>behind pedestrians and scare the livin' daylights outa them,
>as 'cyclists'. They'll just have to make do with being
>People On Bikes. As a matter of fact, most of the time I just
>regard myself as just a 'rider' -- it feels less onerous.


Yet every day, I pass a Ped with three dogs and one or more of them
suddenly start barking like crazy and scare me enough to make me jump; yes,
even though I partially expect it.

I often feel the urge to go up behind the Ped on the second lap and start
barking like a maniac. ;-p

Sadly, my better judgement takes hold and I say and do nothing.

-B
post #18 of 346

Re: funny things to do on a bike

Fri, 07 May 2004 08:00:44 -0700,
<tmorse-3954A5.08004407052004@news.covad.net>, Terry Morse
<tmorse@spamcop.net> wrote:

>Zoot Katz wrote:
>
>> I think he used to also quote Murphy: "Do not ascribe to maliciousness
>> what can be ascribed to incompetence, ignorance, and insensibility."

>
>I think you're referring to Hanlon, not Murphy:
>
>http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?HanlonsRazor


You're probably right. Thanks for the correction.
I pasted it from a document attributing it to
Murphy. I'd searched on "ascribe to maliciousness" looking for a
reference.

http://www.virginia.edu/uvanewsmaker.../oconnell.html

Hanlon's uses "malice", a better word. I wasn't comfortable with the
repetition of "ascribe" in the quote I'd found, just lazy.

I prefer the phrasing of the translated version attributed to
Napoleon: "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by
incompetence."

Thanks again.
--
zk
post #19 of 346

Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

"Tom Keats" <tomk2003@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8jti7c.q6a.ln@bud.garden.local...
> In article <40e24314.55711191@news.individual.net>,
> Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> writes:
> > Thu, 6 May 2004 20:01:28 -0700, <86ue7c.rd3.ln@bud.garden.local>,
> > tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:

>
> >>Bike-haters were just born that way.

> >
> > The stereotypes and prejudices are built into the car-centric culture,
> > language and infrastructure. It's reinforced by restrictive
> > legislation and redneck radio.

>
> There are some who really have a hate-on for bikes and the people
> who ride them. I think it springs more from nature than nurture.
> These people seem to have a pathological need to hate something/
> somebody, and bikes are one target of opportunity. I suppose
> there are elements of both nature and nurture in their attitudes.


This is how I see it. There are some people who believe that the world is a
nasty, competitive place. They live as atomized individuals, and see the
world as made up of individuals, all of whom need to step on each other to
get ahead.

In addition to lacking a sense of connection to others, and seeing the world
in these bleak terms, they also feel relatively powerless. Working class
people by the very nature of how our society is structured do not have a
great deal of control over their work lives, and don't have a great deal of
money to change things.

So here they are, feeling powerless, fearful, and disconnected. They have no
ways to be compassionate towards themselves and this powerless, fearful side
of themselves. Instead, they despise this part of themselves, which they
understand to be weak.

One way people deal with hating a part of themselves is that they push off
what they don't like on to other people. In the case of these people who
feel fearful and powerless, they instead identify others as weak, and then
hate them for having those characteristics. It's much safer to hate others
than to hate yourself. Also, it is easy to fall into the belief that if you
only get rid of those people who embody that which you can't stand about
yourself, then everything will be all right.

Cyclists are identified as physically weak compared to cars. We don't go as
fast, we don't have a steel cage around us for protection. Thus, as
something that is weaker than the motorist, we are despised. But we are only
despised to the extent that the motorist hates his own powerlessness in
traffic.

That "redneck" stations should encourage violence against cyclists is not
surprising. Working class white men are in an interesting situation. As
whites and men, they have a certain sense of entitlement, but because of
their education, background, etc. they will not be among the power elites.
There's a certain amount of frustration boiling in them. At the same time,
working class white men are among the few in American society (not sure
about other countries) where they have had a certain amount of tolerance, if
not outright encouragement, in externalizing their dark sides on to others,
and then committing acts of violence against those others. In this
situation, we get outright encouragement.

> We've heard the conjecture that this is the result of accumulated
> bad experiences & encounters with cyclists. I don't believe it is.


I agree.

> I think their anger and hate is simply innate; it's their natures
> to be like that.


It is the nature of our ego minds to try to externalize what we don't like
in ourselves on to others, and then try to eliminate that characteristic in
them, or in a more extreme form, eliminate those people all together.

However, we don't have to collapse into that sort of behavior. If we
acknowledge our shadow selves, the parts of us that are violent, angry,
fearful (etc.), and are compassionate with ourselves for being that way, we
are then facilitating our own healing, rather than sending out destructive
feelings and actions into the world.


Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
post #20 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

"Claire Petersky" <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>working class white men are among the few in American society (not sure
>about other countries) where they have had a certain amount of tolerance, if
>not outright encouragement, in externalizing their dark sides on to others,
>and then committing acts of violence against those others. In this
>situation, we get outright encouragement.


Hmmmm, I must not have been paying attention in school when I got this
"lesson". Perhaps they didn't teach me to commit acts of violence
because of my American Indian blood (only 1/8th, but I suppose you
can't be too careful when you're teaching an entire population to
"commit acts of violence").

Was it taught in social studies, or maybe in shop? I didn't take
shop, so might have missed my opportunity to be encouraged to commit
acts of violence.

Mark "probably not the only thing I missed in my education" Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #21 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Sun, 09 May 2004 15:43:58 -0700,
<epct90163mq1tm1p6kkntlgkcnk8qcuiig@4ax.com>,
Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:

>Was it taught in social studies, or maybe in shop? I didn't take
>shop, so might have missed my opportunity to be encouraged to commit
>acts of violence.


Off the top of my head:
Language, Football, War toys and entertainment, Wild West myths
sanitising genocide and occupation.
--
zk
post #22 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:

>Sun, 09 May 2004 15:43:58 -0700,
><epct90163mq1tm1p6kkntlgkcnk8qcuiig@4ax.com>,
>Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>>Was it taught in social studies, or maybe in shop? I didn't take
>>shop, so might have missed my opportunity to be encouraged to commit
>>acts of violence.

>
>Off the top of my head:
>Language,


??? When are white males encouraged to commit violence via language?
If there is systematic encoragement to do so, it seems to be more
centered around the rap demographic - and that's hardly "100% white
male".

> Football,


That's hardly random violence. And hardly "white".

>War toys


I dunno... I think most kids can distinguish between playing army and
smacking someone with a rock. One is not violence, the other is. I'd
also maintain that playing army isn't any more common among white kids
than it is any other race (just a guess though).

>and entertainment, Wild West myths
>sanitising genocide and occupation.


I don't get the connection between this and "modern violence". Even
though I can legally be considered Cherokee, no "cowboy" has ever
tried to shoot me (though a few of 'em did come pretty close to
running me down in their pickup trucks). Oops, I'm starting to sound
like Jobst... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #23 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmmm, I must not have been paying attention in school when I got this
> "lesson". Perhaps they didn't teach me to commit acts of violence
> because of my American Indian blood (only 1/8th, but I suppose you
> can't be too careful when you're teaching an entire population to
> "commit acts of violence").


Remember the field game, "smear the queer"? Cowboys and Indians?
Cops and robbers? Prison ball?

I was a boy in White suburban America, and I know that vein of
darkness runs deep. You don't just put that stuff behind you; it
comes out somehow. In the mainstream culture it manifests as
dog-eat-dog economics, contempt for the poor, race hatred, an
insatiable appetite for punishing transgressors, and pointlessly
competitive play.

Have you noticed how every game your society taught you during your
upbringing has to have a winner and a loser? That trains you to
erroneously attribute prosperity (winning) to virtue and poverty
(losing) to personal failings.

One can reject lots of the popular conventions for exercising nescient
aggression, but still be stuck with the abstracted anger and
vengefulness that is the residue of a long social education in
institutional violence. I don't like it, and I don't know what to do
with it, but there it is.

Chalo Colina
post #24 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Stephen Harding <harding@cs.umass.edu> wrote:

> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
> > Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Was it taught in social studies, or maybe in shop? I didn't take
> >>shop, so might have missed my opportunity to be encouraged to commit
> >>acts of violence.

> >
> > Off the top of my head:
> > Language, Football, War toys and entertainment, Wild West myths
> > sanitising genocide and occupation.

>
> I didn't know Canadian education was so multi-dimensional.


Zoot has not always been Canadian. He grew up an American boy like
you or me, and got the education to go with. In his young adulthood
he undertook to heal himself, so he left the cradle of his youthful
illness.

Chalo Colina
post #25 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Mon, 10 May 2004 07:15:44 -0700,
<p63v90pkfhe0pn7fu7m665algoo1s4qail@4ax.com>, Mark Hickey
<mark@habcycles.com> wrote:

>>Language,

>
>??? When are white males encouraged to commit violence via language?


As soon as they learn that words can effectively hurt others by
negating their humanity. Language is most damaging when it's used to
disguise the violence. Witness the current overuse of "abuse" when
what's really meant is "torture". The Afghan and Iraqi children killed
by misdirected or faulty PGM are "collateral damage" yet when Timothy
McVeigh used those words to describe the dead children in Oklahoma
City he was portrayed as a callus and cold blooded murderer.
Saddam is "evil", Bin Laden a "monster", but that's entirely
acceptable as long as they're your monsters doing your evil bidding.

>>War toys

>
>I dunno... I think most kids can distinguish between playing army and
>smacking someone with a rock. One is not violence, the other is.


They teach children that violence is a valid form of conflict
resolution. Playing with war toys and watching violent war cartoons
desensitises children to the harm done by violence. It's that
indifference to violence that's the more damaging flip-side of your
violent militaristic society.
"War on Obesity", "War on Terrorism", "War on Illiteracy", "War on
Drugs", "War on Inflation". War is the answer to all of America's
problems.

>>and entertainment, Wild West myths
>>sanitising genocide and occupation.

>
>I don't get the connection between this and "modern violence"


The systematic reduction of a whole people to the sub-human status of
"savage" is ongoing. It's a necessary precondition for waging war.
Children must be indoctrinated from an early age because your economy
is based on waging war.
--
zk
post #26 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:

>Mon, 10 May 2004 07:15:44 -0700,
><p63v90pkfhe0pn7fu7m665algoo1s4qail@4ax.com>, Mark Hickey
><mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>>>Language,

>>
>>??? When are white males encouraged to commit violence via language?

>
>As soon as they learn that words can effectively hurt others by
>negating their humanity.


<snip the rest>

Even assuming that what you say is true, what make it truer for a
white male than anyone else? Girls don't learn to "hurt each other
with their words"??? (in fact, I suspect they're much better at it
than us guys will ever be).

I haven't seen anything that makes me think any of this is race or
gender-specific. Am I missing something?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #27 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

chumpychump@hotmail.com (Chalo) wrote:

>Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hmmmm, I must not have been paying attention in school when I got this
>> "lesson". Perhaps they didn't teach me to commit acts of violence
>> because of my American Indian blood (only 1/8th, but I suppose you
>> can't be too careful when you're teaching an entire population to
>> "commit acts of violence").

>
>Remember the field game, "smear the queer"? Cowboys and Indians?
>Cops and robbers? Prison ball?


Cowboys and Indians, maybe. But I don't recall there being any real
advantage to being one or the other (since no real violence was done).
I've never heard of "smear the queer" or "prison ball".

>I was a boy in White suburban America, and I know that vein of
>darkness runs deep. You don't just put that stuff behind you; it
>comes out somehow. In the mainstream culture it manifests as
>dog-eat-dog economics, contempt for the poor, race hatred, an
>insatiable appetite for punishing transgressors, and pointlessly
>competitive play.


I guess I missed all that somehow. OK, maybe the pointlessly
competitive play - but to be honest that's pretty much something that
manifests itself in cycling (though it doesn't bother me a bit if I
run into someone out there who's faster - it's all a game).

>Have you noticed how every game your society taught you during your
>upbringing has to have a winner and a loser? That trains you to
>erroneously attribute prosperity (winning) to virtue and poverty
>(losing) to personal failings.


Heaven forbid anyone should try to do better. There ARE "winners and
losers" in nearly every real-world situation. There's nothing wrong
with competition and achievement, regardless of what the hopelessly PC
would have you believe. I've never attributed prosperity to winning
and poverty to losing... there are plenty of evil rich people and
noble poor folks. And vice versa.

>One can reject lots of the popular conventions for exercising nescient
>aggression, but still be stuck with the abstracted anger and
>vengefulness that is the residue of a long social education in
>institutional violence. I don't like it, and I don't know what to do
>with it, but there it is.


I can only suggest that it's hardly a universal problem - or that
perhaps I was a lousy "student". I feel none of the angst you suggest
I should.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #28 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

In article <qfdo7c.oi4.ln@bud.garden.local>,
tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:

> I've seen how easy it is for the Powers That Be to inflict MHLs.
> Inflicting mandatory bicycle registration could be a cake-walk
> for them. That would really give the bike-haters extra ammunition.
>
> cheers,
> Tom


I think you're forgetting that most local municipalities used to have
mandatory bike registration. Those licencing tags on older bikes are not
just for show. I'm old enough to remember when I needed to get a sticker
for my bike.

For various reasons, the most notable probably being the widespread
disregard for licences and the desire to encourage cycling, virtually
all local jurisdictions have ended their bike-licence programs. I don't
know what the situation is like outside of Greater Vancouver.

Still waiting for a mandatory bicycle law,
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
post #29 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/6.1.html

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #30 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> I think you're forgetting that most local municipalities used to have
> mandatory bike registration. Those licencing tags on older bikes are not
> just for show. I'm old enough to remember when I needed to get a sticker
> for my bike.


yea, for me that was 2002. minneapolis repealed it after police abuse became
just a bit too obvious (the cops were impounding unregistered bikes during
critical mass specifically, anytime they felt like it in general. there was
no provision for impounding in the law).

i'm opposed to MHL only a bit less than mandatory licensing laws.

> Still waiting for a mandatory bicycle law,


heh. i wouldn't want that either.
--
david reuteler
reuteler@visi.com
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