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post #91 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

James Calivar wrote:

> "Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
> news:40a8ea1d$1@news.ysu.edu...
>
>> Ahead of time, you were one of
>>those claiming with absolute certainty that Saddam was aiming his WMDs,
>>and that international disaster was certain if we didn't invade
>>immediately. Now that you were proved wrong,

>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Looks like you might be eating crow. Hear the news today?


Oh please. Are you saying that one unlabeled and unrecognized shell was
the very thing Saddam was aiming at - what? - the White House? Is that
what this hundred billion dollar fiasco was supposed to disarm?

As I recall, there was supposed to be tons of such stuff, and it was
supposed to be ready to go in 45 minutes.

Do you suppose they lost the locker combination? Is that why it wasn't
used during the invasion?


--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

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post #92 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>Bob Hunt writes:
>
>>> You don't seem to realize what coercion and ridicule showered on
>>> congressmen and senators who did not agree.

>
>> So if things get too hard it's okay to abandon one's beliefs? That
>> speaks volumes about those that are only now voicing their
>> objections.

>
>Get with reality. If no one, constituents or the administration, is
>standing up for the issue as he believes, a legislator is out in the
>cold and due for replacement. After all they are supposed to
>represent their constituents. We are getting the government we
>deserve. I hope you didn't miss the flag waving that went on at the
>time. We still have plenty of folks who have flags fluttering from
>their cars and draped on the front of their houses, especially in
>rural areas... and Mark Hickey.


Strangely, no one has attempted to drape a flag on me yet.

BTW, did you catch the news about the sarin gas bomb going off in Iraq
today? Didn't seem to show up on CNN for some reason.

But it couldn't have been a sarin gas bomb, 'cuz Jobst sez there ain't
no WMD in Iraq. Curious.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #93 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Tom Sherman <tsherman@qconline.com> wrote:

>Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> The Iraqi insurgents use civilians as shields...

>
>The Iraqis attacking the occupying forces are not insurgents, but a
>legitimate (by international law and convention) resistance opposing a
>foreign occupation.


Whatever. They're really just targets. I heard Kerry refer to Al
Sadr as a "legitimate voice", then immediately waffle on the
statement. Those doing the fighting in Iraq are no more
representative of the vast majority of the Iraqis than the skinheads
are in the US.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #94 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> wrote:

>Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>>
>> Fact is, Saddam was going to be taken down eventually (at least as
>> soon as he ran out of money to bribe the French with...), and the US
>> was going to shoulder the majority of the workload, as always. The
>> end result would have been pretty much identical, with the possible
>> exception of inept UN leadership and corruption making things worse.

>
>:-) Yep, so we let inept US leadership and corruption do that job! By
>golly, we'll show the world we can be as inept and corrupt as anyone!
>
>
>It astounds me how glibly you and your compatriots have changed the
>justification for the conquest of Iraq. Ahead of time, you were one of
>those claiming with absolute certainty that Saddam was aiming his WMDs,
>and that international disaster was certain if we didn't invade
>immediately. Now that you were proved wrong, you've not even hinted at
>an apology. Instead, you've started singing "But Saddam was a bad man,"
>as if that justifies this fiasco.


Oops. You must have hated to hear about that sarin gas bomb going off
in Iraq today.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #95 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Top Sirloin <scottjohnson@tornadosaregood.planetkc.com> wrote:

>Let's review everything they've said since Sept 11th:


Thanks - that would really be funny if there weren't so many saying
all those (contradictory) things - and somehow meaning them.

Amazing.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #96 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <outlook.bugs@microsoft.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 17 May 2004 14:22:54 -0400, Top Sirloin
><scottjohnson@tornadosaregood.planetkc.com> wrote in message
><10ai4985eibh9d6@corp.supernews.com>:
>
>>Don't bother Mark. The liberals are only
>>interested in spewing lies, hatred and confusion
>>so they can get back in power and go back to doing
>>nothing about terrorism,

>
>That will be why America was subjected to its worst terrorist attack
>shortly after that notorious liberal George W Bush's foreign policy
>started to take effect, then.


So 'splain to me why the plan and training was developed, financed and
set in motion during the Clinton years. And then you can start
explaining the USS Cole and the attacks on US embassies, etc.

Were the terrorists really so tuned into US politics that they knew
GWB was going to be elected years before he ran?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #97 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

ML <mlockerLoves2Ski@us.ibm.com> wrote:

>I would personally vote for a snake (or gorilla) before I would vote for
>George Bush.


Which speaks volumes.

>I'm not a big fan of Kerry but I would trust him to
>generally tell the truth, not be in all big businesses back pocket, and
>above all to make intelligent decisions based on all the best
>information at that time. George Bush's decisions are based on which
>business friends will benefit the most, or which conservative honcho is
>bending his ear. I don't consider this a good mix for my president.


Yeah, look how GWB let Enron run out of control. Errrr, no, that was
before him. Well look at how he let 'em get away with everything.
Oops, no they were taken down under GWB's administration.

I know - look at how he relaxed polutions standards lovingly put in
place by the Clinton administration so the energy companies could make
big bucks. Errrr, no... it seems that while Clinton actually did
nothing to reduce polution from power plants, Bush actually passed
legislation to reduce mercury (and other) emissions by 70%.

Besides, Kerry is the one promising BIGGER tax cuts to businesses than
Bush.

Oh, the irony.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #98 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Tom Sherman <tsherman@qconline.com> wrote:

>James Calivar wrote:


>>>It astounds me how glibly you and your compatriots have changed the
>>>justification for the conquest of Iraq. Ahead of time, you were one of
>>>those claiming with absolute certainty that Saddam was aiming his WMDs,
>>>and that international disaster was certain if we didn't invade
>>>immediately. Now that you were proved wrong,

>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Looks like you might be eating crow. Hear the news today?

>
>Considering the confusion that must have been generated during the 1991
>Gulf War combined with the bombing of chemical weapons dumps during that
>conflict, it would not be surprising that some weapons would be
>unaccounted for by both UN inspectors and the Iraqi government/military.
>It does not by any stretch of the imagination prove that Iraq had a
>usable chemical weapons program prior to the US/UK invasion.


Oh, so now it's not "no WMD" but "not as many as we thought" (though
that would more accurately have to be changed to "not as many as the
UN weapons ispectors thought, and the Clinton administration thought,
and..." oh, you get the idea).

In the end, if the fact that WMD *are* showing up in Iraq disappoints
you, I feel very, very sorry for you.

>And it should not be forgotten that the vast majority of chemical
>weapons possessed by Iraq in the past were battlefield weapons, and by
>no means "weapons of mass destruction", especially in comparison to
>nuclear weapons.


Heh... a moving target to be sure. I don't suppose it matters much to
you what is found in Iraq, does it?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
post #99 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Hunrobe wrote:

> I find the situation in Iraq somewhat analogous to a police shooting of a
> suspect that appears to be armed with a gun. The police order the suspect
> repeatedly to drop his weapon. He repeatedly refuses. After numerous warnings,
> the police shoot the suspect only to find out that the gun was a non-firing
> replica. The critics and Monday morning quarterbacks then begin to refer to the
> dead suspect as "an unarmed man".


Perhaps a more accurate analogy would be this:

We get a tip that a felon has an illegal gun in his house.

Someone gets a search warrant. They find no gun.

A certain cop says "He must have it. We didn't see him throw it away."

The felon says "Hey, you dumb jerks, I got no gun."

Cop says "He's lying. Besides, he beats his wife. Search again."

No gun.

Cop says "Check again, dammit. We didn't see him throw it away!"

No gun.

Cop says "Dammit, I know he's got a gun. I'm going in shooting." And
he does.

No gun is found. Turns out he just pretended to have a gun so his
wife's brother wouldn't beat the tar out of him.

Cop says "Well, he was a nasty guy anyway. He deserved to be shot."

Wife says "Get the hell out of my house."

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------
For a secure high performance FTP using SSL/TLS encryption
upgrade to SurgeFTP
---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_surgeftp.htm ----
post #100 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Mark Hickey wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Mark Hickey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Fact is, Saddam was going to be taken down eventually (at least as
>>>soon as he ran out of money to bribe the French with...), and the US
>>>was going to shoulder the majority of the workload, as always. The
>>>end result would have been pretty much identical, with the possible
>>>exception of inept UN leadership and corruption making things worse.

>>
>>:-) Yep, so we let inept US leadership and corruption do that job! By
>>golly, we'll show the world we can be as inept and corrupt as anyone!
>>
>>
>>It astounds me how glibly you and your compatriots have changed the
>>justification for the conquest of Iraq. Ahead of time, you were one of
>>those claiming with absolute certainty that Saddam was aiming his WMDs,
>>and that international disaster was certain if we didn't invade
>>immediately. Now that you were proved wrong, you've not even hinted at
>>an apology. Instead, you've started singing "But Saddam was a bad man,"
>>as if that justifies this fiasco.

>
>
> Oops. You must have hated to hear about that sarin gas bomb going off
> in Iraq today.
>


You sound like Rumsfeld. It was a freakin' shell that had remnants of
sarin. It wasn't a "sarin gas bomb".

Greg
post #101 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Mark Hickey wrote:

> In the end, if the fact that WMD *are* showing up in Iraq disappoints
> you, I feel very, very sorry for you.


"Are"? Shouldn't that be "is", as in, singular? Somehow, I don't think
that unlabeled, unrecognized shell is going to convince the world, Mark.

But actually, there are millions of WMDs in Iraq ... now. We marched in
there carrying them.


--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
post #102 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

>
>You sound like Rumsfeld. It was a freakin' shell that had remnants of
>sarin. It wasn't a "sarin gas bomb".
>
>Greg


See

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3722255.stm

"An artillery shell containing a small amount of the nerve gas sarin has
exploded in Iraq."

"Gen Kimmitt said the dispersal of the nerve agent from a device such as the
homemade bomb was "limited".

"The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf
War," he said.

However, a senior coalition source has told the BBC the round does not signal
the discovery of weapons of mass destruction or the escalation of insurgent
activity."

It's hardly what we here in the UK were told by our "dear leader" could
annihilate us in 45 minutes.

Cheers, helen s





--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

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post #103 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> "Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> wrote;
>
> > Ahead of time, you were one of
> > those claiming with absolute certainty that Saddam was aiming his WMDs,
> > and that international disaster was certain if we didn't invade
> > immediately. Now that you were proved wrong,

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Looks like you might be eating crow. Hear the news today?


Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Matt
23:24

One stale shell left over from the Iran-Iraq conflict does not
constitute a "weapon of mass destruction", even if it is a chemical
weapon. The implication that this is the sort of fearsome armament
that justified overtaking a sovereign country at the cost of tens of
thousands of human lives and over a hundred billion dollars, is beyond
ridiculous; you become a parody of a stooge by suggesting it.

You want to find WMDs over there? The thousands of cluster bombs US
airplanes scattered over civilian villages in Iraq are weapons of mass
destruction. They're doing a bang-up job, so to speak, of killing
children and/or avulsing off their limbs.

Chalo Colina
post #104 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Tim McTeague wrote:
>
>> ...And I don't let the American people off the hook for not really paying
>> attention. Many, if not most, still think Iraq had something to do with
>> 9/11!

>
>
> There is quite likely a connection between Iraq and the terrorist
> attacks of 9-11-01 (or 11-9-01 by the European system). Anger over the
> deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis indirectly caused by
> the US targeting of Iraqi infrastructure (such as water and waste water
> treatment plants) during the 1991 Gulf War followed by the US led
> economic sanctions was likely part of the motivation for the attacks on
> 9-11-01.
>


Tom:

I have to give it to you. That is the most definitive argument I've
EVER SEEN to justify the spending of BILLIONS of dollars and - so far -
HUNDREDS of lives of my fellow citizens. Yep, it sure must be true that
that Saddam was connected - I'm convinced now.

Give me a break. Sheesh!

MOO,
Matt
post #105 of 346

Re: Why they hate us, was (Re: funny things to do on a bike)

Mark Hickey wrote:
> Tom Sherman <tsherman@qconline.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Mark Hickey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The Iraqi insurgents use civilians as shields...

>>
>>The Iraqis attacking the occupying forces are not insurgents, but a
>>legitimate (by international law and convention) resistance opposing a
>>foreign occupation.

>
>
> Whatever. They're really just targets. I heard Kerry refer to Al
> Sadr as a "legitimate voice", then immediately waffle on the
> statement. Those doing the fighting in Iraq are no more
> representative of the vast majority of the Iraqis than the skinheads
> are in the US.
>
> Mark Hickey
> Habanero Cycles
> http://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $695 ti frame


Al Sadr is a legitimate voice in that he has thousands of Iraqi's
listening to him & answering his demands. That doesn't mean his
legitimacy is a good thing. IMO, he's just the next Saddam Hussein.
He's a thug, and we've given him exactly what he wants. He doesn't want
to be a martyr - leave that to the underlings who die for him. Power is
what it's all about.

MOO,
Matt
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