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Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much? - Page 7

post #91 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"Mark Jones" <noemail@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<VxqRc.12760$9Y6.5151@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> "DonQuijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4e4a3f58.0408080607.a3a4012@posting.google.com...
> > "Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net> wrote in message

> news:<RqhRc.264754$Oq2.114235@attbi_s52>...
> > > "An average design cycle is anywhere from 36 months to 60 months (3

> years to
> > > 5 years) for a total labor cost of (assuming 3 years) is

> $17,280,000,000.
> > > Lotsa zeros, ain't it? Let me say that number another way. The labor

> charged
> > > to the program cost for 3 years of a design cycle is $17.28 BILLION

> USD."
> >
> > Maybe the reactor for the shuttle?

> What reactor?


Reactor sounds futuristic...
post #92 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

Bownse <bownse@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<4DqRc.3555$Bf.3497@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> DonQuijote1954 wrote:
> > "The typical American male devotes more than 1,600 hours a year to his
> > car. He sits in it while it goes and while it stands idling. He parks
> > it and searches for it. He earns the money to put down on it and to
> > meet the monthly installments. He works to pay for petrol, tolls,
> > insurance, taxes and tickets."

>
> Cite please.
>
> I don't pay tolls.
>
> I haven't had a ticket in years.
>
> As for sitting in it while it goes, sitting outside of it under those
> conditions would ear hazardous duty pay.
>
> Standing idling isn't something it does much thanks to choosing where I
> work and what I drive for conditions (my motorcycle LOVES to lane share
> when traffic is jammed)
>
> All the rest is choice baby. It's nice to live in a country where the
> people still have the trump cards over the government wrt choice.


Do I have news for you. In Europe you can walk, or ride a bicycle, or
ride a bullet train, or ride a bus, or ride a trolley, or drive more
and better cars than those found in the good ol' of US. Who you think
is ahead on the road to communism?
post #93 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

Bownse <bownse@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<iIqRc.3558$Bf.2847@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> DonQuijote1954 wrote:
>
> > "Mark Jones" <noemail@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<lNhRc.12490$9Y6.2127@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> >
> >>"DonQuijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:4e4a3f58.0408071807.7445fe9@posting.google.com...
> >>
> >>>The Media keeps saying we are "in love" with it, though it seems more
> >>>like we are stuck with it.
> >>>
> >>>We got an expensive and boring lover.
> >>
> >>Get an interesting car instead of an econo box and it can be
> >>a lot of fun.
> >>
> >>http://home.mindspring.com/~mejones/Corvette.jpg

> >
> >
> > I get a lot of fun in my econobox, and don't get in trouble with the
> > stupid American speed limits.

>
> I see you're unfamiliar with the western "outback" of NV, UT, ID, and
> eastern OR and WA. Shame to base you bias on such a limited exposure.


Even in a Porsche it would take me a couple of days to get there.
post #94 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"Mark Jones" <noemail@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<fMqRc.12796$9Y6.3566@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> "DonQuijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4e4a3f58.0408080616.7c7eba38@posting.google.com...
> > I get a lot of fun in my econobox, and don't get in trouble with the
> > stupid American speed limits. A large car and sports car is an
> > oxymoron only found in the good old US of A.

>
> You are not too bright if you think that only the U.S. has
> large cars and sports cars. You need to get out a little more.


I said large AND sport are an oxymoron. Porsche, small, GT pocket
rockets--a class almost unheard of in America--even smaller. Corvette
and Camaros are for looks.
post #95 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote in message news:<KRqRc.367$aB1.191@twister.socal.rr.com>...
> DonQuijote1954 wrote:
> > "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote

>
> >> What *we* really need is for people like you to stop imagining you
> >> know what's best for everyone else.

> >
> > I hope you realize that once lived a race of dirty, filthy, stupid
> > dinosaurs too...

>
> So you're claiming credit for that, too?!?
>
> Bill "tilt on" S.


What do you mean credit for that? I got it copyright.
post #96 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"Pete" <ptr@usaf.com> wrote in message news:<PYuRc.131668$fv.55286@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...
> "DonQuijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >
> > It hasn't been invented in America, but it's already working in places
> > like Holland and Germany.

>
> [why do i bother?]
> You ever been to Holland, DQ?


No, but I've seen it in pictures.
>
> Go there, study the environment. Investigate the economic, geographic, and
> societal differences between Holland and the US.


If I were an expert in the field, like those bicycle coordinators we
got in the county, I'd like go there and check it out. Maybe, who
knows, we can learn a lesson or two.

So far, of course, we know better as to worry to go there.

>
> Study it in depth. Objectively. Not with the "Holland is great!" stars in
> your eyes. Go there for a couple of years.
>
> Then come back here and tell us how the system in Holland could (or more
> likely could not) be transplanted here.


OK, the Dutch system is no good, we should then learn from who?
>
> Pete
> Because the bicycle is a much larger segment of transportation in China than
> in the US, does that mean we should try to emulate their economic and
> transportation model as well?


OK you don't want to learn from Holland, China or any other country.
That would be un American... How about learning from a little place
right here in America where the bicycle and the electric vehicle and
the SUVs coexist? Well, have you been to Key West?
post #97 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"Mark Jones" <noemail@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<BRvRc.13498$9Y6.6529@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> "Lance Lamboy" <lance.lamboy@lamboy.nospam.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2004.08.08.19.32.53.502566@lamboy.nospam.com...
> > On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:14:55 +0000, Pete wrote:
> > > Because the bicycle is a much larger segment of transportation in China
> > > than in the US, does that mean we should try to emulate their economic
> > > and transportation model as well?

> >
> > Yes. They are engaged in economic growth while the US is engaged in
> > economic decline.

>
> Not true. The gross domestic product of the United States
> grew by an estimated rate of 3.1% in 2003. Not too bad
> when much of the world economy is kind of stagnant.
>
> The estimated growth rate for China is a remarkable 9.1%.
>
> A big difference is that the U.S. GDP per capita is $37,800
> while it is only $5,000 for China. China will need spectacular
> growth rates in GDP to close a gap this huge.


Of course they are more advanced on the road to communism. I'm sure
one day we'll be there.
post #98 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) wrote in message news:<M8Gdnd4da-yMO4vcRVn-sg@speakeasy.net>...
> In article <dzdRc.23185$wM.16497@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
> gooserider <gooserider@mousepotato.com> wrote:
> >
> >Well, some cars are cool, but our society is designed around the car. I live
> >in a relatively small town, and I ride my bike for a lot of errands, but the
> >traffic is scary.

>
> Deal with your fear.


There's going to be, how many, 72 virgins waiting for you up there.
post #99 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote in message news:<iNxRc.113488$eM2.95676@attbi_s51>...
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0408072015160.29461@alumni.engin.umich.edu>, Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> > ****ty or nonexistent transit systems suck. Pathetic or nonexistent
> > pedestrian provisions blow. Substandard or nonexistent bicycle provisions
> > stink.

>
> > And that is why all the money that gets poured into programs aimed at
> > "getting people out of their cars" by penalizing drivers (lane
> > restrictions, etc.) are completely bassackwards. Offer me a *real*,
> > *viable*, *good* alternative, and I'll happily get out of my car.

>
> But the problem is that transit advocates are often anti-car rather
> than pro-transit. Which is why so many measures to get people of their
> cars are designed to make driving less effective and more painful rather
> than making transit better. Make transit better and I'll use it. Make
> it so it doesn't take 3-4times longer than driving but just the same would
> be a start.


OK, I'm for pro-transit. The more options the better.
post #100 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) wrote in message news:<os2dneUkOr2ZMYvcRVn-pA@speakeasy.net>...
> In article <4e4a3f58.0408072313.7fc7cf47@posting.google.com>,
> DonQuijote1954 <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message news:<2nle4fF227kjU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> >> >
> >> > And that is why all the money that gets poured into programs aimed at
> >> > "getting people out of their cars" by penalizing drivers (lane
> >> > restrictions, etc.) are completely bassackwards. Offer me a *real*,
> >> > *viable*, *good* alternative, and I'll happily get out of my car.
> >>
> >> All the money in the world isn't going to buy you a solution that hasn't
> >> been invented (or even imagined) yet. -Dave

> >
> >It hasn't been invented in America, but it's already working in places
> >like Holland and Germany.

>
> Germany? Home of Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Audi/Volkswagen, and BMW?
> Home of the Autobahn? Yeah, they're really getting drivers out of
> their cars. Sure, they have S-bahns and U-bahns and Deutsche Bahn,
> but there's still no shortage of drivers and driving. And even in
> Germany, the roads take you many places the trains just don't go.


Sure, meaning they got cars--good ones--and bicycles and trains and...

It sounds good to me, no?
post #101 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

p4t6 <p4t6@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<opscfrg2delbsr5r@news.west.cox.net>...
> One can only hope president Kerry will take a strong "carrot and stick"
> attitude to get americans out of their cars and on to transit &
> cycling/walking. Good for the individual (eg, health benifits of
> walking), good for the country & world. Maybe its time to limit auto
> ownership to one vehicle per two or three people. Progressive tax policy
> could go a long way in this respect. But the real key is to educate the
> next generation on the destructivness of the auto.


He wouldn't dare. Perhaps Gore felt strongly about it, but it's too late.

The war in Iraq will go on...
post #102 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

> > Holland and Denmark are very small, comparatively very flat countries.
> > Most of the places where people want to be are close to one another, and
> > the cities are modernisations of places originally intended to be walked.

>
> Sweden have almost exactly the same population density as USA and people
> still use cars a lot less.
>
> > The US is a very large country with vast distances (and, depending
> > on locale, inhospitable terrain and/or climate) between places where
> > people want to be. Most of the cities weren't ever designed for
> > walkability.

>
> If you look at total distances travelled most will be in densely populated
> areas like in California. Each person may travel longer in sparsely
> populated areas in the Midwest, but they are a lot fewer. That most US
> cities aren't designed for anything but using cars is an unfortunate fact,
> but really no excuse.


Exactly, the sprawl makes it all necessary, and more sprawl is added
everyday, so expect more of the same for years to come. Also expect
more pollution and more wars that go with it.
post #103 of 219
Thread Starter 

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

> > Holland and Denmark are very small, comparatively very flat countries.
> > Most of the places where people want to be are close to one another, and
> > the cities are modernisations of places originally intended to be walked.

>
> Sweden have almost exactly the same population density as USA and people
> still use cars a lot less.
>
> > The US is a very large country with vast distances (and, depending
> > on locale, inhospitable terrain and/or climate) between places where
> > people want to be. Most of the cities weren't ever designed for
> > walkability.

>
> If you look at total distances travelled most will be in densely populated
> areas like in California. Each person may travel longer in sparsely
> populated areas in the Midwest, but they are a lot fewer. That most US
> cities aren't designed for anything but using cars is an unfortunate fact,
> but really no excuse.


Exactly, the sprawl makes it all necessary, and more sprawl is added
everyday, so expect more of the same for years to come. Also expect
more pollution and more wars that go with it.
post #104 of 219

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net> wrote:

> The car puts out CO2 even if it were to put out zero pollution.


But it doesn't put out zero pollution; it pumps out plenty of carbon
monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, and micron-sized
particles. Run your car in a closed garage and it's not CO2 that will
kill you. Live out your days in a traffic-plagued city and it's not
CO2 that will give you cancer.

The fact that nothing can ameliorate the CO2, and that CO2 is the
effluvium that's changing the climate, is another matter.

It won't wash. The cars are robbing us of our individual health as
well as our collective quality of life. "Cleaner cars" are like
duller knives; they take longer to kill you but inflict every bit as
much misery as the other kind.

Chalo Colina
post #105 of 219

Re: Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

"Pete" <ptr@usaf.com> wrote in message
news:3BxRc.8785$Nl1.749@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "gooserider" <gooserider@mousepotato.com> wrote
>
> >
> > Well, some cars are cool, but our society is designed around the car. I

> live
> > in a relatively small town, and I ride my bike for a lot of errands, but

> the
> > traffic is scary. Florida is not really bike friendly, except for
> > Gainesville. I couldn't see doing a week's grocery shopping with my

bike,
> > though.

>
> How does doing a week's worth of shopping (once a week obviously),
> invalidate use of a bike for other errands?
> Is a car required to go to the library? Or take a movie back to

Blockbuster?
> Or carry you and only you back and forth to work?
>
> Maybe, if you choose to live in such an area. Others have made different
> choices.
>
> Pete


Err, maybe you didn't read the part where I said I USE MY BIKE FOR A LOT OF
ERRANDS?
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