Bike Friday for a touring bike?

My riding buddies and I ride just this assortment of bikes. In March we did 1200 miles from
Charleston, SC to New Smyrna Beach and back.

The Bike Friday towed its hard-case in the trailer configuration. I rode my Longbikes' Vanguard
(Ryan design, LWB USS) and towed a BOB. The BG BLT used traditional panniers.

We tented every night save one in a motel.

We were a female and two males ranging in age from 64 to 54 and, in stature, from 5'2"/110# to
6'2"/220#.

We'll soon begin serious planning for our coast to coast next year. I expect that we'll ride with an
informal group or with an ACA tour.

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I wanna do a honest to goodness bike tour someday soon.... next year or so.
>
> Ive always ridden bikes.... for fun and back forth to work..... but have dreamed of doing a bike
> tour someday.
>
> Im not sure I do a fully loaded tour just yet. Id probably start out with just doing a credit card
> tour for a day or two in my local area.
>
> And just for the record..... Im 45.... abt 200lbs.... and out of shape.
>
> Having said al the above.... what is a good bike to be buying to get ready for this touring?
>
> My thoughts are either a Bike Friday model.... or a Bruce Gordon BLT. Or maybe even a recumbent?
>
> More questions later but I will stop and wait for responses.
>
> Thanks in advance!!

[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
> Having said al the above.... what is a good bike to be buying to get ready for this touring?
>
> My thoughts are either a Bike Friday model.... or a Bruce Gordon BLT. Or maybe even a recumbent?
>
> More questions later but I will stop and wait for responses.
>

I bought a Bike Friday and was disappointed with it. It was poorly designed and I spent a lot of
time shipping it back to Eugene to have things fixed. But that was 5 years ago, so perhaps they've
improved since then.

Personally, unless you really needed the folding capability, the Friday would not make a good
touring bike. It has a lot of non-standard parts (like the small wheels) that would be nearly
impossible to replace in the field, without carrying a lot of spare parts with you. Sure, you can
carry lots of spare tubes and tires...but what if you ding a rim?

I also found the 16" inner tubes they sold me could not handle much weight. They would split open
whenever I rode with too much gear on the rear rack.

Hmmm....the BF that I've seen recently use 20" wheels just like many BMX and especially my
20"/26" 'bent.

That is one relatively standard part that you've listed as non-standard. My riding partner's BF uses
Campagnolo in the drive drain. The headset is Chirs King. Wheels are Sun. Saddle is customer
supplied. I found the design and construction standards to be of the highest quality and certainly
they're well compensated.

By your reference to 16" wheels I suspect you're mis-remembering a Dahon

"bikerider7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> >
> > Having said al the above.... what is a good bike to be buying to get ready for this touring?
> >
> > My thoughts are either a Bike Friday model.... or a Bruce Gordon BLT. Or maybe even a recumbent?
> >
> > More questions later but I will stop and wait for responses.
> >
>
> I bought a Bike Friday and was disappointed with it. It was poorly designed and I spent a lot of
> time shipping it back to Eugene to have things fixed. But that was 5 years ago, so perhaps they've
> improved since then.
>
> Personally, unless you really needed the folding capability, the Friday would not make a good
> touring bike. It has a lot of non-standard parts (like the small wheels) that would be nearly
> impossible to replace in the field, without carrying a lot of spare parts with you. Sure, you can
> carry lots of spare tubes and tires...but what if you ding a rim?
>
> I also found the 16" inner tubes they sold me could not handle much weight. They would split open
> whenever I rode with too much gear on the rear rack.

bikerider7 wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>Having said al the above.... what is a good bike to be buying to get ready for this touring?
>>
>>My thoughts are either a Bike Friday model.... or a Bruce Gordon BLT. Or maybe even a recumbent?
>>
>>More questions later but I will stop and wait for responses.
>
> I bought a Bike Friday and was disappointed with it. It was poorly designed and I spent a lot of
> time shipping it back to Eugene to have things fixed. But that was 5 years ago, so perhaps they've
> improved since then.
>
> Personally, unless you really needed the folding capability, the Friday would not make a good
> touring bike. It has a lot of non-standard parts (like the small wheels) that would be nearly
> impossible to replace in the field, without carrying a lot of spare parts with you.

I've used my Bike Friday (now almost 10 years old) on a number of self-supported camping tours
without any problems. All the components are standard Shimano (mine doesn't have the optional 3x7
Sachs/SRAM hub, but from what I've seen those are pretty durable devices) and the wheels are 20" -
very widely available. (I notice you mentioned 16" tubes - do you have their recumbent model? That
would have been pretty new 5 years ago and I do recall hearing about some initial problems.) Green
Gear also provides a 24-hour/7-day customer assistance phone number for touring cyclists with an
emergency repair situation. Parts can be FedEx'd (or equivalent) quickly almost anywhere in the
world these days.

> Sure, you can carry lots of spare tubes and tires...but what if you ding a rim?

Then I'd get a new one - 20" rims for BMX-style bikes are probably more available in most towns than
700c. Might not be the highest quality finish, etc. but it would get me to the next city with a
better selection if needed. BTW, Bike Friday upright bikes are available for either the 406 or 451
rim sizes (both referred to as 20"). The 406 size is the same as used on BMX bikes and would be
preferable for availability when touring.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

> My thoughts are either a Bike Friday model.... or a Bruce Gordon BLT. Or maybe even a recumbent?

Unless you really want to be able to fold the bike up for flying, go with the BLT. It's the best
deal in touring bikes. Also check out the Rivendell Romulus.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:39:55 -0500, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> My thoughts are either a Bike Friday model.... or a Bruce Gordon BLT. Or maybe even a recumbent?
>
>Unless you really want to be able to fold the bike up for flying, go with the BLT. It's the best
>deal in touring bikes. Also check out the Rivendell Romulus.

I just returned (late last evening) from a cycling trip in New England, thus the tardiness of this
response. In our party of sixteen, three were on Bike Fridays. Other than the "fold 'em into a
suitcase" feature I saw NO advantage to them. Even worse, one of the bikes' wheels was slightly
damaged in shipment causing a series of flats. The party quickly ran out of 20" tubes and had to
resort to patches to keep going. This is okay for some (like me), but the guy who kept flatting
didn't share my faith in patches, thus he and his wife skipped our day on Martha's Vineyard.

My girlfriend rode her Trek 520 (touring bike) and I rode my Fuji Touring Series. These were fine
choices except for some of the rough roads around Watch Hill, RI. There we sort of wished we'd
brought our mountain bikes.

One of our group was on a brand new CoMotion equipped with S&S Couplers. Seems to me if you want a
"packable" bike that's a reasonable choice for touring this would be a good way to go.

BTW, thanks to the Narragansett Bay Wheelmen for inviting us (Naperville Bicycle Club, Illinois) to
join their club ride out of Tiverton, RI. It was the best ride of the trip.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

>I just returned (late last evening) from a cycling trip in New England, thus the tardiness of this
>response. In our party of sixteen, three were on Bike Fridays. Other than the "fold 'em into a
>suitcase" feature I saw NO advantage to them.

So.... are you saying that if you do NOT need the folding ability at all ..... to absolutely NOT buy
a folder as a touring bike?

Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> bikerider7 wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
> I've used my Bike Friday (now almost 10 years old) on a number of self-supported camping tours
> without any problems. All the components are standard Shimano (mine doesn't have the optional 3x7
> Sachs/SRAM hub, but from what I've seen those are pretty durable devices) and the wheels are 20" -
> very widely available. (I notice you mentioned 16" tubes - do you have their recumbent model?

My mistake, I misremembered as 16" when in fact it is their usual 20". However, I do not agree that
20" is so widely available (at least in the places that I normally go bike touring), but we'll just
have to agree to disagree on that one.

As for the drive-train being "standard" my largest chainring is (again, if I recall correctly)
60-tooth. That is not what I consider standard. And yes, it is something that can break -- Southwest
bent my chainring the last time I flew with the bike.

> Parts can be FedEx'd (or equivalent) quickly almost anywhere in the world these days.

To each their own. I'd rather not put up with that kind of hassle when all I need is a
tube or spoke.

bikerider7 wrote:
> Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>bikerider7 wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>I've used my Bike Friday (now almost 10 years old) on a number of self-supported camping tours
>>without any problems. All the components are standard Shimano (mine doesn't have the optional 3x7
>>Sachs/SRAM hub, but from what I've seen those are pretty durable devices) and the wheels are 20" -
>>very widely available. (I notice you mentioned 16" tubes - do you have their recumbent model?
>
>
> My mistake, I misremembered as 16" when in fact it is their usual 20". However, I do not agree
> that 20" is so widely available (at least in the places that I normally go bike touring), but
> we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
>
> As for the drive-train being "standard" my largest chainring is (again, if I recall correctly)
> 60-tooth. That is not what I consider standard. And yes, it is something that can break --
> Southwest bent my chainring the last time I flew with the bike.

Not a very common occurrence though - and what would be the possible downside? You might be limited
in your top few gears for a day or two using a 52 instead of your usual 60. Doesn't strike me as
something that's going to make a big difference in any of my touring.

>>Parts can be FedEx'd (or equivalent) quickly almost anywhere in the world these days.
>
>
> To each their own. I'd rather not put up with that kind of hassle when all I need is a tube
> or spoke.

Those I pick up in any local bike shop - I find that there are far more of those that cater to kid's
bikes/BMX and MTBs than to road bikes. [Tubes are not an issue anyway - almost any size can be made
to work if you're careful with the installation. That includes 700c tubes in MTB or 20" tires and
20" tubes in 700c - it's not optimum but serviceable until you can get something better.]

But if there's a serious problem I can call Green Gear at any time (24/7) and they'll discuss how to
get me rolling again as quickly as possible including FedEx shipment of needed parts like a rear
triangle. The other bike I use for touring is my Cannondale and I think I'd have a lot more trouble
getting hold of someone there on Thanksgiving day to talk about a quick frame replacement.

Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<YkEQa.53609$GL4.13943@rwcrnsc53>...
> bikerider7 wrote:
> >
> > As for the drive-train being "standard" my largest chainring is (again, if I recall correctly)
> > 60-tooth. That is not what I consider standard. And yes, it is something that can break --
> > Southwest bent my chainring the last time I flew with the bike.
>
> Not a very common occurrence though

Well, my experience is that eventually, anything that can go wrong on tour will (especially where
baggage handlers are involved).

> You might be limited in your top few gears for a day or two using a 52 instead of your usual 60.
> Doesn't strike me as something that's going to make a big difference in any of my touring.

The 60 was bent so far that the 52 didn't have enough clearance either. I dunno, can an outer
chainring be removed and the rest of the chainrings still be held together without a spacer? Since
it happened on my trip back, I didn't really have to try that experiment...

>
> But if there's a serious problem I can call Green Gear at any time (24/7) and they'll discuss how
> to get me rolling again as quickly as possible including FedEx shipment of needed parts like a
> rear triangle. The other bike I use for touring is my Cannondale and I think I'd have a lot more
> trouble getting hold of someone there on Thanksgiving day to talk about a quick frame replacement.

Cannondale frames are very bulletproof. I used an R500 for years of hard-core touring. I really
don't know what the BF policy is on broken frames but I'm not sure that's something they would be
able to Fed-Ex in 24 hrs (I can, however, buy a new Cannondale frame at lots of retail stores around
the world). BF frames also had a notorious history for breaking (though perhaps they've improved
things in recent years). As well, BF frames are heavy, and that quick-release joint at the bottom
bracket makes them flexy. But if people like BF's (and I know a lot of people that
do), more power to them....my own experience (as you can tell) was rather negative.

bikerider7 wrote:
> Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<YkEQa.53609$GL4.13943@rwcrnsc53>...
>
>>bikerider7 wrote:
>>
>>>As for the drive-train being "standard" my largest chainring is (again, if I recall correctly)
>>>60-tooth. That is not what I consider standard. And yes, it is something that can break --
>>>Southwest bent my chainring the last time I flew with the bike.
>>
>>Not a very common occurrence though
>
>
> Well, my experience is that eventually, anything that can go wrong on tour will (especially where
> baggage handlers are involved).
>
>
>>You might be limited in your top few gears for a day or two using a 52 instead of your usual 60.
>>Doesn't strike me as something that's going to make a big difference in any of my touring.
>
>
> The 60 was bent so far that the 52 didn't have enough clearance either. I dunno, can an outer
> chainring be removed and the rest of the chainrings still be held together without a spacer? Since
> it happened on my trip back, I didn't really have to try that experiment...

I don't understand your point here. I thought you were arguing that the BF owner would have a much
more serious problem due to a bent chainring if he has a 60-tooth ring that's hard to find while
someone with a regular bike would walk into an LBS and get a 52. I was just pointing out that
switching the BF to a big ring of 52 for the day or two it might take to get a 60 shipped is not
that big a deal for a typical bike tourist - the bike is still rideable but you'd be coasting on
more of the downhills. The unconventional nature of a BF is not really a problem from the standpoint
of finding replacement parts since almost all the components (incl. the crankset) are very
conventional. And they further back you up with responsive customer support that goes beyond other
bike companies with which I've dealt.
>
>>But if there's a serious problem I can call Green Gear at any time (24/7) and they'll discuss how
>>to get me rolling again as quickly as possible including FedEx shipment of needed parts like a
>>rear triangle. The other bike I use for touring is my Cannondale and I think I'd have a lot more
>>trouble getting hold of someone there on Thanksgiving day to talk about a quick frame replacement.
>
>
> Cannondale frames are very bulletproof.

Only if you're using very slow bullets. There's no such thing as a bulletproof bikeframe and if you
tried to make one it would weigh too much to be useful.

> I used an R500 for years of hard-core touring.

So - I haven't had any problems either with my 14-year old R800, but I don't kid myself that it's
somehow immune from being trashed by even a rather minor impact.

> I really don't know what the BF policy is on broken frames but I'm not sure that's something they
> would be able to Fed-Ex in 24 hrs (I can, however, buy a new Cannondale frame at lots of retail
> stores around the world).

Try it on Thanksgiving day in some arbitrary small town in the US. I doubt if you'll even get
through to their customer service department until the following Monday. And most small towns don't
have bike shops, but they do get FedEx shipments.

> As well, BF frames are heavy, and that quick-release joint at the bottom bracket makes them flexy.
> But if people like BF's (and I know a lot of people that
> do), more power to them....my own experience (as you can tell) was rather negative.

I can certainly understand that some people wouldn't choose BFs. But the reason you cited of
difficulty finding parts while touring doesn't strike me as a valid one. I would recommend that
tourers choose the 406 wheel size rather than 451 (both are labelled 20", but the 406 size is the
common one for BMX bikes).

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:28:06 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>>I just returned (late last evening) from a cycling trip in New England, thus the tardiness of this
>>response. In our party of sixteen, three were on Bike Fridays. Other than the "fold 'em into a
>>suitcase" feature I saw NO advantage to them.
>
>So.... are you saying that if you do NOT need the folding ability at all ..... to absolutely NOT
>buy a folder as a touring bike?

I'm saying that if you don't need folding ability don't buy a folding bike of any kind! Why put up
with a needless "feature" that can potentially add yet another point of failure?

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> bikerider7 wrote:
>
> > Cannondale frames are very bulletproof.
>
> Only if you're using very slow bullets. There's no such thing as a bulletproof bikeframe and if
> you tried to make one it would weigh too much to be useful.

Of course. But as far as frames go, my experience has been that the touring Cannondale frames can
take a lot of abuse and that I'd be much more worried about the BF frame breaking.

>
> > I really don't know what the BF policy is on broken frames but I'm not sure that's something
> > they would be able to Fed-Ex in 24 hrs (I can, however, buy a new Cannondale frame at lots of
> > retail stores around the world).
>
> Try it on Thanksgiving day in some arbitrary small town in the US. I doubt if you'll even get
> through to their customer service department until the following Monday. And most small towns
> don't have bike shops, but they do get FedEx shipments.

Are you suggesting that BF would build a new frame over Thanksgiving break? They do have good
customer service -- I'll give them that -- but it took 6 weeks for them to build my P.R. frame (and
BTW, the frame they built me didn't come close to the measurements I had sent them...but their lack
of quality control is another topic entirely).

And as for Fed-Ex'ing parts, one can always order stuff from Bike-Nashbar, Colorado Cyclist, etc.

bikerider7 wrote:

> Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>bikerider7 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Cannondale frames are very bulletproof.
>>
>>Only if you're using very slow bullets. There's no such thing as a bulletproof bikeframe and if
>>you tried to make one it would weigh too much to be useful.
>
>
> Of course. But as far as frames go, my experience has been that the touring Cannondale frames can
> take a lot of abuse and that I'd be much more worried about the BF frame breaking.
>
>
>>>I really don't know what the BF policy is on broken frames but I'm not sure that's something they
>>>would be able to Fed-Ex in 24 hrs (I can, however, buy a new Cannondale frame at lots of retail
>>>stores around the world).
>>
>>Try it on Thanksgiving day in some arbitrary small town in the US. I doubt if you'll even get
>>through to their customer service department until the following Monday. And most small towns
>>don't have bike shops, but they do get FedEx shipments.
>
>
> Are you suggesting that BF would build a new frame over Thanksgiving break?

I'm not sure, but I did call them years ago on Thanksgiving day because of a problem with my rear
triangle. I was expecting to leave a message on an answering machine and was surprised when I got a
live response. He asked if I was in a hurry and I replied that there wasn't any rush at all - I was
at home and had other bikes available. I still got a new rear triangle in less than a week. I
presume it would have been even faster if I had indicated I was stuck in some small town in the
middle of a bike tour.

> They do have good customer service -- I'll give them that ...

> And as for Fed-Ex'ing parts, one can always order stuff from Bike-Nashbar, Colorado Cyclist, etc.

And which of those have a 24/7 phone number with a service rep on call to discuss technical issues
and repair/replacement options to get you back on the road as quickly as possible?

Peter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<fPYQa.58882$OZ2.10305@rwcrnsc54>...
> bikerider7 wrote:
> >
> > Are you suggesting that BF would build a new frame over Thanksgiving break?
>
> I'm not sure, but I did call them years ago on Thanksgiving day because of a problem with my rear
> triangle. I was expecting to leave a message on an answering machine and was surprised when I got
> a live response. He asked if I was in a hurry and I replied that there wasn't any rush at all - I
> was at home and had other bikes available. I still got a new rear triangle in less than a week. I
> presume it would have been even faster if I had indicated I was stuck in some small town in the
> middle of a bike tour.

Interesting...your BF developed a problem in the rear triangle and that didn't concern you? Granted,
I don't know the details of your particular situation but I know quite a lot of BF owners that had
frame problems which to me is a really bad sign.

>
> > They do have good customer service -- I'll give them that ...
>
> > And as for Fed-Ex'ing parts, one can always order stuff from Bike-Nashbar, Colorado
> > Cyclist, etc.
>
> And which of those have a 24/7 phone number with a service rep on call to discuss technical issues
> and repair/replacement options to get you back on the road as quickly as possible?

No idea...I have only dealt with LBS's and since I always try to buy the most reliable, non-exotic
stuff on the market, I have never had to make an emergency long distance call to a service rep (my
BF being the exception of course).

> I just returned (late last evening) from a cycling trip in New England, thus the tardiness of this
> response. In our party of sixteen, three were on Bike Fridays. Other than the "fold 'em into a
> suitcase" feature I saw NO advantage to them. Even worse, one of the bikes' wheels was slightly
> damaged in shipment causing a series of flats. The party quickly ran out of 20" tubes and had to
> resort to patches to keep going. This is okay for some (like me), but the guy who kept flatting
> didn't share my faith in patches, thus he and his wife skipped our day on Martha's Vineyard.
>

I think before we solely lay blame on a particular "bike" make and model, we should investigate as
to why the wheel causes a series of flats. There could be many possibilities and tire blow outs is
NOT ONLY limited to 20" tubes. 26 and 700c tubes do blow on regular bikes as well due to as well
many reasons. Just because it happens on a Bike Friday does not mean that it is only a Bike
Friday's problem.

The advantage of the Bike Friday is not always apparent, but being an owner of one and also an owner
of a full sized touring bike, I can immediately appreciate the benefit of having one. One of the
benefits is portability, which means you can pack the Friday into a softbag, pad it with your
clothes in plastic bags and then pass it along as regular luggage. I have travelled to many places
just with this setup, bike in a softbag which can be folded into 1 single bag the size of a handle
bar bag and a duffle bag to store my 4 panniers. I never once got the bike damaged, except maybe the
rear derailleur and that was my own mistake. The advantage is apparent and it gives you the freedom
to take a Greyhound from any point in the country or a small commuter plane from any small city. If
it was a full sized bike however, I may not want to bus or plane hop all the time. Other than that,
the bike rides the same as it should like my full sized touring bike and is just as reliable. What
is not reliable is when one person's frustration with the bike manifest itself on to the net because
it provides anonymity without recourse or a third party professional evaluation on the problem.

> My mistake, I misremembered as 16" when in fact it is their usual 20". However, I do not agree
> that 20" is so widely available (at least in the places that I normally go bike touring), but
> we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Are you telling me that people who tour on their bents (recumbents) are going to be out of luck when
it comes to replacing their tires on the road?? Some bents use the same 406 tires that the Bike
Friday bikes use too and that is where I got my replacement tires and tubes from. I have seen MANY
PEOPLE tour on their bents for more than 1 year at a time and they don't seem to have any problems
whatsoever finding replacement tires and tubes.

>
> As for the drive-train being "standard" my largest chainring is (again, if I recall correctly)
> 60-tooth. That is not what I consider standard. And yes, it is something that can break --
> Southwest bent my chainring the last time I flew with the bike.
>

They bent your chain ring and yet your front derailleur survived? Most recent Bike Fridays have a
chain ring guard (a metal piece) that surrounds the chain ring, preventing the chain to bounce out
during shifting and also probably provides some measure of protection from damage in airline luggage
handling. If a regular bike gets damaged by the airlines with both derailleurs bent as well as the
chain ring, you have no choice but to push your bike. With the Bike Friday and a Sachs 3x7 or a 3x9
hub, even if the rear derailleur got snapped off, all I have to do is shorten the chain to make it a
single speed bike with a 7 or 9 speed internal hub still intact. You can at least tour with it until
you find a bike shop that can sell me a rear derailleur and new chain!

[email protected] (bikerider7) wrote:

> However, I do not agree that 20" is so widely available (at least in the places that I normally go
> bike touring), but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

You can get ISO 406 (20" BMX) tires in many grocery stores and all Walmarts. They are as broadly
available as ISO 559 (26" MTB) if not more so, and way more available than ISO 622 (700c).

The ride qualities of the 20" wheel size don't suggest touring to me, but there's no disputing that
the tires and tubes are available everywhere.

Chalo Colina

"David" <[email protected]> wrote:

> They bent your chain ring and yet your front derailleur survived?

Easy to imagine. The lower part of the chainring is relatively exposed, and not close to the front
derailleur.

> With the Bike Friday and a Sachs 3x7 or a 3x9 hub, even if the rear derailleur got snapped off,
> all I have to do is shorten the chain to make it a single speed bike with a 7 or 9 speed internal
> hub still intact.

The epicyclic part of the hub is a three-speed. The cassette body takes seven or (eight or) nine
sprockets.

James Thomson