'Polish Atkins diet'



M

MrPepper11

Guest
Praise the lard
The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of animal
fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune

Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
whipping cream.

That's at 8 a.m.

"At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind
of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains.
Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more
butter or lard.

Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with
lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.

In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with
a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."

Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
hungry."

She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with an
estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.

The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for
a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors
.. . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the
ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.

After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.

It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed me
this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few weeks
later, Peschak started the diet.

It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago would
become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a
restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
manager.

Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts
the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
reach for his heart.

250 grams of fat per day

On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat
allowed.

So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to have
lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the mainstream
medical establishment there and here is skeptical.

"I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing
internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because
it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will give
you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good
for you."

Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.

"Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is
pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are
fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."

On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park,
about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
meeting and shared their stories.

There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of Niles,
who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at
the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.

"Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up
six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old.
I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never
am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."

Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
variation of the diet his whole life.

"Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat
and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."

Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.

No more problems

"I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs,
bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but
after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my weight
has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal
for my height."

Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
results."

Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim
weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.

Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
could be totally cured.

"Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.

"For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
cured."

Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.

"I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can
apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
hypoglycemic."

"But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go
on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
low-carb diets."

No position from the AMA

In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a
position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.

Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it
outright.

"I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and
seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
nutritionist.

"But for the general public I see where there could be potential
problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.

"But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially
if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
eating these foods. It's old country eating."

Mmmmm ... headcheese

Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
homodiet.netfirms.com

BREAKFAST

Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
One soft-boiled egg
Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
Tea with lemon (no sugar)

LUNCH

Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
Tea with lemon (no sugar)

DINNER

Broth with two egg yolks
Hash browns
One strip of bacon

DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories

*This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made headcheese,
which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.

Larding it on

Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of Calma
Optimal Foods:

Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.

Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.

Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice creams;
poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.

Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish eggs,
Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of house-rendered
lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.

In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a butter
crust.
 
X-No-Archive: Yes

There's a sizable Polish population in my city.

Zee









; )
 
Yikes! This would scare the bejesus out Dean Ornish and company! I can
just imagine Nathan Pritikin turning in his grave as we speak. :eek:.


On 28 Mar 2005 16:11:03 -0800, "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Praise the lard
>The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of animal
>fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
>By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune
>
>Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
>whipping cream.
>
>That's at 8 a.m.
>
>"At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind
>of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains.
>Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
>boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more
>butter or lard.
>
>Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with
>lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.
>
>In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with
>a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."
>
>Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
>slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
>hungry."
>
>She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with an
>estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
>is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
>consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.
>
>The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
>Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for
>a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
>many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors
>. . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
>according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
>experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the
>ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
>one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.
>
>After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
>published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
>converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
>from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
>native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
>there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
>Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
>newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.
>
>It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
>1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
>factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed me
>this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few weeks
>later, Peschak started the diet.
>
>It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago would
>become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
>Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
>opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
>nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a
>restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
>manager.
>
>Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts
>the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
>de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
>the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
>reach for his heart.
>
>250 grams of fat per day
>
>On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
>about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
>maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat
>allowed.
>
>So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to have
>lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the mainstream
>medical establishment there and here is skeptical.
>
>"I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing
>internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
>University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
>there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because
>it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will give
>you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good
>for you."
>
>Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
>Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
>increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.
>
>"Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
>and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is
>pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are
>fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."
>
>On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park,
>about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
>meeting and shared their stories.
>
>There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of Niles,
>who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at
>the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
>chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.
>
>"Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up
>six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old.
>I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never
>am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
>feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."
>
>Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
>variation of the diet his whole life.
>
>"Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat
>and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
>interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
>generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
>good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
>piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
>regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
>went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."
>
>Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
>phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
>suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
>of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.
>
>No more problems
>
>"I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
>but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
>stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
>energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs,
>bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
>weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but
>after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my weight
>has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal
>for my height."
>
>Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
>does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
>standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
>diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
>patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
>results."
>
>Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim
>weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.
>
>Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
>diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
>could be totally cured.
>
>"Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
>hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
>had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
>check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.
>
>"For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
>the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
>feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
>friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
>after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
>cured."
>
>Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.
>
>"I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
>diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can
>apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
>intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
>the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
>time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
>hypoglycemic."
>
>"But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
>Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go
>on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
>more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
>low-carb diets."
>
>No position from the AMA
>
>In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
>medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a
>position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
>for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.
>
>Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it
>outright.
>
>"I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
>the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and
>seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
>nutritionist.
>
>"But for the general public I see where there could be potential
>problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
>heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
>certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.
>
>"But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially
>if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
>psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
>healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
>eating these foods. It's old country eating."
>
>Mmmmm ... headcheese
>
>Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
>homodiet.netfirms.com
>
>BREAKFAST
>
>Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
>One soft-boiled egg
>Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
>Tea with lemon (no sugar)
>
>LUNCH
>
>Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
>Tea with lemon (no sugar)
>
>DINNER
>
>Broth with two egg yolks
>Hash browns
>One strip of bacon
>
>DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories
>
>*This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made headcheese,
>which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
>pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
>kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.
>
>Larding it on
>
>Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of Calma
>Optimal Foods:
>
>Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
>borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.
>
>Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
>headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.
>
>Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice creams;
>poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.
>
>Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish eggs,
>Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of house-rendered
>lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.
>
>In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
>pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a butter
>crust.
 
Thanks for the post. These are the macro-nutrient levels my yahoo group
believes in.

If you want to experiment with a High Fat diet, a moderated support group is
available.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/

We now have 156 members.

The archives can be read without joining.

If you do join, Yahoo has a Daily Digest option available, where you only
get one email per day with all the posts.

Dave

"MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Praise the lard
> The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of animal
> fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
> By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune
>
> Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
> whipping cream.
>
> That's at 8 a.m.
>
> "At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind
> of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains.
> Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
> boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more
> butter or lard.
>
> Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with
> lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.
>
> In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with
> a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."
>
> Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
> slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
> hungry."
>
> She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with an
> estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
> is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
> consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.
>
> The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
> Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for
> a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
> many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors
> . . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
> according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
> experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the
> ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
> one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.
>
> After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
> published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
> converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
> from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
> native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
> there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
> Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
> newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.
>
> It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
> 1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
> factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed me
> this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few weeks
> later, Peschak started the diet.
>
> It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago would
> become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
> Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
> opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
> nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a
> restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
> manager.
>
> Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts
> the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
> de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
> the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
> reach for his heart.
>
> 250 grams of fat per day
>
> On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
> about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
> maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat
> allowed.
>
> So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to have
> lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the mainstream
> medical establishment there and here is skeptical.
>
> "I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing
> internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
> University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
> there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because
> it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will give
> you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good
> for you."
>
> Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
> Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
> increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.
>
> "Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
> and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is
> pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are
> fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."
>
> On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park,
> about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
> meeting and shared their stories.
>
> There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of Niles,
> who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at
> the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
> chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.
>
> "Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up
> six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old.
> I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never
> am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
> feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."
>
> Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
> variation of the diet his whole life.
>
> "Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat
> and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
> interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
> generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
> good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
> piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
> regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
> went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."
>
> Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
> phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
> suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
> of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.
>
> No more problems
>
> "I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
> but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
> stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
> energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs,
> bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
> weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but
> after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my weight
> has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal
> for my height."
>
> Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
> does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
> standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
> diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
> patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
> results."
>
> Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim
> weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.
>
> Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
> diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
> could be totally cured.
>
> "Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
> hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
> had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
> check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.
>
> "For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
> the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
> feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
> friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
> after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
> cured."
>
> Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.
>
> "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
> diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can
> apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
> intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
> the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
> time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
> hypoglycemic."
>
> "But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
> Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go
> on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
> more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
> low-carb diets."
>
> No position from the AMA
>
> In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
> medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a
> position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
> for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.
>
> Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it
> outright.
>
> "I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
> the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and
> seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
> nutritionist.
>
> "But for the general public I see where there could be potential
> problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
> heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
> certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.
>
> "But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially
> if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
> psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
> healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
> eating these foods. It's old country eating."
>
> Mmmmm ... headcheese
>
> Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
> homodiet.netfirms.com
>
> BREAKFAST
>
> Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
> One soft-boiled egg
> Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
> Tea with lemon (no sugar)
>
> LUNCH
>
> Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
> Tea with lemon (no sugar)
>
> DINNER
>
> Broth with two egg yolks
> Hash browns
> One strip of bacon
>
> DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories
>
> *This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made headcheese,
> which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
> pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
> kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.
>
> Larding it on
>
> Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of Calma
> Optimal Foods:
>
> Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
> borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.
>
> Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
> headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.
>
> Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice creams;
> poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.
>
> Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish eggs,
> Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of house-rendered
> lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.
>
> In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
> pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a butter
> crust.
>
 
This brings up some good points for discussion.

1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of obesity,
it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges sizes.
But it does not happen.

2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most disease,
then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does not
seem to be the case.

3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
policies on?

4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
what are the medical authorities basing their
low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
policies on?

I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst now.
Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.

This is a great quote:

"I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
can
apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
hypoglycemic."

Sounds familiar, eh?

TC

MrPepper11 wrote:
> Praise the lard
> The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of

animal
> fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
> By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune
>
> Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
> whipping cream.
>
> That's at 8 a.m.
>
> "At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some

kind
> of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident

explains.
> Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
> boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in

more
> butter or lard.
>
> Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat

with
> lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.
>
> In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only

with
> a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."
>
> Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
> slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
> hungry."
>
> She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with

an
> estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
> is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
> consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.
>
> The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
> Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician

for
> a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
> many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic

factors
> . . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
> according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
> experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that

the
> ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
> one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.
>
> After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
> published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
> converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
> from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
> native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
> there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
> Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
> newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.
>
> It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
> 1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
> factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed

me
> this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few

weeks
> later, Peschak started the diet.
>
> It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago

would
> become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
> Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
> opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
> nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring,

a
> restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
> manager.
>
> Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely

restricts
> the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
> de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
> the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
> reach for his heart.
>
> 250 grams of fat per day
>
> On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
> about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
> maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated

fat
> allowed.
>
> So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to

have
> lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the

mainstream
> medical establishment there and here is skeptical.
>
> "I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a

practicing
> internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
> University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
> there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort

because
> it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will

give
> you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not

good
> for you."
>
> Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
> Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
> increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.
>
> "Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
> and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything

is
> pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people

are
> fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."
>
> On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage

Park,
> about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
> meeting and shared their stories.
>
> There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of

Niles,
> who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak

at
> the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
> chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.
>
> "Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run

up
> six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years

old.
> I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I

never
> am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
> feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."
>
> Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
> variation of the diet his whole life.
>
> "Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork

meat
> and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
> interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
> generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
> good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
> piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
> regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
> went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."
>
> Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
> phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
> suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
> of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.
>
> No more problems
>
> "I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
> but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
> stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
> energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried

eggs,
> bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
> weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth,

but
> after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my

weight
> has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of

normal
> for my height."
>
> Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
> does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
> standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
> diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
> patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
> results."
>
> Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who

claim
> weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.
>
> Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
> diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
> could be totally cured.
>
> "Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
> hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
> had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
> check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.
>
> "For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
> the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
> feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
> friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
> after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
> cured."
>
> Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his

reservations.
>
> "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
> diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You

can
> apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
> intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
> the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
> time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
> hypoglycemic."
>
> "But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
> Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should

go
> on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
> more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
> low-carb diets."
>
> No position from the AMA
>
> In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
> medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have

a
> position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
> for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.
>
> Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn

it
> outright.
>
> "I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
> the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods

and
> seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
> nutritionist.
>
> "But for the general public I see where there could be potential
> problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
> heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
> certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.
>
> "But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable,

especially
> if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
> psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
> healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
> eating these foods. It's old country eating."
>
> Mmmmm ... headcheese
>
> Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
> homodiet.netfirms.com
>
> BREAKFAST
>
> Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
> One soft-boiled egg
> Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
> Tea with lemon (no sugar)
>
> LUNCH
>
> Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
> Tea with lemon (no sugar)
>
> DINNER
>
> Broth with two egg yolks
> Hash browns
> One strip of bacon
>
> DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories
>
> *This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made

headcheese,
> which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
> pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
> kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.
>
> Larding it on
>
> Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of

Calma
> Optimal Foods:
>
> Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
> borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.
>
> Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
> headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.
>
> Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice

creams;
> poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.
>
> Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish

eggs,
> Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of

house-rendered
> lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.
>
> In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
> pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a

butter
> crust.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"TC" <[email protected]> wrote:

> This brings up some good points for discussion.


> 3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
> the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
> policies on?


A complex issue. Here is a small tidbit concerning the Nixon white
house. Seems it was deemed a good idea to grow corn. Corn syrup stored
well and tasted sweet and now it is just about everywhere. Thank you
Earl Butz secretary of agriculture for this sweet disaster aka cheap
calories. Farmers were able to use marginal lands, distillers were able
to make cheap whiskey and now type 2 and obesity are common expressions.


Bill

--
Zone 5 S Jersey USA Shade garden in a Japanese manner
Vision problems? http://www.ocutech.com/
Tell folks where to get your files FREE at http://www.DropLoad.com
39.63812° -75.02077°
 
"TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

>This brings up some good points for discussion.
>
>1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of obesity,
>it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges sizes.
>But it does not happen.
>
>2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most disease,
>then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does not
>seem to be the case.
>
>3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
>the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
>policies on?
>
>4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
>what are the medical authorities basing their
>low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
>policies on?
>
>I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst now.
>Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
>
>This is a great quote:
>
> "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
> diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
>can
> apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
> intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
> the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
> time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
> hypoglycemic."
>
>Sounds familiar, eh?
>
>TC


I think you are adding in "high-calories." I haven't seen that
mentioned, though people on the "Polish/Optimal" diet may be
consuming more calories. I had assumed they were consuming fewer
if they were losing weight.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
 
People who are not eating high fat diets do not necessarily eat white
flour, boxed, nukable meals. It is complex carbs from many vegetables
fruits and grains which are the healthy diet, in my opinion. It is not
the meat, or the high fat consumption, which I think takes us quickly
into a u shaped curve.

We were not meant to eat high fat and high meat protein. Look at your
teeth Terry. Look at your shriveled and unnecessary appendix, at your
gall bladder and digestive system designed to process bulk and fibre.

Yes. Stop eating junk. But do not extrapolate from that to substitute
the calories with meat protein.

And as I said at the top of the thread: my city has a sizable Polish
population. Really...!



Zee
 
We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs and
less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose weight.

A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How can
it not be? Especially with the amonts of fat being consumed on this
diet. They are talking about 250 grams of fat per day, that is 2250
calories of fat alone, then add the carbs and the proteins.

Remember that there has been a few studies that showed clearly that low
carbers can eat up to about around 300 kcals per day more than low-fat
dieters and still lose more weight.

You can't assume that just because someone is losing weight that they
are eating less calories. That connection is now in serious doubt.
Calories do matter, but not in the simple, cut-and-dried way that
nutritionists like to believe. It is a bit more complex than just
calories-in vs calories-out. Quality of food and calories do matter.

TC


Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:
>
> >This brings up some good points for discussion.
> >
> >1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of

obesity,
> >it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges

sizes.
> >But it does not happen.
> >
> >2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most

disease,
> >then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does

not
> >seem to be the case.
> >
> >3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what

are
> >the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
> >policies on?
> >
> >4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
> >what are the medical authorities basing their
> >low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
> >policies on?
> >
> >I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst

now.
> >Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
> >
> >This is a great quote:
> >
> > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone

and
> > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
> >can
> > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
> > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in

all
> > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all

the
> > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
> > hypoglycemic."
> >
> >Sounds familiar, eh?
> >
> >TC

>
> I think you are adding in "high-calories." I haven't seen that
> mentioned, though people on the "Polish/Optimal" diet may be
> consuming more calories. I had assumed they were consuming fewer
> if they were losing weight.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
 
zee wrote:
> People who are not eating high fat diets do not necessarily eat white
> flour, boxed, nukable meals. It is complex carbs from many vegetables
> fruits and grains which are the healthy diet, in my opinion. It is

not
> the meat, or the high fat consumption, which I think takes us

quickly
> into a u shaped curve.
>


Fats and proteins do not contribute to obesity as does refined carbs.

> We were not meant to eat high fat and high meat protein. Look at your
> teeth Terry. Look at your shriveled and unnecessary appendix, at your
> gall bladder and digestive system designed to process bulk and fibre.
>


Actually, I have to completely disagree with you here. And I've looked
at our teeth and GI systems. We are primarily carnivorous omnivores.
The GI tract is short like other carnivores in order to quickly pass
thru meats. Out GI tract did not evolve to handle large amounts of bulk
and fibre. We have no gizzard and only one relatively small stomach
unlike birds who eat grains and cows with four stomachs.


> Yes. Stop eating junk. But do not extrapolate from that to substitute
> the calories with meat protein.
>


Not necessarily only meat proteins, but also copious amounts of meat
fats from healthy animals.

> And as I said at the top of the thread: my city has a sizable Polish
> population. Really...!
>
>
>
> Zee


So has my area of the world. But around here they eat a lot of perogies
(flour and potatoes), cabbage rolls (white rice), sweets and sodas
(sugars) and they've adopted pasta noodles (flour again, but in larger
amounts). A lot of obesity and disease in these communities too. My
ex-girlfriend and her family are a perfect example of what I speak of.
I saw how they eat as a family when I went out with her, years ago, and
the last time I saw them, at a funeral of all places, they were all
very obese and/or very ill. It was a really sad event for me, even
sadder yet than the funeral, to see them in such poor condition.

TC
 
I'm not anti-lowcarbing. It just seemed to me that the amounts of
weight loss described over the periods described are more
consistent with a drop in caloric intake than anything else,
including effects of ketosis. I've tracked my diet in detail for a
long time now. I eat fewer calories when I take in fewer carbs.
When I eat a lot of carbs, especially processed carbs, I am
hungrier and I eat more.

There don't seem to be any good data on this (Polish Atkins).

Jim

"TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

>
>We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs and
>less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose weight.
>
>A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How can
>it not be? Especially with the amonts of fat being consumed on this
>diet. They are talking about 250 grams of fat per day, that is 2250
>calories of fat alone, then add the carbs and the proteins.
>
>Remember that there has been a few studies that showed clearly that low
>carbers can eat up to about around 300 kcals per day more than low-fat
>dieters and still lose more weight.
>
>You can't assume that just because someone is losing weight that they
>are eating less calories. That connection is now in serious doubt.
>Calories do matter, but not in the simple, cut-and-dried way that
>nutritionists like to believe. It is a bit more complex than just
>calories-in vs calories-out. Quality of food and calories do matter.
>
>TC
>
>
>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>> "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:
>>
>> >This brings up some good points for discussion.
>> >
>> >1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of

>obesity,
>> >it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges

>sizes.
>> >But it does not happen.
>> >
>> >2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most

>disease,
>> >then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does

>not
>> >seem to be the case.
>> >
>> >3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what

>are
>> >the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
>> >policies on?
>> >
>> >4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
>> >what are the medical authorities basing their
>> >low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
>> >policies on?
>> >
>> >I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst

>now.
>> >Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
>> >
>> >This is a great quote:
>> >
>> > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone

>and
>> > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
>> >can
>> > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
>> > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in

>all
>> > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all

>the
>> > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
>> > hypoglycemic."
>> >
>> >Sounds familiar, eh?
>> >
>> >TC

>>
>> I think you are adding in "high-calories." I haven't seen that
>> mentioned, though people on the "Polish/Optimal" diet may be
>> consuming more calories. I had assumed they were consuming fewer
>> if they were losing weight.
>> --
>> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA


--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
 
Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
> I'm not anti-lowcarbing. It just seemed to me that the amounts of
> weight loss described over the periods described are more
> consistent with a drop in caloric intake than anything else,
> including effects of ketosis. I've tracked my diet in detail for a
> long time now. I eat fewer calories when I take in fewer carbs.
> When I eat a lot of carbs, especially processed carbs, I am
> hungrier and I eat more.


Your observation underscores the need for the 2PD-OMER Approach.

Those who use the 2PD-OMER Approach are empowered to avoid eating more
and befriend hunger secure in the knowledge that they are eating the
"right" amount.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
TC wrote:
>
> We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs and
> less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose weight.
>
> A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How can
> it not be?


By being less food overall.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
zee wrote:
>
> People who are not eating high fat diets do not necessarily eat white
> flour, boxed, nukable meals. It is complex carbs from many vegetables
> fruits and grains which are the healthy diet, in my opinion. It is not
> the meat, or the high fat consumption, which I think takes us quickly
> into a u shaped curve.


Its the amount.

> We were not meant to eat high fat and high meat protein.


We were not meant to eat that much. If Terry Schiavo were given water,
it could very well be several weeks before she would die from
starvation.

> Look at your
> teeth Terry. Look at your shriveled and unnecessary appendix, at your
> gall bladder and digestive system designed to process bulk and fibre.


Actually, the front canines and the hydrochloric acid in the stomach
(and the absence of multiple cud processing stomachs) would suggest that
we are omnivorous rather than strictly vegan and carnivorous.

> Yes. Stop eating junk.


In truth, it would be far wiser to reduce the amount by using the
2PD-OMER Approach.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
TC wrote:
>
> This brings up some good points for discussion.
>
> 1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of obesity,
> it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges sizes.
> But it does not happen.


The root cause of obesity is overeating. There are high calories with
overeating although the percentage fat will vary.


> 2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most disease,
> then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does not
> seem to be the case.


The root contributor to many chronic illnesses is adiposity.


> 3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
> the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
> policies on?


In truth a high-fat diet is not the same as a high-calorie diet. The
latter can occur with large quantities of carbohydrates and zero fat.


> 4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
> what are the medical authorities basing their
> low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
> policies on?


On the effects of dietary fat on elevating serum cholesterol.

> I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst now.
> Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
>
> This is a great quote:
>
> "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
> diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
> can
> apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
> intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
> the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
> time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
> hypoglycemic."
>
> Sounds familiar, eh?
>
> TC


It is wiser to lose weight by eating less per the 2PD-OMER Approach.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2 PD
diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here find
your board certified stupidity quite comical.

TC


Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> TC wrote:
> >
> > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs

and
> > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose

weight.
> >
> > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How

can
> > it not be?

>
> By being less food overall.
>
> At His service,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Board-Certified Cardiologist
>
> **
> Suggested Reading:
> (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
> (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
So far, you seem to be the lone contrarian here. Guess that is why you
are bristling. It betrays the deep-seated fear in you heart. Without
Lord Christ, there can only be fear.

You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love in Jesus' holy
name.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129


TC wrote:
>
> I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
> view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2 PD
> diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here find
> your board certified stupidity quite comical.
>
> TC
>
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > TC wrote:
> > >
> > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs

> and
> > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose

> weight.
> > >
> > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How

> can
> > > it not be?

> >
> > By being less food overall.
> >
> > At His service,
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > --
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > Board-Certified Cardiologist
> >
> > **
> > Suggested Reading:
> > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
> > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
And your religious ramblings are a real laugh too. Although that drivel
does get kinda pathetic after a while. Comes a time when you have to
quit the silly Jesus slogans and actually live a christian life. And
peddling a ridiculous 2 lb diet isn't helping anyone and any christian
way. The more you repeat religious stuff the less christian you appear.

TC

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> So far, you seem to be the lone contrarian here. Guess that is why

you
> are bristling. It betrays the deep-seated fear in you heart.

Without
> Lord Christ, there can only be fear.
>
> You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love in Jesus' holy
> name.
>
> At His service,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Board-Certified Cardiologist
>
> **
> Suggested Reading:
> (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
> (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
>
>
> TC wrote:
> >
> > I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
> > view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2

PD
> > diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here

find
> > your board certified stupidity quite comical.
> >
> > TC
> >
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > TC wrote:
> > > >
> > > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more

carbs
> > and
> > > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose

> > weight.
> > > >
> > > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories.

How
> > can
> > > > it not be?
> > >
> > > By being less food overall.
> > >
> > > At His service,
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > > Board-Certified Cardiologist
> > >
> > > **
> > > Suggested Reading:
> > > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> > > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
> > > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> > > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> > > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> > > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> > > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Written laughter on Usenet is silent despair.

Truth is simple.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

TC wrote:
>
> And your religious ramblings are a real laugh too. Although that drivel
> does get kinda pathetic after a while. Comes a time when you have to
> quit the silly Jesus slogans and actually live a christian life. And
> peddling a ridiculous 2 lb diet isn't helping anyone and any christian
> way. The more you repeat religious stuff the less christian you appear.
>
> TC
>
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > So far, you seem to be the lone contrarian here. Guess that is why

> you
> > are bristling. It betrays the deep-seated fear in you heart.

> Without
> > Lord Christ, there can only be fear.
> >
> > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love in Jesus' holy
> > name.
> >
> > At His service,
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > --
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > Board-Certified Cardiologist
> >
> > **
> > Suggested Reading:
> > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
> > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
> >
> >
> > TC wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
> > > view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2

> PD
> > > diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here

> find
> > > your board certified stupidity quite comical.
> > >
> > > TC
> > >
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > TC wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more

> carbs
> > > and
> > > > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose
> > > weight.
> > > > >
> > > > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories.

> How
> > > can
> > > > > it not be?
> > > >
> > > > By being less food overall.
> > > >
> > > > At His service,
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > > > Board-Certified Cardiologist
> > > >
> > > > **
> > > > Suggested Reading:
> > > > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> > > > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
> > > > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> > > > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> > > > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> > > > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> > > > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Written laughter is a clear expression of ones beliefs.

Written religious slogans are a cover-up to a lack of substance.

You are simple.

TC

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Written laughter on Usenet is silent despair.
>
> Truth is simple.
>
> At His service,
>
> Andrew
>