Lance's latest excuse..

"Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> But after admitting he'd made the basic but costly mistake of not drinking enough water for the
> hilly trek in the hottest ever day on the Tour so
far,
> the 31-year-old American threw down the gauntlet to his challengers.
>
> "Jan had a great day but don't forget that he's rarely beat me in a time trial on the Tour de
> France," Armstrong said defiantly before conceding
that
> he spent a hellish day in the saddle.
>
> "Maybe it was too hot for me. I suffered," added Armstrong, who had called Friday's time trial the
> most important time trial in his Tour career.
>
> "I didn't feel so good on the (last) climb. There was a moment where I
felt
> like I was going backwards. I felt thirsty throughout the stage and it was the thirstiest I've
> ever felt in a time trial."
>
> -----------------
>
> doesn't even an amateur know to pre-hydrate? I don't believe Lance
anymore.

Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should include the source so that people
know if they can believe you.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:24:29 -0700, "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote:

>doesn't even an amateur know to pre-hydrate? I don't believe Lance anymore.

Did you see him after the TT? Unless a make up artist added the rabies like foaming at the mouth
look, Lance was wiped.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

> Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should include the source so that people
> know if they can believe you.

It's from VeloNews:

http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html

Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich in the mountains, which I think
is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the final ITT to find out if he can reverse today's results.
He's riding far too defensively this year.

"Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should include
the
> > source so that people know if they can believe you.
>
> It's from VeloNews:
>
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html
>
> Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich in the mountains, which I
> think is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the final
ITT
> to find out if he can reverse today's results. He's riding far too defensively this year.

I have to agree! Ullrich is far too big a threat. The showdown is going to be in the Pyrenees, as so
many have said. If Armstrong can't put A LOT more time into Ullrich there, Ullrich could very well
****** the yellow jersey on the penultimate stage. Ullrich is in the driver's seat for this Tour,
unless Armstrong can find his climbing legs.

Ryan

"Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should include
the
> > source so that people know if they can believe you.
>
> It's from VeloNews:
>
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html
>
Thanks.

> Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich in the mountains, which I
> think is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the final
ITT
> to find out if he can reverse today's results. He's riding far too defensively this year.

The most interesting thing in that article is the view (Riis) that those that went too hard may
pay for it in the hot and steep stages coming up. I suppose tomorrow will tell a lot about
Ullrich's recovery. If he finishes without losing time to Lance, then I say he becomes the odds on
favorite. However, with one more ITT and 3 more mountain stages to come, this race could blow wide
open at any time.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:24:29 -0700, Callistus Valerius wrote:

> But after admitting he'd made the basic but costly mistake of not drinking enough water for the
> hilly trek in the hottest ever day on the Tour so far, the 31-year-old American threw down the
> gauntlet to his challengers.
>
> "Jan had a great day but don't forget that he's rarely beat me in a time trial on the Tour de
> France," Armstrong said defiantly before conceding that he spent a hellish day in the saddle.
>
> "Maybe it was too hot for me. I suffered," added Armstrong, who had called Friday's time trial the
> most important time trial in his Tour career.
>
> "I didn't feel so good on the (last) climb. There was a moment where I felt like I was going
> backwards. I felt thirsty throughout the stage and it was the thirstiest I've ever felt in a
> time trial."
>
> -----------------
>
> doesn't even an amateur know to pre-hydrate? I don't believe Lance anymore.

No, neither do I.

He must have been talking to McWhiner too judging by the excuses he comes up with

Shoot, Ullrich didn't beat him, he Obliterated him

> He must have been talking to McWhiner too judging by the excuses he comes up with

OK, if people are hanging around Lance and stuffing mics in his face, what do you want him to say?
He seems to have told the honest truth, yet the Lance Vultures define this as an excuse.

> Shoot, Ullrich didn't beat him, he Obliterated him

Yep, snatched that bright yellow jersey right off his back. With the dominating climbing form that
Ullrich displayed earlier in the race, it's pretty much a done deal, eh?

"Ryan M. Hare" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should include
> the
> > > source so that people know if they can believe you.
> >
> > It's from VeloNews:
> >
> > http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html
> >
> > Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich in
the
> > mountains, which I think is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the final
> ITT
> > to find out if he can reverse today's results. He's riding far too defensively this year.
>
> I have to agree! Ullrich is far too big a threat. The showdown is going to be in the Pyrenees, as
> so many have said. If Armstrong can't put A LOT
more
> time into Ullrich there, Ullrich could very well ****** the yellow jersey
on
> the penultimate stage. Ullrich is in the driver's seat for this Tour,
unless
> Armstrong can find his climbing legs.
>
> Ryan

Fixed it for you: Ullrich 'has a shot' for this Tour, unless 'he can't find his climbing legs'.

Armstrong already has his climbing legs, I don't think there's an issue there, is there? Jeff

What is the deal? He said he was exhuasted and felt like ****? He "suffered". Is that an excuse? An
excuse would be "the sun was in my eyes, or "The crowd was too close and put me off line". Who the
hell cares anyway?

Callistus Valerius wrote:

>But after admitting he'd made the basic but costly mistake of not drinking enough water for the
>hilly trek in the hottest ever day on the Tour so far, the 31-year-old American threw down the
>gauntlet to his challengers.
>
>"Jan had a great day but don't forget that he's rarely beat me in a time trial on the Tour de
>France," Armstrong said defiantly before conceding that he spent a hellish day in the saddle.
>
>"Maybe it was too hot for me. I suffered," added Armstrong, who had called Friday's time trial the
>most important time trial in his Tour career.
>
>"I didn't feel so good on the (last) climb. There was a moment where I felt like I was going
>backwards. I felt thirsty throughout the stage and it was the thirstiest I've ever felt in a
>time trial."
>
>-----------------
>
>doesn't even an amateur know to pre-hydrate? I don't believe Lance anymore.
>
>

"J Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Armstrong already has his climbing legs, I don't think there's an issue there, is there? Jeff

We'll know the answer to that by Tuesday. On Alpe d'Huez I thought that Armstong, while having a
high cadence, wasn't in a gear as high as he would have been last year. It seemed as though he
was spinning so fast that his front wheel was wobbling on two or three occasions as he closed
down attacks. Kind of reminded me of the mountain bike riders you see on the street riding too
low a gear.

The first thing to go is usually the climbing legs. A year ago Mayo might have gotten away for the
win but Vinikourov would not have put any time into Armstong It would have been the reverse. So, if
Armstong has found his climbing legs, they may not be the ones to win him the Tour now that he's a
distant second to Ullrich in the time trial. Armstong's statement that he'll sleep well with a 34
second advantage to Ullrich before the last tt, borders on hubris. But then that comes with
Texas.........Bush won the war, right?

Ulrich and Armstrong are playing headgames galore this year. If Armstrong hasn't chosen the second
round of mountains to make his big attack, instead of Huez, I'd expect Ulrich and Vinokourov to be
in the top two places. Do you really think Armstrong forgot to drink enough water today considering
he's got everything else calculated so precisely? What's great is you just can't tell until it's
over. Finally, an interesting tour after all these years. I think they designed the course this year
to delay the final selection 'til the last moment, but the heat wave helped a lot too.

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should include
> the
> > > source so that people know if they can believe you.
> >
> > It's from VeloNews:
> >
> > http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html
> >
> Thanks.
>
> > Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich in
the
> > mountains, which I think is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the final
> ITT
> > to find out if he can reverse today's results. He's riding far too defensively this year.
>
>
> The most interesting thing in that article is the view (Riis) that those that went too hard may
> pay for it in the hot and steep stages coming up. I suppose tomorrow will tell a lot about
> Ullrich's recovery. If he finishes without losing time to Lance, then I say he becomes the odds on
> favorite. However, with one more ITT and 3 more mountain stages to come, this race could blow wide
> open at any time.

"Gregory Kinney" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> What is the deal? He said he was exhuasted and felt like ****? He "suffered". Is that an excuse?
> An excuse would be "the sun was in my eyes, or "The crowd was too close and put me off line". Who
> the hell cares anyway?

I agree. I guess after hearing about the brakes everything seems like more excuse making. Honest, he
should know better than to talk about the brakes even if it was true. That will haunt him for years.
You just don't say that
IMO. Then again, things have changed so much in the last few decades. Just in this Tour alone there
has been so much garbage talk that never would have been said 20 years ago. Ah well...
>
> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>
> >But after admitting he'd made the basic but costly mistake of not
drinking
> >enough water for the hilly trek in the hottest ever day on the Tour so
far,
> >the 31-year-old American threw down the gauntlet to his challengers.
> >
> >"Jan had a great day but don't forget that he's rarely beat me in a time trial on the Tour de
> >France," Armstrong said defiantly before conceding
that
> >he spent a hellish day in the saddle.
> >
> >"Maybe it was too hot for me. I suffered," added Armstrong, who had
called
> >Friday's time trial the most important time trial in his Tour career.
> >
> >"I didn't feel so good on the (last) climb. There was a moment where I
felt
> >like I was going backwards. I felt thirsty throughout the stage and it
was
> >the thirstiest I've ever felt in a time trial."
> >
> >-----------------
> >
> >doesn't even an amateur know to pre-hydrate? I don't believe Lance
anymore.
> >
> >
> >

"Lee Hurd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Ulrich and Armstrong are playing headgames galore this year. If Armstrong hasn't chosen the second
> round of mountains to make his big attack,
instead
> of Huez, I'd expect Ulrich and Vinokourov to be in the top two places. Do you really think
> Armstrong forgot to drink enough water today considering he's got everything else calculated so
> precisely?

No, of course not. It is equally obvious that he did not plan it for show or head games. He ran out
because he needed more water than he thought he did. You think the guy is a robot? You just don't
put you body through that intentionally. No way, no how.

Honest to God.

What's great is you just
> can't tell until it's over. Finally, an interesting tour after all these years. I think they
> designed the course this year to delay the final selection 'til the last moment, but the heat wave
> helped a lot too.

It is really stupid to think that this is all planned. Some of you guys can really hallucinate.
Every day I read some of the most ridiculous statements. How in the hell is the Tour organization
going to predict that after the team time trial that it would be so close? They release the course
plan in November, The teams are finalised only a few months before the start. Dude! This is crazy
talk. Ullrich was has changed teams twice since the route was announced. SO even if the teams were
as predictable as you imply, how would...

Never mind. Why bother to explain?

>
> "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should
include
> > the
> > > > source so that people know if they can believe you.
> > >
> > > It's from VeloNews:
> > >
> > > http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html
> > >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > > Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich in
> the
> > > mountains, which I think is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the
final
> > ITT
> > > to find out if he can reverse today's results. He's riding far too defensively this year.
> >
> >
> > The most interesting thing in that article is the view (Riis) that those that went too hard may
> > pay for it in the hot and steep stages coming up.
I
> > suppose tomorrow will tell a lot about Ullrich's recovery. If he
finishes
> > without losing time to Lance, then I say he becomes the odds on
favorite.
> > However, with one more ITT and 3 more mountain stages to come, this race could blow wide open at
> > any time.
> >
>

In article <[email protected]>, Nick Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Lee Hurd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> > What's great is you just can't tell until it's over. Finally, an interesting tour after all
> > these years. I think they designed the course this year to delay the final selection 'til the
> > last moment, but the heat wave helped a lot too.
>
> It is really stupid to think that this is all planned. Some of you guys can really hallucinate.
> Every day I read some of the most ridiculous statements. How in the hell is the Tour organization
> going to predict that after the team time trial that it would be so close? They release the course
> plan in November, The teams are finalised only a few months before the start. Dude! This is crazy
> talk. Ullrich was has changed teams twice since the route was announced. SO even if the teams were
> as predictable as you imply, how would...
>
> Never mind. Why bother to explain?

The Tour has been less than extreme so far but putting four days in the Pyrenees in the last week
does tend to encourage riders to save themselves for a big effort there to determine the places. The
time differences so far are not unpredictable. The time differences after the TTT are about the same
as always and I think there is some intention by the organizers to make an interesting
race-especially for the 100th Anniversary.

Haven't you ever heard the comments by the organizers about a Tour route that favors Armstrong, or
Indurain, or Hinault, or this type of rider or that type of rider? The organizers do seem to take
into account who the likely players will be. An extreme example would be the Giro. Those organizers
have done some outrageous things to favor a certain (Italian) rider in a given year.

-WG

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Gregory Kinney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > What is the deal? He said he was exhuasted and felt like ****? He "suffered". Is that an excuse?
> > An excuse would be "the sun was in my eyes, or "The crowd was too close and put me off line".
> > Who the hell cares anyway?
>
> I agree. I guess after hearing about the brakes everything seems like more excuse making. Honest,
> he should know better than to talk about the brakes even if it was true. That will haunt him for
> years. You just don't say
that
> IMO. Then again, things have changed so much in the last few decades. Just in this Tour alone
> there has been so much garbage talk that never would
have
> been said 20 years ago. Ah well...

It would have been said, we just wouldn't have heard about it.

Bicycling news at the speed of light. Ah well... ;->

Dashii

"Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Gregory Kinney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > What is the deal? He said he was exhuasted and felt like ****? He "suffered". Is that an
> > > excuse? An excuse would be "the sun was in my eyes, or "The crowd was too close and put me off
> > > line". Who the hell cares anyway?
> >
> > I agree. I guess after hearing about the brakes everything seems like
more
> > excuse making. Honest, he should know better than to talk about the
brakes
> > even if it was true. That will haunt him for years. You just don't say
> that
> > IMO. Then again, things have changed so much in the last few decades.
Just
> > in this Tour alone there has been so much garbage talk that never would
> have
> > been said 20 years ago. Ah well...
>
> It would have been said, we just wouldn't have heard about it.
>
> Bicycling news at the speed of light. Ah well... ;->
>
> Dashii

No, I really think that riders attitudes have changed. There is not the same menatlity. I am not
complaining, just pointing it out. Riders used to be team employees. Now it is as if all of the
riders are their own boss and the sponsors are looked at as "partners". There is not much done any
longer for the sake of loyalty.

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:180720032148103366%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Nick Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Lee Hurd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
>
> > > What's great is you just can't tell until it's over. Finally, an interesting tour after all
these
> > > years. I think they designed the course this year to delay the final selection 'til the last
> > > moment, but the heat wave helped a lot too.
> >
> > It is really stupid to think that this is all planned. Some of you guys
can
> > really hallucinate. Every day I read some of the most ridiculous
statements.
> > How in the hell is the Tour organization going to predict that after the team time trial that it
> > would be so close? They release the course plan
in
> > November, The teams are finalised only a few months before the start.
Dude!
> > This is crazy talk. Ullrich was has changed teams twice since the route
was
> > announced. SO even if the teams were as predictable as you imply, how would...
> >
> > Never mind. Why bother to explain?
>
> The Tour has been less than extreme so far but putting four days in the Pyrenees in the last week
> does tend to encourage riders to save themselves for a big effort there to determine the places.
> The time differences so far are not unpredictable. The time differences after the TTT are about
> the same as always and I think there is some intention by the organizers to make an interesting
> race-especially for the 100th Anniversary.
>
> Haven't you ever heard the comments by the organizers about a Tour route that favors Armstrong, or
> Indurain, or Hinault, or this type of rider or that type of rider? The organizers do seem to take
> into account who the likely players will be. An extreme example would be the Giro. Those
> organizers have done some outrageous things to favor a certain (Italian) rider in a given year.
>
> -WG

If you have competitors with diverse talents then the course can have some influence. It almost
never turns out that way. For example, the course that Pantani won on was supposed to favor the time
trialists. Pantani complained bitterly and threatened to stay home. It surprised nobody that year
when he took it easy in the prologue. Still, he essentially won the race with one monster attack.

Now look at what happens when you have racers that are fairly close in skill sets. There is no way
the organizers can create a course that favor Armstrong over Ullrich or vice versa. Even if there is
a course that suits a rider, whatever they say is merely for posturing. Lance is not going to race
any differently. His race strategy is always to take as much time as he can manage in the time
trials and launch a mountain attack as soon as he can so that he can defend his position as soon as
possible. He does not like to wait. That is what he says and that is what he does.

The bottom line is that he is not waiting for any strategic reasons. He can't do anything yet.

I didn't hear that he lost 7 kilos until after I wrote. It still doesn't seem in character though
to make that kind of mistake, and he's won four tours precisely because he's been more willing to
be a robot than anyone else, but almost two weeks of riding in the nineties might be adding up.
Then again, after two weeks he must have a good idea of much water he needs. I'm sure we'll find
out later.

After 100 tours, I think the organizers might know something about how to keep a race exciting, and
though they can't predict exactly what will happen they know who will probably be the key riders,
and try to figure out a course that gives riders of different abilities opportunities to win the
whole thing, then they cross their fingers and hope everything works out well, otherwise why bother.
Even if they're not thinking names, they can think of rouleurs and climbers or strong teams and weak
teams and whoever shows up on form fills out the pattern. Ulrich did change teams twice this year,
but he's been Jan Ulrich for quite a while now.

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lee Hurd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Ulrich and Armstrong are playing headgames galore this year. If
Armstrong
> > hasn't chosen the second round of mountains to make his big attack,
> instead
> > of Huez, I'd expect Ulrich and Vinokourov to be in the top two places.
Do
> > you really think Armstrong forgot to drink enough water today
considering
> > he's got everything else calculated so precisely?
>
> No, of course not. It is equally obvious that he did not plan it for show
or
> head games. He ran out because he needed more water than he thought he
did.
> You think the guy is a robot? You just don't put you body through that intentionally. No
> way, no how.
>
> Honest to God.
>
> What's great is you just
> > can't tell until it's over. Finally, an interesting tour after all these years. I think they
> > designed the course this year to delay the final selection 'til the last moment, but the heat
> > wave helped a lot too.
>
> It is really stupid to think that this is all planned. Some of you guys
can
> really hallucinate. Every day I read some of the most ridiculous
statements.
> How in the hell is the Tour organization going to predict that after the team time trial that it
> would be so close? They release the course plan in November, The teams are finalised only a few
> months before the start.
Dude!
> This is crazy talk. Ullrich was has changed teams twice since the route
was
> announced. SO even if the teams were as predictable as you imply, how would...
>
> Never mind. Why bother to explain?
>
>
> >
> > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > Are you bullshitting again? Did he really say that? You should
> include
> > > the
> > > > > source so that people know if they can believe you.
> > > >
> > > > It's from VeloNews:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/details/articles/4570.1.html
> > > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > > Interestingly, Lance doesn't seem to think he has to attack Ullrich
in
> > the
> > > > mountains, which I think is a fatal mistake. He can't rely on the
> final
> > > ITT
> > > > to find out if he can reverse today's results. He's riding far too defensively this year.
> > >
> > >
> > > The most interesting thing in that article is the view (Riis) that
those
> > > that went too hard may pay for it in the hot and steep stages coming
up.
> I
> > > suppose tomorrow will tell a lot about Ullrich's recovery. If he
> finishes
> > > without losing time to Lance, then I say he becomes the odds on
> favorite.
> > > However, with one more ITT and 3 more mountain stages to come, this
race
> > > could blow wide open at any time.
> > >
> > >
> >
>

"Lee Hurd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I didn't hear that he lost 7 kilos until after I wrote. It still doesn't seem in character though
> to make that kind of mistake,

The question I can't find an answer to is *why* did Lance run out of water?

If they can only carry water on the bike during a TT, and they are not allowed to get more, then all
riders should have had roughly the same amount. Is the mistake that Lance drank too much of his
water too quickly?

Short of dropping a bottle or something, just why wasn't the water Lance was carrying
enough for him?