thoughts from chris carmichael on lance deing dehydrated



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Dwjones

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An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success: crashing, bonking, and getting
dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms of body weight between waking up and finishing
Stage 12 yesterday, all of it fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his
power was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday and today are
remarkable.

Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor fall,
once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of
either fuel (bonking) or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to dehydration leads to a 10-15% drop in
sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your body weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power.
Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition characterized
by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the body through sweating.

Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well. In an effort to continue
racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to dig very deep and expend more energy per unit time
than normal. That means that even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
level was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing his lost fluids,
takes time.

Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids out
of your body than it is replenishing them. It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating
to the extent he did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a lot of
water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy he lost
earlier in the day. By this morning, his waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was
nearly normal, but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during Stage
13.

While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently consumed fluids throughout the
stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing
Alexander Vinokorouv in the final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability to recover from hard efforts.
Part of what makes him a champion is his ability to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then
recover to be able to do it again the following day.

Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance during
Stage 14. His goal is still to find opportunities to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before
Tuesday's rest day. Though his legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with
a strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.
 
How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?

dwjones wrote:
>
> An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success: crashing, bonking, and getting
> dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms of body weight between waking up and finishing
> Stage 12 yesterday, all of it fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of
> his power was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday and today are
> remarkable.
>
> Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor
> fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out
> of either fuel (bonking) or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
> replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to dehydration leads to a 10-15% drop
> in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your body weight, you can lose at least 20% of your
> power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
> characterized by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the body through
> sweating.
>
> Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well. In an effort to continue
> racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to dig very deep and expend more energy per unit time
> than normal. That means that even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
> level was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing his lost fluids,
> takes time.
>
> Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids
> out of your body than it is replenishing them. It takes more than 24 hours to recover from
> dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed
> a lot of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and
> energy he lost earlier in the day. By this morning, his waking body weight (measured after using
> the bathroom) was nearly normal, but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal
> during Stage
> 13.
>
> While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently consumed fluids throughout the
> stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing
> Alexander Vinokorouv in the final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
> considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability to recover from hard
> efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his ability to put in huge efforts on one stage, and
> then recover to be able to do it again the following day.
>
> Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance during
> Stage 14. His goal is still to find opportunities to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before
> Tuesday's rest day. Though his legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and
> with a strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.
 
who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than the athlete's own coach.
"David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
>
> dwjones wrote:
> >
> > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
crashing,
> > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms
of
> > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of
it
> > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his
power
> > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday
and
> > today are remarkable.
> >
> > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor
> > fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run
> > out of either fuel
(bonking)
> > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you replenish what you're
> > missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
dehydration
> > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your
body
> > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at
> > serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
characterized
> > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
body
> > through sweating.
> >
> > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well.
In
> > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to
dig
> > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means
that
> > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
level
> > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing
his
> > lost fluids, takes time.
> >
> > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids
> > out of your body than it is replenishing
them.
> > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how much
> > you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a
lot
> > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy
> > he lost earlier in the day. By this morning,
his
> > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
normal,
> > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
Stage
> > 13.
> >
> > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
consumed
> > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on
> > Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in
the
> > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
> > encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability
to
> > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
ability
> > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do
it
> > again the following day.
> >
> > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance
> > during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
opportunities
> > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though
his
> > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a strong team around him,
> > he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.
 
"dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message

<plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>

Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
 
how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to the post. it is quite
clear that the words in my post was his. "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
>
> Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
 
dwjones wrote:
>
> how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to the post. it is quite
> clear that the words in my post was his.

FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

> "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> >
> > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> >
 
In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones <[email protected]> wrote:

> who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than the athlete's own coach.

He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that. Lance's
association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

-WG

> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
> >
> > dwjones wrote:
> > >
> > > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
> crashing,
> > > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms
> of
> > > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of
> it
> > > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his
> power
> > > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday
> and
> > > today are remarkable.
> > >
> > > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor
> > > fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run
> > > out of either fuel
> (bonking)
> > > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you replenish what you're
> > > missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
> dehydration
> > > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your
> body
> > > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at
> > > serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
> characterized
> > > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
> body
> > > through sweating.
> > >
> > > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well.
> In
> > > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to
> dig
> > > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means
> that
> > > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
> level
> > > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing
> his
> > > lost fluids, takes time.
> > >
> > > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling
> > > fluids out of your body than it is replenishing
> them.
> > > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how
> > > much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a
> lot
> > > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy
> > > he lost earlier in the day. By this morning,
> his
> > > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
> normal,
> > > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
> Stage
> > > 13.
> > >
> > > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
> consumed
> > > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing seven seconds down on
> > > Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in
> the
> > > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
> > > encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability
> to
> > > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
> ability
> > > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do
> it
> > > again the following day.
> > >
> > > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a strong performance
> > > during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
> opportunities
> > > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though
> his
> > > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a strong team around him,
> > > he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow jersey.
 
then why does it say that he is armstrong's coach in his bio? "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:190720031905330362%[email protected]...
> In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than
the
> > athlete's own coach.
>
>
> He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
> Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
>
> -WG
>
>
> > "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
> > >
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
> > crashing,
> > > > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six
kilograms
> > of
> > > > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all
of
> > it
> > > > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of
his
> > power
> > > > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did
yesterday
> > and
> > > > today are remarkable.
> > > >
> > > > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes
preferable
> > > > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can
continue
> > > > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel
> > (bonking)
> > > > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until
you
> > > > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
> > dehydration
> > > > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of
your
> > body
> > > > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid
loss
> > > > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
> > characterized
> > > > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
> > body
> > > > through sweating.
> > > >
> > > > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as
well.
> > In
> > > > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has
to
> > dig
> > > > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That
means
> > that
> > > > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
> > level
> > > > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and
replenishing
> > his
> > > > lost fluids, takes time.
> > > >
> > > > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling
> > > > fluids out of your body than it is replenishing
> > them.
> > > > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the
extent he
> > > > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance
consumed a
> > lot
> > > > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the
fluids,
> > > > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this
morning,
> > his
> > > > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
> > normal,
> > > > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
> > Stage
> > > > 13.
> > > >
> > > > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
> > consumed
> > > > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals.
Finishing
> > > > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv
in
> > the
> > > > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
> > > > encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing
ability
> > to
> > > > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
> > ability
> > > > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to
do
> > it
> > > > again the following day.
> > > >
> > > > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and
have a
> > > > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
> > opportunities
> > > > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day.
Though
> > his
> > > > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with
a
> > > > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his
yellow
> > > > jersey.
 
David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> dwjones wrote:
> >
> > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to the post. it is
> > quite clear that the words in my post was his.
>
> FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
>
> > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >
> > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > >
> > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> > >
> > >

Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".

It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....
 
this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this article written from chris
carmichael did not come from a paid site. it was in the public domain that anyone could have access
to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of your ass "Isidor Gunsberg"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > dwjones wrote:
> > >
> > > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the
title to
> > > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
> >
> > FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
> >
> > > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > > >
> > > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
> Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
> strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
> that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".
>
> It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
> paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
> goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....
 
"dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04...
> this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright.

You mean like a joke?

this
> article written from chris carmichael did not come from a paid site. it
was
> in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of
> your ass "Isidor Gunsberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the
> title to
> > > > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
> > >
> > > FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
> > >
> > > > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > > "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > > > >
> > > > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an
alternative.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
> > strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
> > that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".
> >
> > It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
> > paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
> > goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....
 
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:190720031905330362%[email protected]...
> In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than
the
> > athlete's own coach.
>

You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state that Lance is his client, I
find it amazing that anyone would argue the point. Why does anyone else other than those two get to
define what their relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes and met
Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.

I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching instructions from someone other than
Chris, you would certainly be entitled to mention that, but you don't have that now, do you?

>
> He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
> Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
>
> -WG
>
>
> > "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
> > >
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
> > crashing,
> > > > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six
kilograms
> > of
> > > > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all
of
> > it
> > > > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of
his
> > power
> > > > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did
yesterday
> > and
> > > > today are remarkable.
> > > >
> > > > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes
preferable
> > > > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can
continue
> > > > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel
> > (bonking)
> > > > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until
you
> > > > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
> > dehydration
> > > > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of
your
> > body
> > > > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid
loss
> > > > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
> > characterized
> > > > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
> > body
> > > > through sweating.
> > > >
> > > > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as
well.
> > In
> > > > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has
to
> > dig
> > > > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That
means
> > that
> > > > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
> > level
> > > > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and
replenishing
> > his
> > > > lost fluids, takes time.
> > > >
> > > > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling
> > > > fluids out of your body than it is replenishing
> > them.
> > > > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the
extent he
> > > > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance
consumed a
> > lot
> > > > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the
fluids,
> > > > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this
morning,
> > his
> > > > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
> > normal,
> > > > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
> > Stage
> > > > 13.
> > > >
> > > > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
> > consumed
> > > > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals.
Finishing
> > > > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv
in
> > the
> > > > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things considered. Even more
> > > > encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing
ability
> > to
> > > > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
> > ability
> > > > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to
do
> > it
> > > > again the following day.
> > > >
> > > > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and
have a
> > > > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
> > opportunities
> > > > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day.
Though
> > his
> > > > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with
a
> > > > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his
yellow
> > > > jersey.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Nick Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:190720031905330362%[email protected]...
> > In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than
> the
> > > athlete's own coach.
> >
>
> You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state that Lance is his client, I
> find it amazing that anyone would argue the point. Why does anyone else other than those two get
> to define what their relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes and
> met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.
>
> I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching instructions from someone other than
> Chris, you would certainly be entitled to mention that, but you don't have that now, do you?

I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the details. Trust me, Chris is fully
aware that he doesn't know enough to be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of Lance's
caliber or even a rider a fair bit below that level.

For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the time
he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.

You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.

-WG

> > He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
> > Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
> >
> > -WG
 
"dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04...
> this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this article written from chris
> carmichael did not come from a paid site. it
was
> in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of
> your ass

The issue isn't copyright or plagiarizing. The issue is credibility and context. Without being able
to go directly to the source itself no one knows whether what was posted is accurate or if so what
the context is. It is important to include the source/URL.
 
Steve D wrote:
> So Lance was the only one to dehydrate? And no won else did? We've all read about how he is
> meticulous in his preparation. How could this have happened? Nobody to bring him any bottles?...
>
> Steve

He bonked on that climb in 1999. I wonder how many other top cyclists

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
 
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:15:57 GMT, "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote:

><plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
>
>Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.

Did you not read the subject title?
 
warren wrote:
> For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the time
> he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
> training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
> Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.

That fits, but I assigned it to confidentiality. And a lot of discomfort with Kirsten Gum. :)

> You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
> involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.
>
> -WG

CC is a former rider and coach, not an M.D.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
 
"dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04>...
> this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this article written from chris
> carmichael did not come from a paid site. it was in the public domain that anyone could have
> access to. so lighten up and take the butt plug out of your ass

A little defensive aren't you? You obviously are completely ignorant when it comes to knowledge
about copyright.

Hint: just because something is "free" on the Internet does not give you the right to post it
where you will.

Once a work is created, the composer of that work automatically holds the copyright.

Why don't you try publishing a Cycling Magazine comprised of Free content that you gleaned from
the Web? Then you'll probably get a better idea of Copyright.

> "Isidor Gunsberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the
> title to
> > > > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
> > >
> > > FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
> > >
> > > > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > > "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > > > >
> > > > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
> > strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
> > that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".
> >
> > It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly quote a few passages, to
> > paraphrase other portions, and to give a link to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job
> > goes beyond bounds, and infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....
 
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> warren wrote:
> > For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the
> > time he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
> > training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
> > Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.
>
> That fits, but I assigned it to confidentiality. And a lot of discomfort with Kirsten Gum. :)
>
> > You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
> > involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.
> >
> > -WG
>
> CC is a former rider and coach, not an M.D.
>

Though it is very unlikely that they are involved in his coaching, both his father and brother
are M.D.s.
 
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:190720032112105407%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Nick Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:190720031905330362%[email protected]...
> > > In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect
than
> > the
> > > > athlete's own coach.
> > >
> >
> > You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state
that
> > Lance is his client, I find it amazing that anyone would argue the
point.
> > Why does anyone else other than those two get to define what their relationship is? Not only
> > that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes
and
> > met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.
> >
> > I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching
instructions
> > from someone other than Chris, you would certainly be entitled to
mention
> > that, but you don't have that now, do you?
>
> I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the details. Trust me, Chris is
> fully aware that he doesn't know enough to be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of
> Lance's caliber or even a rider a fair bit below that level.
>
> For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's training. Nearly all of the time
> he simply reports what Lance is doing. He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for
> training. And watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the details of
> Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC always looks so nervous on that show.
>
> You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get some hints about his
> involvement with Lance's training plans and where he gets them.
>
> -WG
>
>
> > > He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very expert advisor at that.
> > > Lance's association with Chris is more about friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
> > >
> > > -WG

He is a coach. I am sure both of them consult with Ferrari, but the daily coaching duties are
done by CC.
 
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