Moab 2005 - Page 3

Re: Moab 2005

Insurance is needed if the BLM requests it. They manage the trails, so
they get to set the rules. They aren't being any more unreasonable than
any other venue owner / manager I've been dealing with since 1999 in
organizing NAUCC (last year's Moab event attracted about 130 riders
versus about 175 at NAUCC in Salt Lake City.

Remember the purpose of the general liability insurance is to protect
against potential unforseen damage to the venue - in this case, the Moab
trails and other parks facilities. It is not personal injury insurance.


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Re: Moab 2005

I can't justify flying all the way out for only 3 days of riding...is
anyone else going to be there starting around the 26th or 27th? Also,
how far from SLC is Moab, and how close are the nearest hotels to
Moab?

-grant


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Re: Moab 2005

tennisgh22 wrote:
> *I can't justify flying all the way out for only 3 days of riding...is
> anyone else going to be there starting around the 26th or 27th? Also,
> how far from SLC is Moab, and how close are the nearest hotels to
> Moab?
>
> -grant *


Flying in to get to Moab is a bit inconvenient. You have to fly in to
the Salt Lake City airport and from there it is about a five hour drive
to Moab.

You'll need to rent a car or meet up with someone at the airport to
carpool down to Moab. You'll have to plan a flight so that you arrive
early enough to drive down to Moab that day or you can choose to stay at
a motel near the airport and then drive down the next day. It would
sure be a lot more convenient if Moab was closer to the main airport.

There are lots of motels in Moab. Moab isn't a big city so the motels
are generally close together. But they will fill up at that time of
year so you'll need reservations. You'll also need a car to be able to
get from the motel to the riding area. If you carpool you'll need to
have everyone you carpool with stay at the same motel so everyone can
get to the riding area. The other option is to camp. Rolf camps every
year and there are others who pitch a tent and camp too. I've done the
camping thing at Moab before. It gets cold at night. Really cold.
Near freezing cold. There is also no running water or showers at the
camp. Motels are warmer and have showers.

Staying for only three days of riding misses a lot of the Moab
experience. It makes it harder to justify the big trip and the driving
back and forth from the airport. The better option would be to plan to
stay a couple extra days and go see the sights around Moab like a normal
tourist instead of a unicycle rider. 'Arches National Park'
(http://www.arches.national-park.com/) is right outside of Moab. It is
well worth spending one or two days to see the park. There are other
sights to see around Moab too. Combine the Moab Muni Fest with one or
two days at Arches National Park and it is well worth the trip to Moab.
My suggestion though would be to tour Arches before the Moab Muni Fest
while you can still walk comfortably. My legs get stiff and sore after
three days of unicycling at Moab. I toured Arches after the Moab Muni
Fest last year and my legs were very sore. Made it tough to do all the
walking around Arches.

I've been to Moab three times. Flew in once and drove twice. The drive
from Seattle to Moab is about 17 hours. But considering the hassle of
flying in, the drive is worth it.


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Re: Moab 2005

gerblefranklin wrote:
> *I have firsthand experience in the exposure of moab. I got both
> dehydrated and fell in some nasty exposure spots last year. Your
> unicycle knows even better than me, too, John .
>
> I didn't think about the insurance company lawsuits, which is a good
> point. Also, isn't ll of this covered by the waiver of liability?
>
> Kris told a few of us at CMW about a portion of a trail he rode in
> moab where if you fell you had a 90% chance of falling and dying.
> Multiple bikers have already done so. I just think it's the
> responsibility of the rider, and not the organizer to tell people when
> to walk their uni's. *


My unicycle didn't fall. It just did a ghost ride and then kept on
going... going... going...

I'm not a lawyer or an insurance agent, but the waivers aren't an iron
clad defense from getting sued and being held liable. You can't avoid
all liability just by having everyone sign a waiver.


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Re: Moab 2005

gerblefranklin wrote:
> *I didn't think about the insurance company lawsuits, which is a good
> point. Also, isn't ll of this covered by the waiver of liability? *
You're a very smart kid, but apparently you're new to the whole concept
of liability and lawsuits. You can get sued for the stupidest of things,
even by somebody who just signed your waiver five minutes ago. That's
not the way things are supposed to work, but that's the reality of
today's legal scene in America.

So to host any type of athletic gathering is a risk for the organizers.
The more dangerous the event, or activities, the more risk the
organizers take on.

This is going to become more of a sticking point in the future for
hosting things like Trials competitions where there is a high danger
factor (remember Lars Lottrup's fall in Japan, for those who were
there). It's great that Tom Daniels is looking into the USA's insurance
policy. We're paying an awful lot of money for it and not using it to
its full potential.

If it is possible for the USA's insurance policy to cover Moab, that
will be a great stress reliever for Rolf. And it may be the only way to
get properly covered as the BLM has requested. The USA's policy costs
$5000 per year, the minimum that company will charge. So it's a good
idea to share. This would mean each Moab attendee would have to be a USA
member, or join. Plus if there is an isurance rider for Moab, we would
have to divide the cost of that (hopefully only a few bucks per
person).

As has been stated above, the official Moab Muni Fest campground will
probably be outside the Slickrock area. I remember Rolf was looking at a
private campground last year, that was along the road to the Amasa Back
trail. This area didn't have the same kind of slickrock, but it was
right next to the river and it didn't have all the BLM restrictions on
it.

Being able to have competitions this year might hinge on the ability to
get insurance, but it still many be impossible to do in the actual
Slickrock area. Maybe somewhere off the beaten path, or not on BLM
lands, which may be unlikely.

As an event organizer, I know how much harder it is to run a weekend
with competition events. Much as I love them, I can't blame Rolf for
leaving them out if he must.

Travel info:
Yes, if you don't get lost and traffic/weather are on your side, you can
get from SLC to Moab in about 4.5 hours. Safe best is to allow a good 5,
especially on your way back so you're not late for flights. There are
tons of motels in town, but book ahead. You might consider
www.moabutahlodging.com, the company I've used the last two years. This
year my group will be staying at the Cedar Breaks Condos.


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Re: Moab 2005

How many activities do you anticipate happening on sunday, april 3rd? My
school starts on that monday, and I was wondering how much I'd be
missing if I were to leave Moab that morning early to head to the
airport in Salt Lake City.

Thanks,

-grant


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Re: Moab 2005

"gerblefranklin" <gerblefranklin@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com> writes:

Note: this is NOT LEGAL ADIVCE! I'm not a lawyer. Find one if you
need a waiver.

> Thanks John. I still surprise myself by how idealized my image of the
> American legal system is.

Don't get cynical too early. While John is right that liability
waivers can't stop anyone from suing, they are often enforceable, and
such suits shouldn't get past a motion for summary dismissal (or
something like that, I'm not a lawyer).

There are two important factors in determining whether a waiver is
enforceable: How well it is written and executed, and where it is
enforced. Waivers have to be very specific: who (don't forget heirs,
assigns, and anyone else who might have a claim), what (specificially
itemize dangers and consequences), where, when, and why (natural
hazards, human error including negligence, etc.). Even then, the
jurisdiction makes a big difference on enforceability. Since the
state gets lots of recreation oriented tourism, there is a good chance
liability waivers are generally upheld in Utah courts.

One notable exception is a 2002 Colorado ruling. Even though waivers
usually hold up in Colorado, the Supreme Court found that the parents
of a minor injured through negligence could sue, even though they
signed a waiver.

I have done a lot of work with the Access Fund, a climber's advocacy
group. We often used waivers and got positive feedback about them
from lawyers in several states. Personally, I have used and trusted
waivers (when, for example, teaching climbing or managing a volunteer
trail building crew).

Ken

Re: Moab 2005

Thanks Ken, good advice! Of course minors are generally a bigger worry
than adults, especially when those minors come to the event without
parents. And especially when those minors are some of the most daring
riders! Something we have to keep in mind as organizers.

As to questions of what rides/activities are likely, the last two years,
the Sunday ride was figured out on-the-fly. That is, based on what
riders discussed and generally agreed to on Friday and Saturday.
Sunday's details were announced at Saturday's dinner.

I imagine Saturday will remain the Slickrock day, and contain any
competition events that awards can be given out for. This leaves Sunday
for a group ride somewhere else (Friday has generally been hanging out
at the campsite and practice loop).

So if you have to leave Sunday, you will miss a group ride, probably
somewhere scenic. But you probably will not miss the famous Slickrock
Trail. Depending on your schedule requirements, you can shoot for a late
flight out of SLC, and possibly do some riding Sunday before the drive
back up. But don't forget to leave time for unicycle disassembly,
packing, and possible traffic or other problems getting you to the
airport.


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Re: Moab 2005

John, I know you probably don't know this, but about when would the
sunday ride be? I think I have to leave sunday afternoon


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Re: Moab 2005

I have to leave Sunday 10am. I wonder if there will be time for a ride
before leaving?

-grant


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Re: Moab 2005

It's not a super-structured thing. It all depends on the ebb of the
tide, phase of the moon, direction of the wind, temperature of the
hottub...

The Sunday ride can be any trail at any time with anyone who wants to
go. No rules. Last year, everyone just happened to want to go on the
trail that the big names rode. Something that wasn't really decided
until late Saturday or maybe Sunday morning. I expect the same to
happen this year.


--
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have been only a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than
ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before
me." (Isaac Newton)
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Re: Moab 2005

If I make it I'll have to come back Sunday too. We'll need to fire up
the ride/roommate thread soon.


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Re: Moab 2005

hey, any other girl unicyclists on here going to moab?
what is the slickrock ride like on sat.? I've never been to moab
before, but am looking forward to it!
lindsey


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Re: Moab 2005

The Slickrock ride is one of the most distinctive and fun rides on the
planet. The surface is almost all bumpy rock, which requires quite a
bit of concentration and effort to ride. The "trail" is just a bunch of
white dots painted on the rock; there are opportunities all along the
trail to make the ride easier or more challenging, as there are dozens
of rideable lines.
There are a few places where the trail is tight, but there's not a whole
lot of exposure.

There is not a whole lot of elevation gain or loss, but the ride is
almost all up and down. Most people walk most of the uphills; the
downhills are usually steep, but short enough that you can try them
without worrying about getting killed.

The entire trail is 12 miles, and it's pretty grueling; a typical rider
will take 6-7 hours to complete the ride.

The other characteristic worth noting is that every time you stop and
look up, you'll be treated to one of the most absurdly beautiful views
you'll ever see on a ride.


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Re: Moab 2005

Lindsey, check out the pictures from previous weekends to get a visual
idea:
http://unicycling.smugmug.com/gallery/112380
http://unicycling.smugmug.com/gallery/112983
http://tinyurl.com/wm5y
There are many others but you'll get the idea.

It's a great educational experience because it forces you to concentrate
more than riding on other surfaces. Just as riding on grass makes you
work hard due to the extra friction, and not knowing where the bumps
are, slickrock makes you pay attention every inch of the way, while
being oxygen deprived from the altitude (unless you live at 4000+
feet).

The scenery and comeraderie are the best. Having a group from Denmark
should only make it more fun this time!

Sunday rides:
As Ed pointed out, we usually figure things out on-the-fly. Some people
have to leave early, which usually means finding a shorter ride,
depending how early. Since there will probably be many people with
similar restrictions, it should be possible to set up a shorter,
possibly earlier ride.

For a 10:00 departure, I like Tom's advice of going to Delicate Arch.
Allow at least an hour to get there. Though the park entrance is just a
few miles up the road from downtown Moab, there's a lot of miles in the
park to drive, plus a bit of a hike. An hour may not even be enough; I
haven't been there. By not riding on Sunday you can kill yourself even
more on Fri. and Sat., and pack your uni Saturday night so no worries on
Sunday morning.


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