>Subject: Re: What Jan said you bunch of grasping at straws Baloney's.-=-most
>most most most most most most most most
>From: "rb" [email protected]
>Date: 7/1/2003 2:16 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>
>"Mark Probert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> rb wrote:
>>
>> Jan said:
>> >>>>>>>"Most of the debunkers are either atheists or Jews."Quite the
>> >
>> > smartass
>> >
>> >>>>>>>aren't you?--rb
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Rubber, do you see something inherently bigoted in her comment,
>> >>>>>>regardless of whether it is most or all?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>It may just be the truth. Why don't somebody do a poll here to see
>whom
>> >>>>>are jews, atheist, etc. That may show better whether she's right or
>> >>>
>> >>>not.--rb
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>IOW, you do not see the inherent bigotry of bringing someone's relgion
>> >>>>into this disucssion as bigotry. That says a lot about you.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>No!--rb
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Let me help you....
>> >>
>> >>What relevance would a person's religion have to do with their views on
>> >>Alt Med?
>>
>> That got nothing to do with what Jan said.--rb
>>
>> Yes, she did say it. Stating that 'Most of the debunkers here are either
>> athesits or Jews" is definitely indicating that their religion has
>> something to do with their views on AltMed. There would be no rational
>> reason for her to make such a statement if she did not equate religion
>> with their views.
>>
>> Now, I hope you fully understand the concept of bigotry, and can see
>> just how bigoted the statment is.
>
> That's you're opinion, not mine.--rb
Bigoted is a new fad word here along with racist and fascists, Nazi, etc.
That's because I post questions they just can't answer as below.
From: Jan (
[email protected])
Subject: Re: Cancer cures, Orwell and Earl
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2003-06-27 18:26:54 PST
Sorry no bigoted slurs whatsoever.
>
>Very bigoted indeed. Too bad you can't see that.
A judgment on your part. Never have been a bigot, never will be, in fact have
fought against it all my life.
> Just a disconnection form God and Jesus.
>> That's their choice. They *believe* they are *enlightened*.
>Apart from a few who have stated their religious believes, you don't know
>what they believe.
That's correct, my post is based on their posts of their very own words.
<snip>
> >What a group!!!
>> >>
>> >> ANYONE can plainly see Peter Moran LIED!!!!!
>> >No, he didn't "lie"
>>
>> Of course he did!!
>
>No, he expressed an opinion.
>He expressed an *opinion*.
>> Nope, won't work, he saw NO fraud, NO conspiracies, NO dishonesty and NO
>lies.
>You, on the other hand
Ooops. Another diversion.
>see consperacies, frauds and coverups everywhere you
>seem to look.
Nope, but I sure can see them when they appear.
As in:
In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading†reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations
Now, Robert, do tell us do you see any fraud, any dishonesty??
> Or, at least where it pertains to science
Another diversion.
>Or least where it pertains to science. If Peter's
>opinion's are *lies*, as you state, then *yours* are too.
Please do post any lies I have told.
>>It's impossible, by virtue
>> >of *logic* that an *opinion* is a *lie*.
>>
>> He plainly LIED to cover for *organized medicine* and NOw YOU are LYING to
>> cover for him.
>No. I am stating a simple truth. Actually, by yelling "Liar"too everyone you
>don't agree with, makes oyu a liar.
WRONG WRONG and WRONG.
This has NOT one single thing to do with any *disagreement*.
> > You may disagree with him, but he's
>> >not lying.
>> >
>> Ther ya go folks, welcome to EVIL organized medicine!!
>
>Nope, merely your delusions.
Is this a delusion Robert???
Just look at the COVERUPS, the LIES, the FRAUD.
See any??
Do point out *my* delusions. Take each point in parenthesis and tell us which
is a delusion. Step right up Robert, prove YOUR claim.
Jan
http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp
Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger’s home in
Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment was safe.
Documents
• Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
experiments.
• March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings about the gene
therapy experiment.
(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson’s team had never told him
that anyone had ever raised questions about safety
(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter Moran.)
ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED
And that was just the beginning. Federal investigators, pouring through
Penn’s records, announced at the conference that they had made a series of
startling discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered
up problems and broken basic test rules.
In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse’s got sick. And two of them
died.
(No coverup there)
The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn’t get visibly ill,
if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called “grade
3,†the experiment was supposed to be “halted†immediately.
Records show there were “grade 3†reactions in more than one
patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got
permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have
been the cause.
The second time, they stopped, called and got permission again, citing
another unusual condition.
But when it happened a third time, they didn’t stop, didn’t call.
Then, a fourth time. They didn’t stop or call then either
(No coverups there).
For their own safety, volunteers weren’t supposed to have a blood
ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher levels and
without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70.
When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but
records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
experiment, his reading was 114 — more than double the original safety limit.
(That's way cool huh Peter???)
HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES
With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to the reactions in other
volunteers, even to Jesse’s own ammonia levels, Why had Dr. Wilson’s team
allowed the experiment to continue?
(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)
At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved Dr.
Wilson’s arrangement with Genovo.
In fact, the university itself owned a piece of his company and stood to
profit, too.
(Hmmmmmmmmm).
In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
“should have been shared with the FDA sooner.â€
(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey deaths.
There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic results in
prior patients. There was no information that would allow Jesse and his family
to make any kind of informed decision.â€
(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)
CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS
He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures had
also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse reactions.
But instead of sharing the information, government rules allowed them to stamp
those reactions “confidential,†classifying them as trade secrets to
protect their research investments.
So, while the government knew about them, other researchers like Dr.
Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.
(TRust the government!!!)
“I was outraged,†says Paul. “I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
know.
(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).
In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading†reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations
REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!
Dr. Wilson filed “false and misleading†reports and “repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations
(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)
This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger’s death. At
the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson
****is still on the faculty****
(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)
****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****
****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***
but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for medical
volunteers.
******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his family
thought they could trust.*********