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Just Zis Guy

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From the BBC News website http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3132421.stm

Britain is enjoying some of the hottest temperatures of the year at the moment but high temperatures
are not just affecting this country.

The rest of Europe has also been hit by an exceptional heatwave - with temperatures hitting 40C in
several countries this week.

At least 30 people have died as a result of the hot weather and in fires that have raged across the
continent. Many people are asking if climate change is to blame. One heat wave does not prove that
the world is getting hotter, but this week's weather fits a global trend which has seen previous
records shattered with increasing regularity.

In nine out of the past 12 years, average temperatures worldwide have been higher than at any time
since records began in the 19th century and it is very likely that the 1990s were the warmest decade
for 1000 years.

For several months now, temperatures across Europe have been, on average, five degrees warmer.

Sea temperatures in the Mediterranean region are two to three degrees warmer and reached their peak
a month earlier than usual.

And here in the UK, temperatures for this last week are already around 10 degrees above average.

Dr John Turnpenny from the University of East Anglia, who helped draw up the latest forecast of how
global warming is likely to affect the UK, says there will be more changes to come.

"Certainly the evidence is very, very strong that the climate is changing and that we are likely to
see much more of the kind of weather that we've been seeing this week, in the future," he said.

"It's likely that a very hot August with spells of weather like we're seeing now, could occur
perhaps two years in every three by the last quarter of this century."

Climate change sceptics say the Earth's weather has always varied over time, and argue that natural
phenomena such as solar activity could be producing the changes observed in recent decades.

But the overwhelming consensus of the scientific world, is that the biggest single cause of global
warming is the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. This adds heat-trapping gases to the
atmosphere.

International efforts to limit these emissions are proving extremely difficult to implement.

Yet even drastic cuts would only slow down climate change; the warming trend is fixed for decades to
come by the pollution of the past.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in
>
> But the overwhelming consensus of the scientific world, is that the
biggest
> single cause of global warming is the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. This adds
> heat-trapping gases to the atmosphere.

I might believe this argument when these "experts" explain what got rid of the several miles of ice
that covered the whole of N. Europe 10 000 years ago, preferably by experts who are not intent on
keeping their doom-mongering govt funded jobs.

1976 had more consecutive days over 30 C than this spell anyway and no one had heard of global
warming then; we were all in fear of entering a new ice age in those days.

Simon
 
Simon Mason wrote:

> 1976 had more consecutive days over 30 C than this spell anyway and no one had heard of global
> warming then; we were all in fear of entering a new ice age in those days.

The Long Hot Summer Of '76 (tm) , though, was caused by Yoof, jumping up and down. I believe the
contemporary term for it was "pogoing".

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> International efforts to limit these emissions are proving extremely difficult to implement.
>
> Yet even drastic cuts would only slow down climate change; the warming
trend
> is fixed for decades to come by the pollution of the past.

So, to use the logic of the Sun reader and uk.tosspot, why change -- I'll be long dead before the
earth burns.

Wrong message -- me thinks.

T
 
Simon Mason wrote:
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>
>> But the overwhelming consensus of the scientific world, is that the biggest single cause of
>> global warming is the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. This adds heat-trapping gases
>> to the atmosphere.
>
> I might believe this argument when these "experts" explain what got rid of the several miles of
> ice that covered the whole of N. Europe 10 000 years ago, preferably by experts who are not intent
> on keeping their doom-mongering govt funded jobs.
>
> 1976 had more consecutive days over 30 C than this spell anyway and no one had heard of global
> warming then; we were all in fear of entering a new ice age in those days.
>
> Simon

We could still be heading for a far colder climate in the UK despite warming of the atmosphere.We
are on the same latitude as places like Labrador in Canada and the only thing that keeps us from
having the same type of winter temperatures is warm air arising from the Gulf Stream/North Atlantic
Drift.If these currents are switched off due to warming of ocean water then we will no longer
benefit from the warm air and our winters will become much colder.

It is thought that the formation/destruction of ice ages is connected with the amount of solar
radiation received by the earth which varies due to eccentricities in the earths orbit as described
by the theory of Milankovich cycles ( nothing to do with bikes ).

One warm summer does not global warming make,but the long term trends show the earth is
warming.Burning fossil fuels gives off carbon dioxide,carbon dioxide (among others ) is a greenhouse
gas,personally I think there is an obvious connection.One has only to look at planets like Venus
whose atmospheric carbon dioxide content is very high and so is the surface temperature.

Sam Salt

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003
 
In message <[email protected]>, Sam Salt
<[email protected]> writes
>Burning fossil fuels gives off carbon dioxide,carbon dioxide (among others ) is a greenhouse
>gas,personally I think there is an obvious connection.

Sounds a bit like Tony Blair saying that Saddam's WMDs justified invading Iraq. Show us the proof!

There may be plenty of reasons for cutting down on the production of
iA1. The connection with global warming is, as yet, unproven to me, at least.
--
Michael MacClancy

www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
 
"Sam Salt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> One warm summer does not global warming make,but the long term trends show the earth is
> warming.Burning fossil fuels gives off carbon dioxide,carbon dioxide (among others ) is a
> greenhouse gas,personally I think there is an obvious connection.One has only to look at planets
> like Venus whose atmospheric carbon dioxide content is very high and so is the surface
> temperature.

Venus is about 26 million miles closer to the sun than us, Venus has 96.4 per cent CO2 vs. our 0.04
percent and of course it has no plants to remove
it.

Global warming data can show anything you want them to.

http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

Simon
 
"Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I might believe this argument when these "experts" explain what got rid of the several miles of
> ice that covered the whole of N. Europe 10 000 years ago, preferably by experts who are not intent
> on keeping their doom-mongering govt funded jobs.

Odd, though, how the ones who suggest that global climate change is not happening all seem to be
funded by the oil industry...

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > I might believe this argument when these "experts" explain what got rid
of
> > the several miles of ice that covered the whole of N. Europe 10 000
years
> > ago, preferably by experts who are not intent on keeping their doom-mongering govt funded jobs.
>
>
> Odd, though, how the ones who suggest that global climate change is not happening all seem to be
> funded by the oil industry...

Well, it keeps my shares up :)

You're right though. Greenpeace will use data to show that the Earth is burning up and it's all
the fault of the nasty oil majors (ours is also the biggest solar energy supplier as well - which
they ignore).

Whereas Exxon, or whoever, will use data to prove the exact opposite, but hey - that's the way the
mop flops ;-)

Simon
 
Michael MacClancy <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Sam Salt
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Burning fossil fuels gives off carbon dioxide,carbon dioxide (among others ) is a greenhouse
> >gas,personally I think there is an obvious connection.
>
> Sounds a bit like Tony Blair saying that Saddam's WMDs justified invading Iraq. Show us the proof!

Do you advocate doing nothing until irrefutable 'proof' is available? (Bear in mind that
absolute 'proof' is usually impossible for statements like 'the use of fossil fuels causes
global warming' - see Karl Popper's 'Conjectures and Refutations' for a discussion about the
nature of 'truth' in science)

The tobacco industry used very similar logic, exploiting the fact that absolute scientific 'proof'
is very hard to come by when dealing with complex situations like the link between smoking and lung
cancer (which also seemed 'obvious' to most for decades).

matt.
 
m a t t wrote:
> Do you advocate doing nothing until irrefutable 'proof' is available? (Bear in mind that absolute
> 'proof' is usually impossible for statements like 'the use of fossil fuels causes global warming'

Whereas it is merely bloody difficult for statements like "1+1=2" - see Russell and Whitehead
"Principia Mathematica".

> - see Karl Popper's 'Conjectures and Refutations' for a discussion about the nature of 'truth'
> in science)

"You can't prove anything" - Wittgenstein. "Thats not falsifiable" - what Popper may have replied.

I'm with Socrates on this one.

--
Jim Price

http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
 
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:49:48 +0100, Dave Larrington wrote:

> The Long Hot Summer Of '76 (tm) , though, was caused by Yoof, jumping up and down. I believe the
> contemporary term for it was "pogoing".

Oi! I was only just past yoof in 1976 -- and I had my first new motorbike (Honda 400/4) to take
to Holland and Germany on business/holiday. No pogoing involved (not even the bedsprings
variety sadly :-(

How many people remember that it rained every day for the next month after the hot spell ended?

Mike
 
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:08:56 +0100, "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You're right though. Greenpeace will use data to show that the Earth is burning up and it's all
>the fault of the nasty oil majors (ours is also the biggest solar energy supplier as well - which
>they ignore).

OK, so if the doomsayers are wrong and we follow their advice, we reduce energy consumption (this is
known in engineering circles as "efficiency" and is not usually regarded as a bad thing except by
the vendors of the product you are using more efficiently).

If the Global Climate Coalition are wrong and we follow their advice - well, you can guess the rest.

I would rather be wrong and efficient than wrong and responsible for wiping out the human race ;-)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!
 
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:12:20 +0000, marc wrote:

> Mike Causer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Oi! I was only just past yoof in 1976 -- and I had my first new motorbike (Honda 400/4)
>

Yeah, but don't they look so dated now? OTOH the wail was worth it -- and only rivaled by a modern
V4 Honda. Guess what I ride today!

Actually I rode my Speed Ross today, and the motorbikes stayed in the garage 'cos it's too hot
for leathers.

Mike
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> If the Global Climate Coalition are wrong and we follow their advice - well, you can guess
> the rest.

Oh no, not another ice age! I'll get me studded tyres...

> I would rather be wrong and efficient than wrong and responsible for wiping out the human race ;-)

I'm with you on that one, but also I would rather be right and efficient than wrong and on the other
side of the Atlantic.

--
Jim Price

http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
 
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:49:48 +0100, "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Simon Mason wrote:
>
>> 1976 had more consecutive days over 30 C than this spell anyway and no one had heard of global
>> warming then; we were all in fear of entering a new ice age in those days.
>
>The Long Hot Summer Of '76 (tm) , though, was caused by Yoof, jumping up and down. I believe the
>contemporary term for it was "pogoing".

I'm sorry but it is well known that the sole cause of the long hot summer of '76 was my having to
take A Levels with 200 other people in a gymnasium with no windows.

Anyway Pogoing was for the Tasteless Masses. The true cognescenti were listening to the Floyd
and Led Zep.

David (If you can remember the Seventies then retirement is not too far off....)
 
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:15:17 +0000 (UTC), "Sam Salt"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>We could still be heading for a far colder climate in the UK despite warming of the atmosphere.We
>are on the same latitude as places like Labrador in Canada and the only thing that keeps us from
>having the same type of winter temperatures is warm air arising from the Gulf Stream/North Atlantic
>Drift.If these currents are switched off due to warming of ocean water then we will no longer
>benefit from the warm air and our winters will become much colder.
>
I've heard of this, Sam, and can see how the Gulf Stream could be switched off. How would the
cycle be switched on again? I undertand that the current has been on and off previously in the
Earth's history.

James

--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Larrau.jpg
 
"Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Sam Salt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > One warm summer does not global warming make,but the long term trends
show
> > the earth is warming.Burning fossil fuels gives off carbon
dioxide,carbon
> > dioxide (among others ) is a greenhouse gas,personally I think there is
an
> > obvious connection.One has only to look at planets like Venus whose atmospheric carbon dioxide
> > content is very high and so is the surface temperature.
>
> Venus is about 26 million miles closer to the sun than us, Venus has 96.4 per cent CO2 vs. our
> 0.04 percent and of course it has no plants to remove
> it.
>
Venus' atmosphere is also much thicker than Earths.

Incidentally, the Sun is gradually getting hotter over the years (it's 30% hotter now than when it
was newly formed - it will more than double in brightness and heat output in the next 4 billion
years). Earth will undergo a runaway greenhouse effect just like Venus - but not for a billion
years or so.

The Sun is currently a little more active (with sunspots etc.) than it was only a couple of hundred
years ago - this could be linked in some way with Earth's temperature.

Ric
 
Mike Causer wrote:

> How many people remember that it rained every day for the next month after the hot spell ended?

I remember stopping off with relatives in South Wales on the way home from St Davids and giving them
ten gallons of water as a present. I also remember the temperature in my loft bedroom still being a
hundred and fifty deg. F at 3 am - eight hours after getting home and flinging open evey window in
the house.

I slept on the sofa for the next three days...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
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