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post #31 of 424
3/14/05 at 9:47am

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

On 14 Mar 2005 04:29:36 -0800 someone who may be mmaker@my-deja.com
wrote this:-

>However, as a pedestrian, I find sharing the road with cyclists very
>annoying. What's the point of 'pedestrianised' areas, if cyclists come
>blasting along the road in any direction while you're walking to the
>shops, with no regard for the rest of us?

The Road Research Laboratory has studied the subject in some detail.
Their conclusion is that cycling in "pedestrianised areas" does not
cause a great deal of danger.

Motorists in "pedestrianised areas" cause more danger I strongly
suspect.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
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post #32 of 424
3/14/05 at 10:40am

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

David Hansen wrote:

> On 14 Mar 2005 04:29:36 -0800 someone who may be mmaker@my-deja.com
> wrote this:-
>
>
>>However, as a pedestrian, I find sharing the road with cyclists very
>>annoying. What's the point of 'pedestrianised' areas, if cyclists come
>>blasting along the road in any direction while you're walking to the
>>shops, with no regard for the rest of us?
>
>
> The Road Research Laboratory has studied the subject in some detail.
> Their conclusion is that cycling in "pedestrianised areas" does not
> cause a great deal of danger.
>
> Motorists in "pedestrianised areas" cause more danger I strongly
> suspect.
#
All depends on the motorist and how they are driving, in low box at
tick-over in a land-rover the danger is much lower than when some banned
drugged/drunk idiot attempting to out run the police tried to use one as
an escape route....Yes I have driven in such areas, at less than walking
pace, here a large slow moving vehicle presents a quickly/easily
observed target easily avoided, or easily avoiding an pedestrian who's
not seen it, esp. with an escort walking in front. Thats how most
deliveries are made to the shops near the labia tower in Portsmouth...

Niel.
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post #33 of 424
3/14/05 at 12:19pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:27:13 +0000 someone who may be
%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote this:-

>And it's typical of you to excuse lawbreaking on the part
>of the rogue cycling element.

Nice try. However, I made no observation on the legality or
otherwise of the cycling they observed.

>unlike the cyclists, the motorists are permitted to use the
>street,

A "pedestrianised area" motorists are allowed to use but not
cyclists. Fascinating.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
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post #34 of 424
3/14/05 at 12:20pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:04:47 +0000 someone who may be
%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote this:-

>Just as an explanation for those unfamiliar with Hansen "nice try" is
>his admission of defeat.

Nice try, but incorrect.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
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post #35 of 424
3/14/05 at 2:12pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:58:18 +0000 someone who may be
%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote this:-

>Another admission of defeat.

Not in the least.

>No, not motorists, "the" motorists. The definite article is actually
>significant.

Does not help the discussion progress very far.

There are pedestrianised areas where some motorists are allowed to
drive for access purposes. Are cyclists not allowed to do the same
in this particular pedestrianised area? Fascinating.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
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post #36 of 424
3/14/05 at 2:44pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Steve Firth wrote:

> David Hansen <SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk> wrote:
>> <zorba@thegreek.fsnet.co.uk> wrote this:-

>>>> Cyclist don't need massive road signs. A small sign on a lampost
>>>> will usually suffice.

>>> Must disagree with that. Judging by their inability to respond to
>>> road signs at all I would say the present ones are not big enough.

>> Nice try.

> Just as an explanation for those unfamiliar with Hansen "nice try" is
> his admission of defeat.

:-)

He also seems not to understand that proceeding along a stretch of road
contrary to the explicit instruction of a police officer in uniform is an
offence in itself.
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post #37 of 424
3/14/05 at 3:37pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Christine. wrote:
> In message <d14iku$ba1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, JNugent
> <jnugent@ac30.spamfreeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>>>>>> Cyclist don't need massive road signs. A small sign on a lampost
>>>>>> will usually suffice.
>
> Just as exceeding the speed limit is breaking the law

not for cyclists it isn't.

> so is cycling on
> the pavement,

except where the council put up blue signs. Fortunately I have more
sense than to ride on the pavement, blue sign or not. It brings me great
joy when some dipstick driver without a clue about the HC shouts "get on
the pavement".

> carrying your bike around the corner against red lights

I'm fairly, fairly certain you're very wrong here.

> and carrying you bike across the road with other pedestrians.

I'm utterly certain you're wrong on this one.

> Isn't it
> funny how cyclists don't obey the law here but make a noise when car
> drivers do the same. They seem to think a different HC pertains to them.

Well, judging by your post it's certainly a different HC to the one
you've read.
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post #38 of 424
3/14/05 at 3:42pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

JohnB wrote:
> David Hansen wrote:
>
>
>>A "pedestrianised area" motorists are allowed to use but not
>>cyclists. Fascinating.
>
>
> Unfortunately one has recently been created in Andover. No vehicles at
> all - except some deliveries, disabled, council and service vehicles,
> and anyone who smiles nicely at the wardens.
> Cyclists use it still and cause _zero_ problems for pedestrians, yet it
> is the bullying tactics of motorists people are complaining about in the
> local rag :-)
>

I have some fun in Fareham from time to time. As a ped or when pushing
my bike along West Street ped area, if a car comes up behind me I refuse
to get out of the way. Seeing as it's a ped area one would expect them
to be happy to break the law at walking pace, but no, they want to go
faster; they hoot, they shout, they rev their engines.
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post #39 of 424
3/14/05 at 4:16pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Christine. wrote:

> JNugent <jnugent@ac30.spamfreeserve.co.uk> writes

>>>>>> Cyclist don't need massive road signs. A small sign on a lampost
>>>>>> will usually suffice.

No. I didn't write a word of that.

> Just as exceeding the speed limit is breaking the law so is cycling on
> the pavement, carrying your bike around the corner against red lights
> and carrying you bike across the road with other pedestrians. Isn't
> it funny how cyclists don't obey the law here but make a noise when
> car drivers do the same. They seem to think a different HC pertains
> to them.

You are making those remarks to someone else.
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post #40 of 424
3/14/05 at 4:20pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Richard wrote:

> Christine. wrote:

>> Just as exceeding the speed limit is breaking the law
>> so is cycling on the pavement,
>> carrying your bike around the corner against red lights

> Wrong. This is legal.
>
>> and carrying you bike across the road with other pedestrians.
>> Isn't it

> Wrong. Wrong. This is legal.

I side with your response there.

But can you tell us why cyclists never (or very very rarely) do that, but
can so frequently be seen simply cycling through red traffic lights or along
the footway, when there is such a lawful and simple alternative?

Not that they all do it of course - I did see a cyclist (a lady, as it
happens) stop at a red light in London a few months ago.
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post #41 of 424
3/14/05 at 4:34pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Christine. wrote:
> In message <4235d400$0$22503$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk>, Not
> Responding <nowhere@dev.null> writes
>
>> Well, judging by your post it's certainly a different HC to the one
>> you've read.
>
> I purchased mine about two months ago, has it really altered that much?

Not changed in two months, I believe. You can also find it online, at

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/

Be interested if you could give us some links supporting your previous
assertions.
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post #42 of 424
3/14/05 at 4:41pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

JohnB wrote:
> ian henden wrote:
>
>>"JohnB" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
>>news:42344DA4.F78D05A9@here.com...
>>[]
>>
>>>I had the misfortune to travel on both Stagecoach and Solent Blue Line
>>>yesterday and both were driven by utter b*st*rds.
>>
>>Really? email me privately with times, direction and routes

IIRC IH is a bus driver in this neck of the woods. Maybe he's being
helpful - but then again he's got you marked down as a cyclist so I
doubt it.
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post #43 of 424
3/14/05 at 5:19pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

JohnB wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Not that they all do it of course - I did see a cyclist (a lady, as
>> it happens) stop at a red light in London a few months ago.

> Was that one that stopped a motorist going through on red?

No.

I was the one following her, and a more upright citizen you will not find.
:-)
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post #44 of 424
3/14/05 at 8:17pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Christine. wrote:
>
> Just as exceeding the speed limit is breaking the law so is cycling on
> the pavement,

Unless the Council has designated it as for cycle use which is quite
common these days.

> carrying your bike around the corner against red lights
> and carrying you bike across the road with other pedestrians.

Nope. Crank v Brooks 1980. As soon as you are off the bike and pushing
you are a pedestrian not a cyclist so no offence committed. Now if you
were to scoot it round the corner or across the road it would be an
offence, but walking it? No.

> Isn't it
> funny how cyclists don't obey the law here but make a noise when car
> drivers do the same. They seem to think a different HC pertains to them.

Different laws do apply to cyclists e.g. the pedestrian status above,
the fact that speed limits do not apply to cyclists etc etc. Might help
if you actually learnt what the law was before you start citing it in
arguments.

Tony
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post #45 of 424
3/14/05 at 9:25pm

Re: Street furniture, footpath furniture

Christine. wrote:
> In message <d14iku$ba1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, JNugent
> <jnugent@ac30.spamfreeserve.co.uk> writes
>>>>>> Cyclist don't need massive road signs. A small sign on a lampost
>>>>>> will usually suffice.
> Just as exceeding the speed limit is breaking the law so is cycling on
> the pavement, carrying your bike around the corner against red lights
> and carrying you bike across the road with other pedestrians.

I'm pretty certain that a person pushing a bicycle is no more a vehicle than
a driver carrying car keys. Theres some case low

In his judgment in the Court of Appeal in Crank v Brooks, Waller LJ stated:
"In my judgment a person who is walking across a pedestrian crossing pushing
a bicycle, having started on the pavement on one side on her feet and not on
the bicycle, and going across pushing the bicycle with both feet on the
ground so to speak is clearly a 'foot passenger'. If for example she had
been using it as a scooter by having one foot on the pedal and pushing
herself along, she would not have been a 'foot passenger'. But the fact that
she had the bicycle in her hand and was walking does not create any
difference from a case where she is walking without a bicycle in her hand. I
regard it as unarguable the finding that she was not a foot passenger "


--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
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