Pace time on long runs?

I'm no expert, but you're teaching your body to run comfortably at a
10:30 pace....race day might be a jolt expecting it to run 2 1/2
minutes per mile at that distance faster....

That being said, conventional wisdom dictates long run pace to be 2 to
2 1/2 minutes slower than race pace, but I've always taken that to mean
*10k* race pace, not your marathon pace. Could be wrong...if you have
a relatively challenging goal in mind, then you need to pick up the
pace just a bit as well as spending some of the time on your long runs
at your goal marathon pace. Not the entire run, but certainly a 3-4
mile stretch or so in the latter stages of the run as one example.
There are many more, and of course this also presumes you are doing
some mile repeats and other workouts that will help you "dial in" the
pace you're looking for on race day.

Mike C


Janithor wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> What would be a good pace time for your long runs relative to your
> target race pace? I'm going to run a marathon on Oct. 2, I've got my
> milage up finally, and I am definitely feeling stronger on my long runs.
>
> My goal is a 3:30 marathon, which would be 8:00/miles. My pace on my
> long runs is around 10:30, but I haven't checked recently, I've just
> been focusing on milage for now.

On 2005-08-17, Mike C <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm no expert, but you're teaching your body to run comfortably at a
> 10:30 pace....

No, it is not about "teaching your body to run" at some particular pace in
during these workouts. It just doesn't work like that. You are (to
simplify a little bit) training your muscles to keep working for a long time
without getting tired.

> race day might be a jolt expecting it to run 2 1/2
> minutes per mile at that distance faster....

If you've done some speed work, your body has already learned how to run much
faster than marathon race pace.

In practice, marathon race pace is seldom a "jolt", provided that pace has
some basis in reality (e.g. 30-90 seconds/mile slower than HM race pace)

> That being said, conventional wisdom dictates long run pace to be 2 to
> 2 1/2 minutes slower than race pace, but I've always taken that to mean
> *10k* race pace, not your marathon pace.

That sounds reasonable, but 2-2.5 min slower than 10k pace will be quite a
lot slower than marathon race pace if you're well trained. I agree that 2min+
slower than marathon pace is too slow for most people -- that's more like a
recovery dawdle.

So for example, my 10k race pace is about 5:50. So my training pace should
be no faster than 7:50 based on this. But my marathon pace is more than a
minute per mile faster.

> Could be wrong...if you have
> a relatively challenging goal in mind, then you need to pick up the
> pace just a bit as well as spending some of the time on your long runs
> at your goal marathon pace.

Disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with adopting this method, but it
certainly isn't necessary. I generally avoid going too slowly on long training
runs because for example if I ran 10 minutes per mile for an 18 miler, that's
3 hours of running whereas if I pick it up to about 8:00 a mile (still very
comfortable) I can bring that down to a little over 2hrs.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

> Disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with adopting this method, but it
> certainly isn't necessary. I generally avoid going too slowly on long training
> runs because for example if I ran 10 minutes per mile for an 18 miler, that's
> 3 hours of running whereas if I pick it up to about 8:00 a mile (still very
> comfortable) I can bring that down to a little over 2hrs.

Well, yeah. So in other words, it sounds like I need to see if I can
pick up the pace a bit - are you saying about minute slower than
marathon pace?

You're right, I don't have a problem running at a faster pace. It's
sustaining a higher pace than waddling along like I normally do.

My training pace last year was 10:30, and I ran a 4 hr marathon, I think
my pace time was 9:08. So that fits with the idea of my marathon pace
being about a 1-1.5 min. faster than training pace on my long run. To
be honest, I was shocked that I finished in under 4 hours. This
marathon is a net downhill run, and it's mostly on pavement, & I do my
long runs on a trail, so that may explain part of it?

OK, next long run, I'll see if I can hold a 9:30 pace.

x-no-archive: yes

Janithor wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>> Disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with adopting this method,
>> but it certainly isn't necessary. I generally avoid going too slowly
>> on long training
>> runs because for example if I ran 10 minutes per mile for an 18 miler,
>> that's
>> 3 hours of running whereas if I pick it up to about 8:00 a mile (still
>> very
>> comfortable) I can bring that down to a little over 2hrs.
>
>
> Well, yeah. So in other words, it sounds like I need to see if I can
> pick up the pace a bit - are you saying about minute slower than
> marathon pace?
>
> You're right, I don't have a problem running at a faster pace. It's
> sustaining a higher pace than waddling along like I normally do.
>
> My training pace last year was 10:30, and I ran a 4 hr marathon, I think
> my pace time was 9:08. So that fits with the idea of my marathon pace
> being about a 1-1.5 min. faster than training pace on my long run. To
> be honest, I was shocked that I finished in under 4 hours. This
> marathon is a net downhill run, and it's mostly on pavement, & I do my
> long runs on a trail, so that may explain part of it?
>
> OK, next long run, I'll see if I can hold a 9:30 pace.


You gotta remember, I'm the old chubby guy that you go whizzing past on
your long runs. Definitely not blessed with the right genes, just
trying to do the best with what I got.

On 2005-08-18, Janithor <[email protected]> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>> Disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with adopting this method, but it
>> certainly isn't necessary. I generally avoid going too slowly on long training
>> runs because for example if I ran 10 minutes per mile for an 18 miler, that's
>> 3 hours of running whereas if I pick it up to about 8:00 a mile (still very
>> comfortable) I can bring that down to a little over 2hrs.
>
> Well, yeah. So in other words, it sounds like I need to see if I can
> pick up the pace a bit - are you saying about minute slower than
> marathon pace?

Just stick to what's comfortable, but don't dawdle. If you're reasonably well
rested for the long runs, you should settle into the right pace. I wouldn't
try to push the pace too hard. Especially in the heat.

[snip]
> OK, next long run, I'll see if I can hold a 9:30 pace.

What sort of pace do you use for your day to day training runs at the moment ?
Any idea how fast you can run a 5k or a 10k now ? What sort of interval workouts
are you doing, and what sort of times can you run for them ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

My advice

On the long runs (one time for week) at least 2 horas of pure endurance
(between120 and 140 beats per min. ).During the week ,one time 3 x 2 miles
for 70% of your capacity.It´s simple and efective.
Good luck
Jesus
"Janithor" <[email protected]> escreveu na mensagem
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> What would be a good pace time for your long runs relative to your
> target race pace? I'm going to run a marathon on Oct. 2, I've got my
> milage up finally, and I am definitely feeling stronger on my long runs.
>
> My goal is a 3:30 marathon, which would be 8:00/miles. My pace on my
> long runs is around 10:30, but I haven't checked recently, I've just
> been focusing on milage for now.
>

I'm glad this question was asked and responded to because I have been
wondering the same thing.

I am training for my first marathon, which will be run Sept 17th.

My primary goal is just to finish the run but I would like to complete it in
4:30. I am a jogger more than a runner and hold about a 10:45 pace during
the long runs. To do the 4:30 time, I think I will have to do a 10:18 pace
and I have been nervous about signing up with that pace team because I
thought that shedding almost 30 seconds per mile might be too lofty a goal
for me but it sounds like that isn't unreasonable.

I do not know my 10K pace or anything like that as I haven't run in such a
race in over 10 years so I just go by my regular runs which are paced at
about 9:45 for the 4-6 mile runs and the slower 10:45 to 11:00 per mile for
the longer runs.

Because my long runs are done near my home out in the country, between
endless rows of corn fields, I have little motivation to go fast and seldom
even pass a car. I am hoping that the pace team and the adrenaline of just
actually doing a marathon will give me the extra boost.

Shawn

"Janithor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> What would be a good pace time for your long runs relative to your target
> race pace? I'm going to run a marathon on Oct. 2, I've got my milage up
> finally, and I am definitely feeling stronger on my long runs.
>
> My goal is a 3:30 marathon, which would be 8:00/miles. My pace on my long
> runs is around 10:30, but I haven't checked recently, I've just been
> focusing on milage for now.
>