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Bracelets for Bike Lanes? - Page 4

post #46 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

"PMDavis" <pmdlandarch@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cfqu31l29ppadf91pfcq7shek31vkki2c9@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:57:41 -0600, Pat Lamb
> <pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Callistus Valerius wrote:
> >>
> >> Like I said I hate bike paths, and they are extremely dangerous,

from my
> >> experience. But bike lanes, are fantastic, but you have to have a

whole
> >> network of them through the city, otherwise they could be dangerous as

you
> >> transition from bike lane to a street without a bike lane.

> >
> >I haven't ridden in a decent bike lane, where by "decent" I mean
> >well-maintained, well-planned, of adequate width, or safe. But I
> >haven't ridden on all bike lanes. Where do you find these wonderful

lanes?
>
> All new state roads in florida are required to have a four foot wide
> bike travel lane built and striped each direction. It's the outside
> lane on all roadways and drivers know to watch for bikes there.


I do not experience conflicts with cars when I'm in a bike lane and going
slowly -- the problems only happen when I'm going relatively fast.

Motorists expect bikes to move at 5-10 mph. On an uphill grade in a bike
lane, grinding away at these speeds, I never have problems with cars. But if
I'm doing the descent on the other side of the road at 25 mph, right hooks
and cars turning left into me seem to be constant problems.

I wouldn't be surprised if the folks who support bike lanes in general are
slow or inexperienced riders; fast riders who pile on the miles probably
have had enough problems with bike lanes that they feel they are dangerous.

I expect that all these wonderful Florida motorists all so nicely aware and
alert and looking for bikes in the bike lanes are expecting pokey people at
low speeds. Zip along at above 20 mph, and I bet there would be a different
experience.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
post #47 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote

[snip]

> It seems to have work in Davis, California. Perhaps we can use some
> expertise from them?


Davis is a tiny little town that originated as the University of
California's agricultural school - it's only other claim to fame is
that it the place where the modern tasteless American tomato was
invented, so indestructible that you can ship it 3000 miles and it
will arrive no worse than when it started.

Davis is so small that it is impossible to get more than a mile and a
half from the University campus on the bikeway system.

Davis is flat, Davis is rural, Davis has a nice climate.

Cycling in Davis has been going down for years.

Americans, like the Dutch, will ride up to two miles, but not
further.

Every country has its little university town with lots of cyclists.
Why not look at Cambridge, England, which has a higher percentage of
cycling journeys than Amsterdam. On the way to Cambridge from London
you could look at Stevenage or Harlow, where they built the bike path
(yes path, not lane) system first, and then built the town round it,
thus ensuring a rather better system than you could get by trying to
retrofit an existing town. Major paths have 12' bikeway with an 8'
sidewalk on one side, so pedestrians don't (or at least, shouldn't)
walk on the bike path. Intersections with roadways are with bike
path underpasses, but the roadway is also built up, so the gradients
on the underpass are not too bad. If you don't feel like using the
bike paths you are perfectly free to use the roads, and the motorists
don't hassle you.

Stevenage is the town that taught the Dutch how to do things. It was
the model for the new era in Dutch bike path construction that began
after the Arabs cut off their oil in 1973.

But it's not Stevenage or Harlow that has all those cyclists.

Jeremy Parker
post #48 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote

snip]

> True. Either bike lanes or 5 bucks a gallon can do the trick. We

can't
> influence the latter but we can influence the former.
>

81.9 pence per litre didn't stop me filling up my car's tank on
Thursday (Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, Tesco) It doesn't seem to stop
anyone else, either, although occasionally you hear of people filling
their (diesel) car with used frying oil from fish and chip shops,
rather than taxed diesel oil.

Actually the USA does mange to influence the price of gasoline,
although the Chinese are influencing it more at the moment

Jeremy Parker
post #49 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

This is my perspective on why so few people use bicycles as
transportation in the USA:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/6.1.html

Jobst.Brandt@stanfordalumni.org
post #50 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

> Just what we need, a cross-posted h*lm*t flame war!

=v= Yeah, featuring JohnForesterZombies who will add the
usual cross-posted "bike lanes, threat or menace?" flame
war. Time for another vacation from Usenet, perhaps.
<_Jym_>

P.S.: In re: the Subject: title:

http://www.livewrong.net/
post #51 of 242

Heat is not Light (was: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?)

> = Don Quixote

> Flame wars are about the safest wars around and can only
> bring some light--and hopefully some action--into the issue.


=v= The entire history of cross-posted flamewars on Usenet
suggests otherwise. Heat is not light. And starting this
thread on rec.bicycles.* is rude; the whole point of having
separate rec.bicycles.* newsgroups is to discuss what one is
interested in. (Note Followups to one -- and only one ---
rec.bicycles.* newsgroup.)

=v= You seem to be the "Don Quixote" (a.k.a. "nolionnoproblem")
who subscribed to dozens of email lists last December and
cross-posted a "campaign for bike lanes" thread to all of them.
And in followups you quoted responses from one email list and
sent them to others. This confused and angered people. It
also prompted a few trolls to subscribe to email lists they had
not otherwise caught wind of. All in all, light was not shed.

=v= Learn from this. When people tell you nicely that they
object to off-topic cross-posted flamewars, if your response
is to dismiss them, their response will be likewise.
<_Jym_>
post #52 of 242

Re: first day of spring (was Re: Why exactly can't you go for a ride?)

=v= _Frazz_ celebrates the Vernal Equinox:

http://www.comics.com/comics/frazz/a...-20050320.html

<_Jym_>

P.S.: Vernal Equinox != "The first day of Spring" Your teevee
weatherperson's claims notwithstanding.
post #53 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

PMDavis wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2005 18:37:02 -0800, frkrygow@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Personally, I don't see how a stipe of paint makes me more noticeable.
>>The only times I've had motorists fail to notice me, a bike lane would
>>have hurt, not helped. By that I mean: I'm most visible when I'm in
>>the middle of the trafel lane, not skulking at the road edge. So I
>>move to the middle of the travel lane if there's doubt about my
>>visibility.
>>
>>But if you really want some paint to tell motorists to watch for bikes,
>>please keep the paint on "Share the Road" signs. At least they won't
>>cause trash and glass to be collected where I'm supposed to ride. They
>>won't complicate my maneuvers at intersections, where most accidents
>>happen. And they won't confuse motorists into thinking I'm not allowed
>>left of some arbitrary stripe.

>
>
>
> I doubt that you are riding in Florida, where intentionally targeting
> bike riders is considered good sport.


a) I have ridden in Florida, with no problems

b) If drivers are "intentionally targeting bike riders," does a stripe
of paint provide some magic protection? Can't they drive right across it?

IOW, you're making no sense.
post #54 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

donquijote1954 wrote:

>
> I ride my stationary bike for the time being. I'll be ready when things
> get better out there.


You'll never ride, and your excuse won't fool us.
post #55 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

"maxo" <maxo@NOSPAMhome.se> wrote in message
newsan.2005.03.22.18.01.21.211931@NOSPAMhome.se...

> wears his magic helmet on the back of his or her head like a styrofoam
> yarmulke


FWIW, I have it on good rabbinic authority that one's bicycle helmet is
kosher as a yarmulke.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
post #56 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:43:46 GMT, PMDavis <pmdlandarch@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:57:41 -0600, Pat Lamb
><pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>I haven't ridden in a decent bike lane, where by "decent" I mean
>>well-maintained, well-planned, of adequate width, or safe. But I
>>haven't ridden on all bike lanes. Where do you find these wonderful lanes?

>
>
>All new state roads in florida are required to have a four foot wide
>bike travel lane built and striped each direction. It's the outside
>lane on all roadways and drivers know to watch for bikes there.


So they're required to be BUILT. Are they designed and built safely,
so they don't evaporate when you come to a cross street, or a right
turn lane, and magically appear 50-100' later? Are they
well-maintained, or do they turn into trash collectors for broken
glass, rocks, cans, etc?

And do the drivers in Florida, who "know to watch for bikes there,"
respect cyclists and drive safely near them?

Pat

Email address works as is.
post #57 of 242

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

My thoughts exactly! The icing on the cake is that when those lanes
exist, most drivers assume you can't ride outside of them (on a bike)
and will abuse you if you do anything they don't expect. I have even
been cut off by cars while riding in a "bike lane" because local
traffic has always used it as a turning lane (in the US, for right
turns). I generally ignore bike lanes. I can't think of any place I
have seen where from a cyclist's perpective they improved the
useability of the road.

Bike lanes are kind of like getting a necktie for a birthday gift. It
is a nice thought and all, but most likely it will be a complete waste.
post #58 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Why exactly can't you go for a ride?

LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m wrote:
> >>> kids can't be let loose on those roads where you DARE to ride.
> >>> At least their parents don't feel they are safe.
> >>
> >> So the reason they *can't be let loose on those roads* is because
> >> of their parents fears; but why can't *you* go for a ride?

> >
> > I fear to leave them orphan.

>
> "Fear is the mindkiller, fear is the little death
> that kills from within." -- Frank Herbert, "Dune"



I prefer to die for a larger cause. But it's not only dying but the
stress and the humiliation of vehicles always having the lion's share.
post #59 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

Carl Sundquist wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Usually where the "beautiful people" live. (Check West Palm Beach,

for
> > example.)And they are well maintained, of course. Well perhaps

those
> > found where the poor live are lacking in maintenance, but

everything
> > else is, for that matter.
> >

>
> I can't speak for WPB, but in southern Palm Beach county, there has

been a
> nasty fight between the various gummints and the property owners

whose
> properties abut A1A. Whichever governmental entity (I think it's the

state)
> owns the road wants to put in bike lanes, but is getting a lot of
> resistence. And those people have deep pockets and a lot of

resources. It's
> easier to acquire the necessary land from the poor than the rich to

widen
> the roads.
>
> It's a shame because it's a very picturesque area to ride in. Nice

and flat
> for the Masters Fatties, too.



I know the area. Shame on them. The lions always want their lion's
share.
post #60 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Bracelets for Bike Lanes?

Frank Krygowski wrote:

> > I doubt that you are riding in Florida, where intentionally

targeting
> > bike riders is considered good sport.

>
> a) I have ridden in Florida, with no problems
>
> b) If drivers are "intentionally targeting bike riders," does a

stripe
> of paint provide some magic protection? Can't they drive right

across it?
>
> IOW, you're making no sense.



A stripe of paint provides the same protection a green light gives you
to cross an intersection in a vehicle. It gives you the weight of the
law, which is the best you can get in a society governed by laws.

Regrettably, it's the Law of the Jungle that seems to prevail out
there.
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