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Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***) - Page 2

post #16 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

jj wrote:
> If you're going to be riding downhill at 30mph at times, do you really want
> to put your life into the hands of a $150 dollar el-cheapo bike? ;-)
>
> jj
>

You are actually scared of 30 MPH?
Snicker, giggle, snort, hah.
I needed that.
The new guy is in NASCAR territory.
30 MPH should be a good laugh for him too.
I've gone down on a motorcycle at over 80 MPH with nary a scratch.
Either I am fearless or you guys are....you figure it out.

Bill Baka
post #17 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

Brian Wax wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> Many of the name brand frames including Trek, Felt, Fischer, Lemond, Raleigh
> etc. are made in Taiwan. The brand name only provides the specs. and some
> mfgturer fabricates the frame.


Brian,
You are 100% on the mark there since it is only the CEO and various
suits that have the rights to the name and the profits, and they will
just find the low bidder to make the bikes.

This is almost always the case with aluminum
> frames. It is only when you get into the high end frames that you will find
> the made in USA and Italy.
>
> You are right about the durability of these frames. With the right
> components, you could have a very reliable and sturdy ride.
>

I am glad somebody here has some sense. Avoid China at all costs, and
put on some good parts where they are needed. Both my Huffy and Mongoose
have been upgraded by me with my own tools and neither has killed me
yet. The cheap parts have been killed off and the frames are rock solid
so I have no complaints about my return on investment. Some people grab
a beer to relax, but I grab a wrench and start playing with my E-bay
parts. Some people pay others to get dirt under their fingernails, and
some take pride in what they have built on their own. Guess where I stand?
Bill Baka
post #18 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

That would not surprise me. It is the only way anybody can get decent
margins. I personally am a big Colnago fan. In the past, they would have
production runs and if you missed out that was too bad. You would have to
wait until next season. I am sure this is still the case with their steel
and carbon frames.
post #19 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:41:22 -0800, <1111354873.602011@news01.syix.com>,
bbaka <bbaka@syix.com> wrote:

>
>One good hard hit on an off road ride will make you want a suspension
>regardless of what kind.


If it survives the first good hard hit, three more good hard hits are
will render that ersatz suspension toast and quite possibly dangerous.
I'll bet there's even a disclaimer tag on the bike saying it's not to
be ridden off-road.
--
zk
post #20 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:28:18 -0800, <1111354089.434022@news01.syix.com>,
bbaka <bbaka@syix.com> wrote:

>Do you have to jump the new guy and insult his intelligence? If you
>don't know how to turn a wrench don't assume he doesn't. The whole
>concept of a tune up for a bicycle makes me laugh at you, not him. I
>true my own wheels, do you?


The first questions I asked were regarding _who_ is doing the
maintenance. The answer would not include *mart staff. Whether the OP
is doing his own maintenance is still unanswered. Whether he is
competent, confident, equipped or motivated is a crucial factor.

The initial tune-up ~ 200 miles after purchase is critical and
generally included in the purchase of a bike from a LBS. Often the
first year of servicing is part of the deal.

The first wheels I trued were on a discarded three-speed around 1970.
Since then I've built all but one pair of my own wheels.
Last July I took my bike in to have a fork leg realigned. I don't have
the proper tools. I could have used theirs at OCB! but my wrist was
still too sore and weak, after being smacked by a stunned scud jockey,
to have accomplished it. It's the first time I'd had a bike serviced
at any LBS since 1971 when I needed a frame straightened, fork,
handlebar and wheel replaced.
--
zk
post #21 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

>> Many of the name brand frames including Trek, Felt, Fischer, Lemond,
>> Raleigh
>> etc. are made in Taiwan. The brand name only provides the specs. and some
>> mfgturer fabricates the frame.

>
> Brian,
> You are 100% on the mark there since it is only the CEO and various suits
> that have the rights to the name and the profits, and they will just find
> the low bidder to make the bikes.


Categorically untrue. The "CEO and various suits" can make the decision
between higher and lower quality manufacturing, regardless of where that
manufacturing occurs. The very same plant that makes a garbage (or BSO as in
"bike shaped object") for one company might do a very nice machine for
another and I know for a fact at least one example of that.

A US-brand bike company looking for high quality out of an import factory
will actually send people to live there and work full-time in the plant.
Trek, for example, has several people doing exactly that, and I'm sure there
are other companies doing the same.

OR- you can just spec out of their (the foreign manufacturer's) catalog, and
you'll get the lowest-quality product they can get away with. They won't
add-in quality unless it's demanded. Just because they're capable of
building a quality product doesn't mean they will. And yes, they do actually
charge more for building a frame that's got tighter spec. Bikes are not as
generic as people think.

> This is almost always the case with aluminum
>> frames. It is only when you get into the high end frames that you will
>> find
>> the made in USA and Italy.


But just because it's made in the USA (or Italy) doesn't mean it's quality.
Murray & Huffy used to manufacture in the US, and I daresay their product
improved when they went overseas. The company has to make a commitment to a
quality product to build a quality product. It's not enough just to build it
in the US, or Italy, or wherever.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"bbaka" <bbaka@syix.com> wrote in message
news:1111358410.325317@news01.syix.com...
> Brian Wax wrote:
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Many of the name brand frames including Trek, Felt, Fischer, Lemond,
>> Raleigh
>> etc. are made in Taiwan. The brand name only provides the specs. and some
>> mfgturer fabricates the frame.

>
> Brian,
> You are 100% on the mark there since it is only the CEO and various suits
> that have the rights to the name and the profits, and they will just find
> the low bidder to make the bikes.
>
> This is almost always the case with aluminum
>> frames. It is only when you get into the high end frames that you will
>> find
>> the made in USA and Italy.
>>
>> You are right about the durability of these frames. With the right
>> components, you could have a very reliable and sturdy ride.
>>

> I am glad somebody here has some sense. Avoid China at all costs, and put
> on some good parts where they are needed. Both my Huffy and Mongoose have
> been upgraded by me with my own tools and neither has killed me yet. The
> cheap parts have been killed off and the frames are rock solid so I have
> no complaints about my return on investment. Some people grab a beer to
> relax, but I grab a wrench and start playing with my E-bay parts. Some
> people pay others to get dirt under their fingernails, and some take pride
> in what they have built on their own. Guess where I stand?
> Bill Baka
post #22 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

"jj" <jet@jetstream.net> wrote in message >
> The OP should also be aware that some brands have been sold off to other
> companies and the 'brandname' is no longer the high quality you'd normally
> expect.
>
>

Schwinn, Mongoose, Diamondback to name a few. Are there others? I know some
of the old Italian and French names are now made by Taiwanese or Chinese
makers---Motobecane, Masi, Torelli? But those tend to be higher end bikes,
right?
post #23 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

"bbaka" <bbaka@syix.com> wrote in message
news:1111357666.746735@news01.syix.com...
> jj wrote:
> > If you're going to be riding downhill at 30mph at times, do you really

want
> > to put your life into the hands of a $150 dollar el-cheapo bike? ;-)
> >
> > jj
> >

> You are actually scared of 30 MPH?
> Snicker, giggle, snort, hah.
> I needed that.
> The new guy is in NASCAR territory.
> 30 MPH should be a good laugh for him too.
> I've gone down on a motorcycle at over 80 MPH with nary a scratch.
> Either I am fearless or you guys are....you figure it out.
>

30 on pavement in shorts and a jersey will still hurt. I know a man who had
his stem break and ended up seriously injuring his spleen in the crash.
Ouch.
post #24 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

"Brian Wax" <waxxer@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:sFm%d.697$H06.164@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Hi Bill,
>
> Many of the name brand frames including Trek, Felt, Fischer, Lemond,

Raleigh
> etc. are made in Taiwan. The brand name only provides the specs. and some
> mfgturer fabricates the frame. This is almost always the case with

aluminum
> frames. It is only when you get into the high end frames that you will

find
> the made in USA and Italy.
>

Except for Cannondale. Hats off to them for making every frame in the US. I
also don't think there's anything wrong with a Taiwanese frame. Taiwan has
been producing quality bicycles and components for years. The really low end
stuff is being made in China now. Besides the concerns about cheap materials
and iffy workmanship, I have a problem supporting sweatshop labor. I know it
doesn't matter to a lot of consumers, but I try not to buy Chinese stuff.
Personal choice.
post #25 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

"Brian Wax" <waxxer@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:jtn%d.738$H06.98@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> That would not surprise me. It is the only way anybody can get decent
> margins. I personally am a big Colnago fan. In the past, they would have
> production runs and if you missed out that was too bad. You would have to
> wait until next season. I am sure this is still the case with their steel
> and carbon frames.


It surprises me a lot that Colnago would outsource. I thought they were
content to occupy the ultra ultra high end of the racer market. Kind of like
Ferrari.
post #26 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

"bbaka" <bbaka@syix.com> wrote in message
news:1111354873.602011@news01.syix.com...
>
> One good hard hit on an off road ride will make you want a suspension
> regardless of what kind.


So I guess I'm the only one who rode a rigid MTB? Funny how I didn't kill
myself, I guess. Suspension is nice, but it's not a total necessity. I know
people who've ridden 'cross bikes on singletrack. A good enough rider can do
with out the boingers. :-)
post #27 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

<human_fish@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111346102.581034.254070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hello all,
>
> This is my first posting to this newsgroup. Let me also mention that I
> like bikes, but I am not a pro... I ride my bike for fun (work schedule
> permitting, of course).
>
> Since it's the time that I replace my 12-year bike, I stopped at Costco
> in Dallas and checked out the mountain bikes. I liked a dual suspension
> Cephas Fever 7.7 TG mountain bike with 21-speed Shimano gears,
> thumb-shift, RST front suspension, FormulaAero spoke wheels, etc. for
> $199.99.
>
> I know that this is not the coolest and the lightest bike out there,
> but I feel that it would be sufficient to satisfy my needs.
>
> Does anybody out there know anything about this bike? I can not find
> anything related to it on the Web.
>
> Thank you all!
>
> :-)
>


greetings.

If Costco is like buying a bike at a UK supermarket/department store, I'd
say steer clear. Cheap doesn't always equate to good value in my experience.
You don't have to spend a fortune to get a decent bike fit for purpose, but
it's very easy to pick up a false bargain from the equivalent of a
supermarket or department store. Waay too heavy, poor quality components,
and sadly sometimes not even properly adjustable :-( I got caught out years
ago and I learnt my lesson the hard way.

What is your primary use of a bike? If you aren't off-road or off a decent
surface, you won't need suspension. Decent suspension is *not* cheap. If I
were in the position of buying a new bike for the first time in ages, I'd be
looking on the Net to get familiarised with what is out there. Ditto reading
cycling mags, reading the adverts by manufacturers and the small ads too.

Cheers, helen s
post #28 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

Just wanted to bump this, you summed it up well.

Ron

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:02:07 -0500, jj <jet@jetstream.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:29:37 -0600, Tom Sherman <tsherman@qconline.com>
>wrote:
>
>>human_fish@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Bill, for replying. Well, I buy brand name skis because I am
>>> a ski instructor. However, I really can not justify (to myself)
>>> spending a bundle on a bike. If I were Lance Armstrong, I would. I
>>> guess, I would not, because I would get a free bike in that case. :-)
>>>
>>> I believe that dual suspended bike for $200 is not a bad deal. If I use
>>> it lot and if I see that I need a better bike, I will buy a brand name
>>> bike... maybe even from a local shop.

>>
>>If you are planning on riding on the street or even non-technical
>>off-road, suspension is not needed.

>
>True. But what's interesting to me is how this post illustrates how
>deptstore bike lure people into a purchase.
>
>They put one (1) 'name' component on a bike - as soon as you see Shimano,
>you go 'wow, Shimano components - this is a steal'. However it's not 'full
>Shimano' components - usually it's just the rear der. The pedals and front
>chainring and bottom bracket and the brakes are 'no-name', and they're
>bottom of the line, not upgradeable. It's easy to see why the layperson
>gets fooled.
>
>They name the bike a technical name - Cephas Fever 7.7 TG mountain bike. If
>this is a formerly decent bike manufacturer (like Mongoose), all the
>better.
>
>They name the wheels or the fork suspension something that -sounds- like a
>well-known high quality component - 'FormulaAero spoke wheels'.
>
>Finally they put as much technical jargon on the 'sales card' as possible,
>much of it meaningless. You don't see the true specs, such as weight or the
>inches of play in the shocks. You essentially have a 'look-alike' to some
>$2,000 - $4000 bikes you see on TV; and, of course the layman isn't aware
>of why these bikes cost so much - they have to be light and strong and have
>superior materials in the shocks - often you're paying for R&D to get
>cutting edge stuff, who knows. Still 10 years ago you couldn't -buy- a bike
>that does what these babies do.
>
>They realize the average person isn't going to ride this bike that much so
>the lack of true functionality in the frame and they won't discover that
>the joint where the rear suspension has the most stress is weak, or that
>the chain comes off easily on some bikes (often they're not set up right).
>
>>In addition, many cross-country
>>racers still ride hardtail mountain bikes due to their lighter weight
>>and lack of "pogo" from pedaling forces. The suspension components on a
>>$200 bicycle are not going to be of high enough quality for the
>>conditions that require full suspension, so they are best avoided.
>>
>>I think even for casual riding, you would be better off getting an
>>entry-level hybrid from a competent bike shop that can assemble and
>>service it properly, and even more importantly obtain proper fit for
>>you. If you can stretch your budget to $300, you should be able to find
>>something. And $300 is less than 10% of the cost of the high end Trek
>>bicycles that Lance Armstrong races.

>
>People just don't realize you can get a good bike in an LBS, and it's
>partly the LBS's fault. I had to visit three or four LBS and scan past all
>the loaded, flashy MTBs to find a Trek 7200FX for $325 bucks with all
>Shimano components (though bottom of the line they include pedals, breaks,
>BB, and rear and front der). They don't realize it's almost twenty (20)
>pounds lighter. Yep that's no typo. Typical Dept Store Double susp. bike -
>45lbs. Trek 7200FX non-suspended - 26lbs.
>
>IMO, if LBS are going to load up on heavy mid-priced full-susp. bikes, they
>should also offer the alternative - a lighter, no-susp. bike, and explain
>the whole paradox of 'flash' vs 'utility'. They should ask the buyer 'what
>kind of riding are you really going to do?' It may be they feel there needs
>to be some kind of 'buyer's flashy hypnosis' and they don't want to break
>the spell? <g> It's bizarre, because, imo, bikes today are so much bang for
>the buck that the bike almost sells itself if the salesperson explains it
>right.
>
>Finally I think the typical layperson thinks there's some kind of
>'built-in' fun on a bike with weird pneumatic tubes and giant springs and a
>'pogo effect' as you say. There may be...But...they also have no idea that
>the 'pogo slightly dampens the forward motion component when pedalling'.
>
>I won't even go into the silly giant knobby tires (which makes you think of
>a monster truck), and the low-spoke count wheels on some (which make them
>too fragile for a true double-suspended bike's normal use) and so on. ;-)
>
>Good point on the depreciation.
>
>jj
post #29 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:08:02 -0800, bbaka <bbaka@syix.com> wrote:

>Brian Wax wrote:
>> bbaka, You are way off base here. In fact many of the trash bikes are being
>> recalled do to faulty mfging. The components on most of these bikes are
>> trash and will fail in no time. My sister ignored my pleas to save up a
>> little more. She bought one of these bikes and now is very sorry.
>>
>> Occasionally, Costco will get name brands. They had some Cannondales a while
>> back. Cannondale would not recognize the bike warranties and classified them
>> as factory failures.
>>

>Brian,
>There are some really obvious signs of bikes to stay away from, like one
>piece cranks, riveted one piece chain rings, detail stuff that does not
>take long to spot. The Chinese bikes are really crap and I will not
>argue that point. Both my Huffy and Mongoose have the good cranks and
>neither is of Chinese origin, mainland that is. Taiwan is actually
>pretty good quality. I have beat the crud out of both my 'junk' bikes
>and have only managed to wear out tires, bottom brackets, wheel bearing
>races and maintenance items. Never has either one caused me a crash due
>to a blatant failure. I would be out on one today except that it is
>raining like a good Midwestern storm today, highly unusual for California.
>
>> Human,
>>
>> Get a decent hybrid as recommended. You will be glad. If you go very the
>> wholesaler/retail trash, make sure the components are at the very minimum
>> Shimano Sora. If you do not recognize the component names, DO NOT BUY IT.
>> You will never find parts and no one will give you the time if you need
>> service. When I worked in a bike shop, we would send these people away
>> because we knew they would relate us to their bad experience.
>>
>>

>Aha, work related prejudice. You are totally correct about the Shimano
>or other brand name thing though. There has been some really bad stuff
>coming out of mainland China lately. If it says "Made in China" I walk
>away, and that goes for a lot more than just bikes. My wife was just
>given a $9.00 coffee maker as a gift (kind of a joke) and it is leaking
>after 3 days. I looked at it and what do I see? "Made in China.".


Bill! Would you read yourself now. This is almost exactly what other people were
telling the guy - "don't buy the Chinese-made bicycle shaped object for $200." A
$200 boinger bike is made in China and if it had anything to leak would be doing
so in three days.

I appreciate your contrarian instincts, but when you get down to the actual
facts of the situation a solid used bike or a lower end bike-shop-bike are the
best deals at this price point.

Ron
post #30 of 83

Re: Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:27:56 -0800, bbaka <bbaka@syix.com> wrote:

>jj wrote:
>> If you're going to be riding downhill at 30mph at times, do you really want
>> to put your life into the hands of a $150 dollar el-cheapo bike? ;-)
>>
>> jj
>>

>You are actually scared of 30 MPH?
>Snicker, giggle, snort, hah.
>I needed that.
>The new guy is in NASCAR territory.
>30 MPH should be a good laugh for him too.
>I've gone down on a motorcycle at over 80 MPH with nary a scratch.
>Either I am fearless or you guys are....you figure it out.


Non-stupid?

Ron
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