equipment wisdom needed



E

eric pearson

Guest
This question is voiced asking for your wisdom. Advice is welcome.
Please do not flame, I really am seeking your wisdom.

I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting pulse
now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30) to
overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
routine.

In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!

Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
(the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.

So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal considering
what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?

Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
make squats safe?


THANK YOU.
Your wisdom is appreciated.




regards,
eric pearson
[email protected]
 
I got a 300lb oly set at the mall for $120 (eventually got a second
set just to get more of the small weights ;). I mail ordered a cage
and bench, and some accessories, from http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/
Total cost was around $700.

IMHO a cage is important if you work out alone - I got mine for the
safety aspect, although the wide range of uses comes in handy too.
 
"eric pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
> (the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
> I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
> including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
> by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
> Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>
> So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
> look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal considering
> what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
> right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?
>
> Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
> make squats safe?

First, skip the Smith Machine. At the least, it removes the need for
the stabilizing muscles to do anything (the bar is on a track - it can't
fall forwards, backwards, or to the side). This will reduce the value
of doing an exercise like a squat.

At the worst, in addition to the above, it forces your body to contort
to accommodate the path that the bar is restricted to instead of the path
that is natural for your body (it is highly unlikely the bar follows the
same path when you do a free weight squat as when you use a Smith
Machine.)

You might want to check the places that sell used weight equipment
near by - you may be able to get a squat rack or power cage there.
For the short term, if you can't find any other way to do it, check out
saw horses.

Art
 
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:41:01 -0500, eric pearson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This question is voiced asking for your wisdom. Advice is welcome.
>Please do not flame, I really am seeking your wisdom.
>
>I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
>I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting pulse
>now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30) to
>overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
>routine.
>
>In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
>Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
>though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
>was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
>deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
>stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
>put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
>there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>
>Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
>(the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
>I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
>including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
>by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
>Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>
>So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
>look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal considering
>what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
>right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?
>
>Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
>make squats safe?
>
>
>THANK YOU.
>Your wisdom is appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>regards,
>eric pearson
>[email protected]

Abandon the Smith Machine. It has limitations, to put it mildly.
Basically, you can only go up and down in it. Your body isn't made
that way so it forces you into unnatural postures and movements. plus
you don't use stabiliser muscles, as the machine stops you from going
to the front or back or side to side. you build up one in a set of
related muscles, not the whole lot as a group which is what you'd do
by lifting real weights. It's a bad idea.

BB
--
www.kruse.co.uk/ [email protected]
The buffalo have gone
 
"eric pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This question is voiced asking for your wisdom. Advice is welcome.
> Please do not flame, I really am seeking your wisdom.
>
> I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
> I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting pulse
> now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30) to
> overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
> routine.
>
> In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
> Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
> though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
> was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
> deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
> stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
> put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
> there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>
> Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
> (the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
> I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
> including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
> by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
> Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>
> So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
> look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal considering
> what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
> right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?
>
> Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
> make squats safe?
>
>
> THANK YOU.
> Your wisdom is appreciated.

First, congratulations on your weight loss - not everyone who needs to
do this actually does, so good for you.

Second, if you like to deadlift, deadlift. Pavel's "Power To The
People!" program is built around the deadlift and the side press, and
all you need is the weight set and a rubber mat - no rack or bench
required. Start out with the PTP book, the weight set, and the mat, and
you'll spend $250 or so. Later, add a power rack and a bench if you
want to add squats or bench presses to your routine.

Link to the PTP book: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm

You do not _need_ to squat, particularly if you're trying to get smaller
and not bigger, neither do you _need_ to bench press unless you think
nice chests belong on men, so just do what you enjoy and revisit the
squat-or-not and other questions in six months or a year.

Good luck to you.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 
Steve Freides wrote:

> "eric pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>This question is voiced asking for your wisdom. Advice is welcome.
>>Please do not flame, I really am seeking your wisdom.
>>
>>I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
>>I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting pulse
>>now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30) to
>>overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
>>routine.
>>
>>In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
>>Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
>>though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
>>was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
>>deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
>>stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
>>put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
>>there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>>
>>Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
>>(the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
>>I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
>>including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
>>by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
>>Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>>
>>So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
>>look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal considering
>>what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
>>right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?
>>
>>Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
>>make squats safe?
>>
>>
>>THANK YOU.
>>Your wisdom is appreciated.
>
>
> First, congratulations on your weight loss - not everyone who needs to
> do this actually does, so good for you.
>
> Second, if you like to deadlift, deadlift. Pavel's "Power To The
> People!" program is built around the deadlift and the side press, and
> all you need is the weight set and a rubber mat - no rack or bench
> required. Start out with the PTP book, the weight set, and the mat, and
> you'll spend $250 or so. Later, add a power rack and a bench if you
> want to add squats or bench presses to your routine.
>
> Link to the PTP book: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>
> You do not _need_ to squat, particularly if you're trying to get smaller
> and not bigger, neither do you _need_ to bench press unless you think
> nice chests belong on men, so just do what you enjoy and revisit the
> squat-or-not and other questions in six months or a year.
>
> Good luck to you.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>

And of course, neither front squats nor overhead squats REQUIRE a rack.
 
"Lascivious Mink" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> "eric pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>This question is voiced asking for your wisdom. Advice is welcome.
>>>Please do not flame, I really am seeking your wisdom.
>>>
>>>I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
>>>I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting
>>>pulse
>>>now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30)
>>>to
>>>overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
>>>routine.
>>>
>>>In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
>>>Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
>>>though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
>>>was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
>>>deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
>>>stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
>>>put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
>>>there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>>>
>>>Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
>>>(the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
>>>I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
>>>including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all
>>>made
>>>by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
>>>Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>>>
>>>So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
>>>look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal
>>>considering
>>>what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
>>>right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?
>>>
>>>Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
>>>make squats safe?
>>>
>>>
>>>THANK YOU.
>>>Your wisdom is appreciated.
>>
>>
>> First, congratulations on your weight loss - not everyone who needs
>> to do this actually does, so good for you.
>>
>> Second, if you like to deadlift, deadlift. Pavel's "Power To The
>> People!" program is built around the deadlift and the side press, and
>> all you need is the weight set and a rubber mat - no rack or bench
>> required. Start out with the PTP book, the weight set, and the mat,
>> and you'll spend $250 or so. Later, add a power rack and a bench if
>> you want to add squats or bench presses to your routine.
>>
>> Link to the PTP book: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>
>> You do not _need_ to squat, particularly if you're trying to get
>> smaller and not bigger, neither do you _need_ to bench press unless
>> you think nice chests belong on men, so just do what you enjoy and
>> revisit the squat-or-not and other questions in six months or a year.
>>
>> Good luck to you.
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>>
>
> And of course, neither front squats nor overhead squats REQUIRE a
> rack.

Very good point. Both are more technical than the deadlift, though, and
the OP mentioned he really liked deadlifting, so that would seem to be
the way to go here. Also I don't think I'd OHS without rubber or bumper
plates, even on rubber mats. Can't say about FS because I don't do
those. But the good old DL works fine with cheap plates and rubber
mats.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 
eric pearson wrote:

> I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
> I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting pulse
> now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30) to
> overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
> routine.

As you get into lifting regularly BMI will become a worse estimate
of leanness. Go to body fat percentage.

> In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
> Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
> though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
> was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
> deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
> stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
> put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
> there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>
> Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
> (the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
> I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
> including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
> by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
> Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.

At least get the bar, weights and bench now. There are several lifts
you can do from the floor, such as deadlifts, hack squats, cleans, etc.

Good luck and happy lifting.
 
Steve,
You tiny ballerina you...

On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:19:25 -0500, "Steve Freides"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Lascivious Mink" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>>> "eric pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>This question is voiced asking for your wisdom. Advice is welcome.
>>>>Please do not flame, I really am seeking your wisdom.
>>>>
>>>>I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
>>>>I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting
>>>>pulse
>>>>now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30)
>>>>to
>>>>overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
>>>>routine.
>>>>
>>>>In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
>>>>Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
>>>>though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
>>>>was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
>>>>deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
>>>>stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
>>>>put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
>>>>there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>>>>
>>>>Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
>>>>(the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
>>>>I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
>>>>including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all
>>>>made
>>>>by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
>>>>Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>>>>
>>>>So . . . Since I've not heard of a Smith machine before (but it does
>>>>look like has handy safety features), is this an okay deal
>>>>considering
>>>>what I really want is weights plus bench plus (I think this is the
>>>>right phrase - 'Squat/power cage'.?
>>>>
>>>>Or if I get the $290 stuff from ****'s, what affordable can I do to
>>>>make squats safe?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>THANK YOU.
>>>>Your wisdom is appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> First, congratulations on your weight loss - not everyone who needs
>>> to do this actually does, so good for you.
>>>
>>> Second, if you like to deadlift, deadlift. Pavel's "Power To The
>>> People!" program is built around the deadlift and the side press, and
>>> all you need is the weight set and a rubber mat - no rack or bench
>>> required. Start out with the PTP book, the weight set, and the mat,
>>> and you'll spend $250 or so. Later, add a power rack and a bench if
>>> you want to add squats or bench presses to your routine.
>>>
>>> Link to the PTP book: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>>
>>> You do not _need_ to squat, particularly if you're trying to get
>>> smaller and not bigger, neither do you _need_ to bench press unless
>>> you think nice chests belong on men, so just do what you enjoy and
>>> revisit the squat-or-not and other questions in six months or a year.
>>>
>>> Good luck to you.
>>>
>>> -S-
>>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And of course, neither front squats nor overhead squats REQUIRE a
>> rack.
>
>Very good point. Both are more technical than the deadlift, though, and
>the OP mentioned he really liked deadlifting, so that would seem to be
>the way to go here. Also I don't think I'd OHS without rubber or bumper
>plates, even on rubber mats. Can't say about FS because I don't do
>those. But the good old DL works fine with cheap plates and rubber
>mats.
>
>-S-
>http://www.kbnj.com
>
 
"Steve Freides" <[email protected]> wrote in news:3tajpvFqls40U1
@individual.net:

> Also I don't think I'd OHS without rubber or bumper
> plates, even on rubber mats.

Weenie.

I've never dropped an OHSQ, but I have missed snatches and cleans with a
regular weight set on rubber horse mats. It gets the wife's attention but
doesn't cause any other harm.

Hugh

--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi")
 
Jeff Finlayson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> eric pearson wrote:
>
>> I am a 57YO who was close to 'Morbidly obese' - BMI >40.
>> I've taken off a lot of weight through aerobic exercise (resting pulse
>> now 54 and dropping) and soon will progress from 'obese' (BMI >30) to
>> overweight (BMI 25-30). I would like to add weightlifting to my
>> routine.
>
> As you get into lifting regularly BMI will become a worse estimate
> of leanness. Go to body fat percentage.
>
>> In my wasted youth a long time ago, I lifted weights for exercise.
>> Deadlift was far and away my best and most favorite exercise. Even
>> though I was wimpy (girly-boy?) with 'upper body' things, my deadlift
>> was pretty good - once did (single repetition) > 2xBW. LOVED to
>> deadlift. Squats were the one I hated most since I was young and
>> stupid and had not heard of squat racks, cages, etc and thus had to
>> put the bar atop a stack of concrete blocks, load it up, and go from
>> there. If near failure, drop bar into yard and run like hell!
>>
>> Now I am older and must exercise indoors. For several reasons, Gyms
>> (the place, not the principle) are not an option. So....
>> I am trying to keep this <$500 for a start. Sam's Club has a package
>> including 300 lb Oly weight set, bench, and a 'Smith machine' all made
>> by Impex for $410. I can get wts and a really good bench from ****'s
>> Sporting Goods for $290. This has only a 'squat catch'.
>
> At least get the bar, weights and bench now. There are several lifts
> you can do from the floor, such as deadlifts, hack squats, cleans, etc.
>
> Good luck and happy lifting.
>

And seriously consider sturdy sawhorses for safety bars. I lifted with them
for years.

Hugh


--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi")
 
"Hugh Beyer" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I've never dropped an OHSQ, but I have missed snatches and cleans with a
> regular weight set on rubber horse mats. It gets the wife's attention but
> doesn't cause any other harm.
>
Gets the wife's attention, eh??

So you are saying that dropping these big weights on the horse mats are some
kinda foreplay??
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Hugh Beyer" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > I've never dropped an OHSQ, but I have missed snatches and cleans with a
> > regular weight set on rubber horse mats. It gets the wife's attention but
> > doesn't cause any other harm.
> >
> Gets the wife's attention, eh??
>
> So you are saying that dropping these big weights on the horse mats are some
> kinda foreplay??

Prolly depends on what muscle is being used to lift the weights...... ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "Hugh Beyer" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I've never dropped an OHSQ, but I have missed snatches and cleans with
>> a regular weight set on rubber horse mats. It gets the wife's attention
>> but doesn't cause any other harm.
>>
> Gets the wife's attention, eh??
>
> So you are saying that dropping these big weights on the horse mats are
> some kinda foreplay??

O yea she jus cumz an droolz ovr my big gunz... lol

Hugh


--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi")
 
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:19:25 -0500, "Steve Freides"
<[email protected]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>
>Very good point. Both are more technical than the deadlift, though, and
>the OP mentioned he really liked deadlifting, so that would seem to be
>the way to go here. Also I don't think I'd OHS without rubber or bumper
>plates, even on rubber mats. Can't say about FS because I don't do
>those. But the good old DL works fine with cheap plates and rubber
>mats.

There is nothing technical about a front squat.
 
"John Hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:19:25 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> <[email protected]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>
>>Very good point. Both are more technical than the deadlift, though,
>>and
>>the OP mentioned he really liked deadlifting, so that would seem to be
>>the way to go here. Also I don't think I'd OHS without rubber or
>>bumper
>>plates, even on rubber mats. Can't say about FS because I don't do
>>those. But the good old DL works fine with cheap plates and rubber
>>mats.
>
> There is nothing technical about a front squat.

If you take the bar from the hooks on a rack, most people still can't
support the weight in the racked position because most people need to
work up to the flexibility required. Not to mention being able to
actually clean the weight into position. Besides all of that, just
squatting, in any form, is more technical than deadlifting - learning
how to push the butt back, how to keep the knees tracking the feet
properly, finding a good stance width, not coming up on your toes at the
bottom - lot's of things to learn about when squatting properly for
someone new to lifting.

On the other hand, most people can be told to try to keep their back
flat, bend over, and pick up the bar. The deadlift is definitely less
technical than the front squat.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 
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