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Salary sacrifice

post #1 of 29
6/15/05 at 6:13am
Thread Starter 
I cant offer advice because im in the same boat but i can say that while i was in brissy recently i overheard a lady racking up a huge bill at the counter at lifecycle (over $10,000) and then she mentioned the magical 'salary sacrifice' words and i quitely swore under my breath.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Euan
My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My theory is
that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then there should be
no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles.

Has anyone had success with this sort of thing? Any advice on the best
tack to take?
--
Cheers
Euan
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post #2 of 29
6/15/05 at 6:19am

Re: Salary sacrifice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euan
My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My theory is
that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then there should be
no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles.

Has anyone had success with this sort of thing? Any advice on the best
tack to take?
--
Cheers
Euan
There is a very good reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles - they are not mentioned in the Fringe Benefits Tax Act.
You will have to ask John Howard to change the Fringe Benefits Tax Act first!
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post #3 of 29
6/15/05 at 7:46am

Re: Salary sacrifice

in the mid 90's i scored a job for the first time in the evil CBD.
T'was bit sceptical about it but the job and bucks were good so took it on.
Soon discovered how cool the city was, but part of my package was a carparking spot, as i had always worked in (advertising) in Sth Melb, richmond or StK Rd with free parking.

Months slipped by and the parking spot was never organised...
I was catching trams to begin with and then started riding after knee reco's.
Anyway's, the boss asks "What's the carpark like that Im in?"
"Dunno. you never arranged it for me!"

The carpark was worth (then) about $3500 so i had a flash of brilliance and pitched my evil plan...

"Howabout we forget the yearly carpark fee and you gimme a one-off payment of $4K so I can buy a super-commuter and all related gear and gym membership so I can shower/change/etc?"

Well, he 'bought' it!!! I got new bike (Its still my slicked up commuter with racks/panniers and lights that still burn bright).

I guess that's not FBT or 'package' related but perhaps its all in the sales pitch? both parties get what they want nd so does society. winner i say...
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post #4 of 29
6/15/05 at 8:04am

Re: Salary sacrifice

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsley
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:19:31 +1000, coppershark wrote:


>> My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars.
> There is a very good reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for
> bicycles - they are not mentioned in the Fringe Benefits Tax Act.

So my company can buy me bicycles with no problem with FBT ?!
Mmmmm... new Ti delivery bike

-kt

--
Kingsley Turner,
(mailto: kingsley@maddogsbreakfast.com.au)
http://MadDogsBreakfast.com/ABFAQ - news:aus.bicycle Frequenly Asked Questions
Unfortunately, if it _isn't_ mentioned specifically for FBT, it means it _attracts_ FBT at the highest rate. This means your salary sacrifice will be completely eaten up by FBT, leaving you no better or worse off. I tried this one out already...

Ritch
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post #5 of 29
6/15/05 at 10:16am

Re: Salary sacrifice

Euan wrote:
>>>>>>"coppershark" == coppershark <coppershark.1qnvcn@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> writes:
>
>
> coppershark> Euan Wrote:
> >> My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My
> >> theory is that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then
> >> there should be no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified
> >> for bicycles.
> >>
> >> Has anyone had success with this sort of thing? Any advice on
> >> the best tack to take? -- Cheers Euan
>
> coppershark> There is a very good reason why salary sacrifice can't
> coppershark> be justified for bicycles - they are not mentioned in
> coppershark> the Fringe Benefits Tax Act. You will have to ask John
> coppershark> Howard to change the Fringe Benefits Tax Act first!
>
> Oh bugga. Strike cunning plan to get new bike :-(

Something tells me that people have been getting computers under this
scheme, so you buy a computer(bicycle of course) and OH&S approved safe
moving device (bicycle) {:-).
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post #6 of 29
6/15/05 at 10:35am

Re: Salary sacrifice

Euan wrote:
>>>>>>"flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <flyingdutch.1qnzfh@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> writes:
>
>
> flyingdutch> "Howabout we forget the yearly carpark fee and you
> flyingdutch> gimme a one-off payment of $4K so I can buy a
> flyingdutch> super-commuter and all related gear and gym membership
> flyingdutch> so I can shower/change/etc?"
>
> flyingdutch> Well, he 'bought' it!!! I got new bike (Its still my
> flyingdutch> slicked up commuter with racks/panniers and lights that
> flyingdutch> still burn bright).
>
> Inspiring stuff. Unfortunately I'm government so doubt I'll be able to
> swing that.
>
> Very cool though :-)

Naah, it just depends as to what is on the docket, or dockets {:-)

Can you get a "two wheel trolley"?

If you get really stuck, can you swing a "business trip" to a conference
with a free bicycle?




Request: "we (local office manager) have this surplus in one of our
project budgets that we need to spend by June 30th, or we loose it back
to consolidated revenue. We want to buy another computer.

Problem: total assest freeze in government at time.

Ring my boss and say "John has some funds that he wants to use to
upgrade some of his computers, who replies "if it is his money, then he
can do it.

John makes a few orders and uses up surplus funds and everyone is happy.

A few months down the track 'ring ring' and its my boss; "you haven't
sent up those parts you upgraded.

Err, what parts?

My boss rattles off the invoice number and parts.

Oh, yes, if you add those invoices together, what do you get?

Stunned silence - "but there is an asset freze on. You are not allowed
to buy any computers"

Me: I didn't buy any computers, I repaired three computers!

The next five minutes was sent arguing about how /if it could be added
to the assets register, which ended by me asking if any of the "old
spare parts" in the storage room were on the assets register.
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post #7 of 29
6/15/05 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 

Re: Salary sacrifice

Welcome to Liar and Deshonky tax accountants

I love your work, creativity is an artform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Collins
Euan wrote:
>>>>>>"flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <flyingdutch.1qnzfh@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> writes:
>
>
> flyingdutch> "Howabout we forget the yearly carpark fee and you
> flyingdutch> gimme a one-off payment of $4K so I can buy a
> flyingdutch> super-commuter and all related gear and gym membership
> flyingdutch> so I can shower/change/etc?"
>
> flyingdutch> Well, he 'bought' it!!! I got new bike (Its still my
> flyingdutch> slicked up commuter with racks/panniers and lights that
> flyingdutch> still burn bright).
>
> Inspiring stuff. Unfortunately I'm government so doubt I'll be able to
> swing that.
>
> Very cool though :-)

Naah, it just depends as to what is on the docket, or dockets {:-)

Can you get a "two wheel trolley"?

If you get really stuck, can you swing a "business trip" to a conference
with a free bicycle?




Request: "we (local office manager) have this surplus in one of our
project budgets that we need to spend by June 30th, or we loose it back
to consolidated revenue. We want to buy another computer.

Problem: total assest freeze in government at time.

Ring my boss and say "John has some funds that he wants to use to
upgrade some of his computers, who replies "if it is his money, then he
can do it.

John makes a few orders and uses up surplus funds and everyone is happy.

A few months down the track 'ring ring' and its my boss; "you haven't
sent up those parts you upgraded.

Err, what parts?

My boss rattles off the invoice number and parts.

Oh, yes, if you add those invoices together, what do you get?

Stunned silence - "but there is an asset freze on. You are not allowed
to buy any computers"

Me: I didn't buy any computers, I repaired three computers!

The next five minutes was sent arguing about how /if it could be added
to the assets register, which ended by me asking if any of the "old
spare parts" in the storage room were on the assets register.
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post #8 of 29
6/15/05 at 6:16pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euan
My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My theory is
that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then there should be
no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles.

Has anyone had success with this sort of thing? Any advice on the best
tack to take?
--
Cheers
Euan
I guess the other option is, that if you happen to be able to get a car through salary sacrafice, talk to the car dealer, especially if you know someone, they are always keen to make a sale, im sure they would welcome the idea of somehow packaging your favoured bike into the package or organising the quote one way or another.

there are lots of options there, as long as they get the sale, that is all they care about, its all about numbers in car sales, my father being in the business for the last 40 years has done similar things.

the other option of course is to start your own business! amazing what can be used for advertising purposes.
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post #9 of 29
6/15/05 at 7:49pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

Euan wrote:
> My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My theory is
> that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then there should
> be no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles.

The Australian Tax Office.

Theo
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post #10 of 29
6/15/05 at 8:11pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

On 2005-06-15, Euan <euan_b_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My theory is
> that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then there should be
> no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles.
>
> Has anyone had success with this sort of thing? Any advice on the best
> tack to take?

It won't happen. Cars and super are listed as things that do not attract
FBT, or attract it at a discounted rate, so it's worthwhile to do it.
Bikes aren't -- so it's not. Nice try, but it won't happen.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
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post #11 of 29
6/15/05 at 8:14pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

On 2005-06-15, Terry Collins <terryc.bling@woa.com.au> wrote:
> Something tells me that people have been getting computers under this
> scheme, so you buy a computer(bicycle of course) and OH&S approved safe
> moving device (bicycle) {:-).

The rules related to salary sacrifice for computers are simple: it must
have a built in display, and be capable of operating without mains power
for a period of time. (probably at least an hour.) In other words:
laptops and PDAs only. Not desktops, unless you can find a dodgy dealer
who'll list the desktop as a "laptop" -- but then, if you're audited (or
he's audited), you could be up for penalties for lying to tho tax
office.

Feel free to try; just don't expect it to be pulled off without a hitch.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
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post #12 of 29
6/15/05 at 8:18pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

Stuart Lamble wrote:
>
> On 2005-06-15, Terry Collins <terryc.bling@woa.com.au> wrote:
> > Something tells me that people have been getting computers under this
> > scheme, so you buy a computer(bicycle of course) and OH&S approved safe
> > moving device (bicycle) {:-).
>
> The rules related to salary sacrifice for computers are simple: it must
> have a built in display, and be capable of operating without mains power
> for a period of time. (probably at least an hour.) In other words:
> laptops and PDAs only. Not desktops, unless you can find a dodgy dealer
> who'll list the desktop as a "laptop" -- but then, if you're audited (or
> he's audited), you could be up for penalties for lying to tho tax
> office.
>
> Feel free to try; just don't expect it to be pulled off without a hitch.
>

My cycle computer has a built in display and is capable of operating
without mains power for a period of time.

Tam
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post #13 of 29
6/15/05 at 8:24pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

On 2005-06-15, Tamyka Bell <t.bell@uq.edu.au> wrote:
> Stuart Lamble wrote:
>>
>> On 2005-06-15, Terry Collins <terryc.bling@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> > Something tells me that people have been getting computers under this
>> > scheme, so you buy a computer(bicycle of course) and OH&S approved safe
>> > moving device (bicycle) {:-).
>>
>> The rules related to salary sacrifice for computers are simple: it must
>> have a built in display, and be capable of operating without mains power
>> for a period of time. (probably at least an hour.) In other words:
>> laptops and PDAs only. Not desktops, unless you can find a dodgy dealer
>> who'll list the desktop as a "laptop" -- but then, if you're audited (or
>> he's audited), you could be up for penalties for lying to tho tax
>> office.
>>
>> Feel free to try; just don't expect it to be pulled off without a hitch.
>
> My cycle computer has a built in display and is capable of operating
> without mains power for a period of time.

From the ATO:

A number of benefits are exempt from FBT. Although they satisfy the
general definition of a "benefit", there is a specific provision of the
FBT legislation which states that they are exempt from FBT.

For example, expense payment, property or residual benefits arising for
the following items commonly provided in salary sacrifice arrangements
are exempt benefits:

* a notebook computer, lap computer or similar portable computer.
The exemption for portable computers will be limited to the
purchase or reimbursement of one computer per year per employee

I doubt you could class a cycle computer as a "similar portable
computer" ... but as I said, feel free to try. Your life to live, not
mine ...

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
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post #14 of 29
6/15/05 at 8:45pm

Re: Salary sacrifice

Stuart Lamble wrote:
>
> On 2005-06-15, Tamyka Bell <t.bell@uq.edu.au> wrote:
> > Stuart Lamble wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2005-06-15, Terry Collins <terryc.bling@woa.com.au> wrote:
> >> > Something tells me that people have been getting computers under this
> >> > scheme, so you buy a computer(bicycle of course) and OH&S approved safe
> >> > moving device (bicycle) {:-).
> >>
> >> The rules related to salary sacrifice for computers are simple: it must
> >> have a built in display, and be capable of operating without mains power
> >> for a period of time. (probably at least an hour.) In other words:
> >> laptops and PDAs only. Not desktops, unless you can find a dodgy dealer
> >> who'll list the desktop as a "laptop" -- but then, if you're audited (or
> >> he's audited), you could be up for penalties for lying to tho tax
> >> office.
> >>
> >> Feel free to try; just don't expect it to be pulled off without a hitch.
> >
> > My cycle computer has a built in display and is capable of operating
> > without mains power for a period of time.
>
> From the ATO:
>
> A number of benefits are exempt from FBT. Although they satisfy the
> general definition of a "benefit", there is a specific provision of the
> FBT legislation which states that they are exempt from FBT.
>
> For example, expense payment, property or residual benefits arising for
> the following items commonly provided in salary sacrifice arrangements
> are exempt benefits:
>
> * a notebook computer, lap computer or similar portable computer.
> The exemption for portable computers will be limited to the
> purchase or reimbursement of one computer per year per employee
>
> I doubt you could class a cycle computer as a "similar portable
> computer" ... but as I said, feel free to try. Your life to live, not
> mine ...

ROFLMAO

Sure thing... how about I get a job first?

Tam
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post #15 of 29
6/16/05 at 12:00am

Re: Salary sacrifice

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:52:36 +0800, DeF
<d.farrow@finger.murdoch.edu.au> wrote:

>Euan wrote:
>
>> My employer offers salary sacrifice for super and cars. My theory is
>> that if they can justify salary sacrifice for cars then there should be
>> no reason why salary sacrifice can't be justified for bicycles.
>>
>> Has anyone had success with this sort of thing? Any advice on the best
>> tack to take?
>
>Short answer: Don't like your chances.
>
>Long answer: Salary sacrifice only works in your favor because
>of our bizarre tax law. Car use for work is tax deductible on
>a per km basis - and this is how you and your employer come out
>ahead. Basically, less tax gets paid by you and your employer.
>Cars are usually used under a leasing arrangement for some fixed
>time and you must do some predetermined number of kms during that
>time (not too much, not too little). The cost of the sacrifice
>is also affected by the resale value of the car at the end of
>the leasing period. This has the bizarre effect of it being
>cheaper to get a lexus than a commodore or a smaller car -
>small/cheap cars depreciate faster.
>
>I looked into this a bit for getting a motorbike and it wasn't worth
>it. I imagine that it would be even less the case for bikes.
>
>Not sure how you claim work related cycling on your tax return.
>Any cycle couriers care to comment?

I'm not a courier, but I can claim some stuff according to my
beancounter. Obviously coaching is a no-brainer, but I can
also claim travel expenses - the bike is my main method
of transport between client sites (my day job is IT insultant).
Keep yer receipts!
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