Building a Campy Crashterium Bike

Matt · Nov 30, 2005

Hi, all:
I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me. I have
a 1990 Cannondale Crit frame in the garage that I use as my fixie. I
would like to build it up w/ Campy Ergo (that's what I have on my
Leader). Its a 126mm frame, and I have a nice set of 7s Hyperglide
racing wheels for it. I'm thinking Xenon or Mirage levers & rear
derailleur and 8 of 9 Shimano rear cassette w/ a Shiftmate. I have two
questions: any reason to get the Mirage instead of Xenon? And is this
the simplest & cheapest solution to building an Ergo Equipped 126mm
bike?

Thanks in Advance,
Matt.

Paul Kopit · Nov 30, 2005

On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I'm thinking Xenon or Mirage levers & rear
>derailleur and 8 of 9 Shimano rear cassette w/ a Shiftmate. I have two
>questions: any reason to get the Mirage instead of Xenon? And is this
>the simplest & cheapest solution to building an Ergo Equipped 126mm
>bike?

I don't think so. If you get Veloce Ergo 10 sp, you can use your
Shimano rear derailleur and shift Shimano 8 perfectly. The shifters
would have higher resale value and you don't need to buy the
Shiftmate. Later, should you choose to get a Campy rear derailleur,
you can shift Campy 10, Shimano 9 and 10.

dvt · Nov 30, 2005

Matt wrote:
> I
> would like to build it up w/ Campy Ergo (that's what I have on my
> Leader). Its a 126mm frame, and I have a nice set of 7s Hyperglide
> racing wheels for it. I'm thinking Xenon or Mirage levers & rear
> derailleur and 8 of 9 Shimano rear cassette w/ a Shiftmate. I have two
> questions: any reason to get the Mirage instead of Xenon? And is this
> the simplest & cheapest solution to building an Ergo Equipped 126mm
> bike?

I have no answer to the first question.

To the second, you can use a Campy 10 speed Ergo and Shimano rear
derailer to shift 8 or 9 Shimano-spaced cogs. Since you're already using
9-spd Shimano spacing, and you probably already have a Shimano rear
derailer, just get Campy 10 speed Ergos, rewire with the Hubbub mod, and
bob's your uncle.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 for the gory
details and a description of Hubbub cable routing.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

John Forrest Tomlinson · Nov 30, 2005

On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi, all:
>I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
>Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
>otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
>idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.

It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
purpose. Ride it.

JT

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Gooserider · Nov 30, 2005

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Hi, all:
>>I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
>>Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
>>otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
>>idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.
>
> It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
> purpose. Ride it.
>
> JT
>

Yes, if one is a sponsored racer or independently wealthy. For some of us a
nice bike is a serious investment. I fully understand the OP not wanting to
play bumper cars with his Merckx. Same reason I don't lock my Gunnar to a
bike rack when I can use my beater Ibex.

Qui si parla Campagnolo · Dec 1, 2005

Matt wrote:
> Hi, all:
> I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
> Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
> otherwise nice).

I have 2 MXLeaders, one I ride and a spare, BEST riding frame I have
ever had.
Brake bridge too low? Whaddyamean?

I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
> idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me. I have
> a 1990 Cannondale Crit frame in the garage that I use as my fixie. I
> would like to build it up w/ Campy Ergo (that's what I have on my
> Leader). Its a 126mm frame, and I have a nice set of 7s Hyperglide
> racing wheels for it. I'm thinking Xenon or Mirage levers & rear
> derailleur and 8 of 9 Shimano rear cassette w/ a Shiftmate. I have two
> questions: any reason to get the Mirage instead of Xenon? And is this
> the simplest & cheapest solution to building an Ergo Equipped 126mm
> bike?

Use Mirage 9s ERGO and rear derailleur and a loose shimano 8s cogset
with 9s spacers. You will be able to get 8 of 9 cogs onto the 7s
freehub. No shiftmate thingy needed. use a shimano 9s chain.

Mirage innards are the same as those shifters above it, spring carrier,
springs, etc. Xenon is different and if ya break a body it may be tough
to replace.

>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Matt.

Qui si parla Campagnolo · Dec 1, 2005

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi, all:
> >I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
> >Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
> >otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
> >idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.
>
> It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
> purpose. Ride it.
>

Perhaps for a lot of throwaway frames but the MXLeader is gone from
production. Kill the Cannondale..Plus the guy wants cheap, cuz as he
mentioned, Crits are crash fests and blood donor sport.
> JT
>
> ****************************
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> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

Qui si parla Campagnolo · Dec 1, 2005

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Hi, all:
> > >I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
> > >Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
> > >otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
> > >idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.
> >
> > It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
> > purpose. Ride it.
> >
>
> Perhaps for a lot of throwaway frames but the MXLeader is gone from
> production. Kill the Cannondale..Plus the guy wants cheap, cuz as he
> mentioned, Crits are crash fests and blood donor sport.
> > JT
> >
> > ****************************
> > Remove "remove" to reply
> > Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> > ****************************

I have mentioned it before and once again, If I were to race again, and
I'm NOT, I would find some well fitting steel frame and fork, put a mix
of Mirage(shifters, converted to 10s, ders), Veloce(brakes, crank,
cogset, BB) and Centaur(hubs) on it assuming I would crash and break
something. Higher end anything makes little sense. If it's broke and
it's too expensive to replace, Ya shouldn't be racing it. The bike for
all us cat 4/5s, or even 3s really make not a hoot worth of difference
in the race results.

Matt · Dec 1, 2005

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Matt wrote:
> > I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
> > Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
> > otherwise nice).
>
> I have 2 MXLeaders, one I ride and a spare, BEST riding frame I have
> ever had.
> Brake bridge too low? Whaddyamean?

Just that, the rear bridge is too low to run anything bigger than
23s--Well, some 25s might fit, but the Avocet 25s that I bought had
about 3-4mm clearance, not enough for riding on chip-and-seal roads.
The brake pads are at the top of the calipers. I figure its just part
of the joy of having a handbuilt frame.

>
> I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
> > idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me. I have
> > a 1990 Cannondale Crit frame in the garage that I use as my fixie. I
> > would like to build it up w/ Campy Ergo (that's what I have on my
> > Leader). Its a 126mm frame, and I have a nice set of 7s Hyperglide
> > racing wheels for it. I'm thinking Xenon or Mirage levers & rear
> > derailleur and 8 of 9 Shimano rear cassette w/ a Shiftmate. I have two
> > questions: any reason to get the Mirage instead of Xenon? And is this
> > the simplest & cheapest solution to building an Ergo Equipped 126mm
> > bike?
>
> Use Mirage 9s ERGO and rear derailleur and a loose shimano 8s cogset
> with 9s spacers. You will be able to get 8 of 9 cogs onto the 7s
> freehub. No shiftmate thingy needed. use a shimano 9s chain.
Thanks for the input. That's what I'm going to do.

>
> Mirage innards are the same as those shifters above it, spring carrier,
> springs, etc. Xenon is different and if ya break a body it may be tough
> to replace.

Ahhh, good to know.

Regards,
Matt.

Matt · Dec 1, 2005

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi, all:
> >I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
> >Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
> >otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
> >idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.
>
> It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
> purpose. Ride it.
>
I understand the sentiment, and on one level I agree with it. I was in
a car museum two weeks ago. The proprietor has a late 50s Lotus that he
still races, and I respect the heck out of him for it. I will be racing
the Merckx on road races and it is, and will remain my primary road
bike, crits are just too hairy. Based on what I'm hearing here, I can
build up my Cannondale (which is one of their old Crit 3.0 frames) for
about the same price as it would cost to replace the Chorus levers on
my Merckx.

Jasper Janssen · Dec 1, 2005

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:46:51 GMT, Paul Kopit
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking Xenon or Mirage levers & rear
>>derailleur and 8 of 9 Shimano rear cassette w/ a Shiftmate. I have two
>>questions: any reason to get the Mirage instead of Xenon? And is this
>>the simplest & cheapest solution to building an Ergo Equipped 126mm
>>bike?
>
>I don't think so. If you get Veloce Ergo 10 sp, you can use your
>Shimano rear derailleur and shift Shimano 8 perfectly. The shifters
>would have higher resale value and you don't need to buy the
>Shiftmate. Later, should you choose to get a Campy rear derailleur,
>you can shift Campy 10, Shimano 9 and 10.

Yes, but Shimano 8 isn't 126mm. You might be able to do 7-of-8, with an
appropriate spacer, I suppose. S8 is 4.8 mm as opposed to 5, so over 7
cogs you lose 1.2 mm and you'd need a 1 mm spacer to fill out the
cassette, leaving you with a .2 mm gap, which I suspect shouldn't be too
much of a problem.

Jasper

John Forrest Tomlinson · Dec 1, 2005

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 04:31:18 GMT, "Gooserider"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi, all:
>>>I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
>>>Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
>>>otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
>>>idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.
>>
>> It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
>> purpose. Ride it.
>>
>
>Yes, if one is a sponsored racer or independently wealthy. For some of us a
>nice bike is a serious investment.

Why buy a racing bike if you're not going to race it?
>I fully understand the OP not wanting to
>play bumper cars with his Merckx.

Racing does not equal destroy frame. The objective is not to hit other
riders. Sure it can happen, and we have to accept it. But it's a
racing bike.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson · Dec 1, 2005

On 1 Dec 2005 06:37:41 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On 30 Nov 2005 08:46:27 -0800, "Matt" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi, all:
>> >I recently bought the frame that I've been lusting after for years:
>> >Merckx MX Leader. Its very nice (rear brake bridge too low, but
>> >otherwise nice). I do race some, though, including some crits, and the
>> >idea of racing the Merckx in Cat IV/V crits worries/sickens me.
>>
>> It's a racing bike. It's made to be raced and used up. That's its
>> purpose. Ride it.
>>
>I understand the sentiment, and on one level I agree with it. I was in
>a car museum two weeks ago. The proprietor has a late 50s Lotus that he
>still races, and I respect the heck out of him for it. I will be racing
>the Merckx on road races and it is, and will remain my primary road
>bike, crits are just too hairy.

I think you need to re-examine your approach to the sport. Criteriums
are not anymore dangerous than road races -- at least in terms of
crashes that are hard to avoid.

JT

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Paul Kopit · Dec 1, 2005

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:13:27 -0500, dvt <[email protected]> wrote:

> just get Campy 10 speed Ergos, rewire with the Hubbub mod, and
>bob's your uncle.

Hubbub, doesn't work well on Shimano road rear derailleurs. Fine with
MTB rears.

dvt · Dec 2, 2005

Paul Kopit wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:13:27 -0500, dvt <[email protected]> wrote:

>>just get Campy 10 speed Ergos, rewire with the Hubbub mod, and
>>bob's your uncle.

> Hubbub, doesn't work well on Shimano road rear derailleurs. Fine with
> MTB rears.

Hmmmm... I haven't tried this extensively, but I did mess around with it
a while. I had a Shimano 8-speed shifter (same cable pull as Campy
10-speed). I used the hubbub cable mounting on my Shimano road rear
derailer. That combo seemed to shift Shimano 9-speed spacing very well
during a test ride or three. I'm now using an 8-speed cassette, so I've
done no further testing.

My rear derailer is fairly old (approx. 1998 Ultegra). Is it possible
that Shimano has changed their road derailers in a way to prevent this
mod? Or did I miss something else?

--
Dave

Jasper Janssen · Dec 2, 2005

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:02:12 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I think you need to re-examine your approach to the sport. Criteriums
>are not anymore dangerous than road races -- at least in terms of
>crashes that are hard to avoid.

Out of curiosity, do you have personal experience with that? The average
experience with crits seems to be that crashes are much more frequent and
large there.

Jasper

Paul Kopit · Dec 2, 2005

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:18:38 -0500, dvt <[email protected]> wrote:

>My rear derailer is fairly old (approx. 1998 Ultegra). Is it possible
>that Shimano has changed their road derailers in a way to prevent this
>mod? Or did I miss something else?

The repositioning of the clamp goes in at an angle. The cable going
over the "L" clamp doesn't stay in place.

John Forrest Tomlinson · Dec 2, 2005

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:43:25 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:02:12 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I think you need to re-examine your approach to the sport. Criteriums
>>are not anymore dangerous than road races -- at least in terms of
>>crashes that are hard to avoid.
>
>Out of curiosity, do you have personal experience with that? The average
>experience with crits seems to be that crashes are much more frequent and
>large there.

Lot of racing, used to do a lot of coaching on technique, including
not crashing in races.

JT

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Gooserider · Dec 4, 2005

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:43:25 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:02:12 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I think you need to re-examine your approach to the sport. Criteriums
>>>are not anymore dangerous than road races -- at least in terms of
>>>crashes that are hard to avoid.
>>
>>Out of curiosity, do you have personal experience with that? The average
>>experience with crits seems to be that crashes are much more frequent and
>>large there.
>
> Lot of racing, used to do a lot of coaching on technique, including
> not crashing in races.
>
That wasn't the question. Are crits more prone to have crashes?

John Forrest Tomlinson · Dec 4, 2005

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 20:49:07 GMT, "Gooserider"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:43:25 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:02:12 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think you need to re-examine your approach to the sport. Criteriums
>>>>are not anymore dangerous than road races -- at least in terms of
>>>>crashes that are hard to avoid.
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, do you have personal experience with that? The average
>>>experience with crits seems to be that crashes are much more frequent and
>>>large there.
>>
>> Lot of racing, used to do a lot of coaching on technique, including
>> not crashing in races.
>>
>That wasn't the question. Are crits more prone to have crashes?

The question Jasper Janssen asked was "Out of curiosity, do you have
personal experience with that?" and I gave the sources of my
experience. I think that was his quesiton.

On your question, in terms of crashes that are really hard to avoid
-- no, crits and road races are probably equal.

JT

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