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What is Quackery?

post #1 of 143
Thread Starter 
http://skepdic.com/quackery.html
"Quackery used to be a pejorative term describing medical
charlatanism. As medical charlatanism became more popular and as using
pejorative terms became politically incorrect except for the formerly
oppressed classes, quackery evolved into alternative medicine and
complementary medicine by those who practice it, and into unproven
therapies and questionable methods by those who are critical of it.
When quackery is mixed with scientific medicine, the latter is called
a mainstream modality and the result is called integrative medicine by
those who practice."

Quackery was yesterdays alternative medicine, is today's complementary
medicine, and will be tomorrow's new branch of medicine. What is
considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.

A classical example would be physical medicine or physical therapy.
Historically, physical medicine clearly developed at the turn of the
twentieth century from Osteopathy and Chiropractic; which were
originally considered forms of Quackery because they offered
alternative methods of treatment that competed with medicine.
Physical therapy developed as a response to this alternative treatment
competition to the point where conventional medicine now falsely
claims to have invented physical medicine directly from science.

Quackery is derived from the word quacksalver, which historically was
an insult used originally against heroic physicians like Paracelsus.
It was historically associated with the use of calomel / mercury in
Europe as medicine. The German form of the word is quacksalber,and is
based on the word quecksilber in German which means quicksilver or
mercury.

Who where the Quacks who originally tropically treat diseases like
syphilis with salves made from Mercury? Why it was the educated and
then politically correct professional physician, of course.
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/
Offering easy to understand lessons that will change your life.
post #2 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>> Who where the Quacks who originally topically treated diseases like
>> syphilis with salves made from Mercury? Why it was the educated and
>> then politically correct professional physician, of course.


>So? The differnce is that medicine no longer uses mercury (it is not even
>used in thermometers much any more). Chiropractors, homeopaths and
>naturopaths still practice the same way, because they don't have science to
>help them improve their treatments.


So, it is all a matter of politics after all isn't it?

Anything that medicine says is Quackery is Quackery regardless of the
time period it was said in because Medicine by definition is based on
science, just because science geek name Jeff say that it is.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Hey Jeff, you sound an awful lot like George W. Bush.

Just thought that you might want to know.

Sorry, but I will call your comments as political as it gets.

By the way, Geek ,Evidence-Based Medicine says that the practice of
medicine has not been and still is not currently based on science.
After all, if medicine was truly based on science then there would be
no need for EBM. It is there because of Quacks like you.

Just thought that you might want to know.
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/
Offering easy to understand lessons that will change your life.
post #3 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>> Quackery was yesterdays alternative medicine, is today's complementary
>> medicine, and will be tomorrow's new branch of medicine. What is
>> considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.


>No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available science does
>not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
>homeopathy.


No, what is called quackery is purely a matter of politics. If the
currently politically correct position of the establishment does
not support it, it is called quackery.

That is the definition of politics, Jeff.

When George Bush, Sr. called Sadam a friend of the U.S. he was a
friend. But, now when he calls Sadam a terrorist he now magically
transformed into a terrorist.

Just thought that you might want to know.
post #4 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>So? The differnce is that medicine no longer uses mercury ...


It is no coincidence that medicine has a double meaning. Medicine has
one primary method of treatment: Medicine.

Medicine is any substance that has the property of curing or
mitigating disease. The use of medicine is historically Quackery based
upon a myth as old as mankind that medicines possess magical curative
powers.

Ergo, medicine's primary mode of action is magic.

Just thought that you might want to know, Jeff.

Gee, Jeff ... I am confused. I thought that science considered magic
quackery and unscientific?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/
Offering easy to understand lessons that will change your life.
post #5 of 143

Re: What is Quackery?

"John 'the Man'" <DeMan@ffsilver.com> wrote in message news3hsqvkek7i0unkfbhhe8965vurl2l516a@4ax.com...
>
> >> Quackery was yesterdays alternative medicine, is today's complementary
> >> medicine, and will be tomorrow's new branch of medicine. What is
> >> considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.

>
> >No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available science does
> >not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
> >homeopathy.

>
> No, what is called quackery is purely a matter of politics. If the
> currently politically correct position of the establishment does
> not support it, it is called quackery.
>
> That is the definition of politics, Jeff.
>



Main Entry: quack·ery
Pronunciation: 'kwa-k(&-)rE
Function: noun
Date: circa 1711
: the practices or pretensions of a quack

Main Entry: 4quack
Function: noun
Etymology: short for quacksalver
Date: 1638
1 : CHARLATAN 2
2 : a pretender to medical skill

Main Entry: char·la·tan
Pronunciation: 'shär-l&-t&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian ciarlatano, alteration of cerretano, literally, inhabitant of Cerreto, from Cerreto, Italy
Date: 1618
1 : QUACK 2
2 : one making usually showy pretenses to knowledge or ability : FRAUD, FAKER

John, you may use the word "quack" in any way you like, of course, but I prefer to preserve the label for those who knowingly defraud the public by selling useless nostrums, devices and treatments with unfounded promises of cures to desperate people. A quack is a quack, whether he is a medical doctor, a naturopath, or an MLM hustler. It all has to do with behavior, not politics.

--Rich
post #6 of 143

Re: What is Quackery?

Rich Shewmaker wrote

> "John 'the Man'" <DeMan@ffsilver.com> wrote in message
> news3hsqvkek7i0unkfbhhe8965vurl2l516a@4ax.com...>
> > >> Quackery was yesterdays alternative medicine, is today's

> complementary
> > >> medicine, and will be tomorrow's new branch of medicine. What is

>
> > >> considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.

> >
> > >No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available

> science does
> > >not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
> > >homeopathy.

> >
> > No, what is called quackery is purely a matter of politics. If the
> > currently politically correct position of the establishment does
> > not support it, it is called quackery.
> >
> > That is the definition of politics, Jeff.
> > Main Entry: quack·ery

> Pronunciation: 'kwa-k(&-)rE
> Function: noun
> Date: circa 1711
> : the practices or pretensions of a quack Main Entry: 4quack
> Function: noun
> Etymology: short for quacksalver
> Date: 1638
> 1 : CHARLATAN 2
> 2 : a pretender to medical skill Main Entry: char·la·tan
> Pronunciation: 'shär-l&-t&n
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Italian ciarlatano, alteration of cerretano, literally,
> inhabitant of Cerreto, from Cerreto, Italy
> Date: 1618
> 1 : QUACK 2
> 2 : one making usually showy pretenses to knowledge or ability :
> FRAUD, FAKER John, you may use the word "quack" in any way you like,
> of course, but I prefer to preserve the label for those who knowingly
> defraud the public by selling useless nostrums, devices and treatments
> with unfounded promises of cures to desperate people. A quack is a
> quack, whether he is a medical doctor, a naturopath, or an MLM
> hustler. It all has to do with behavior, not politics. --Rich
>
> May I ADD a note here: The Allopathic industry as developed had MORE
> QUACKS than a flock of DUCKS. Daddy
> Nelson Rockerfeller was such person..he had NO degree in Medicine (
> Just a NAME) and sold crude oil as a cancer cure. ANYONE today knows
> that crude OIL would have made it worse and indeed HE LOST ALL OF HIS
> PATIENTS
> but out of IGNORANCE they accepted his quackery as KNOWLEDGE based on
> his claims. Those were indeed DANGEROUS YEARS. AND NOW the
> Rockerfellers are the richest family in the USSA not to mention the
> most powwerful. Doesn't tha make ya'll FEEEEL SO GUUUUD??? B-0b1
post #7 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Alan Turley
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Furthermore, those who perpetrate fraud on others seeking medical care
>remain frauds. This has nothing to do with the scheme's popularity.


Does that apply to medicine, too?

When a patient goes to a physician to be treated for Mono does the
physician tell the patient that he is only a Quack who can hold their
hands while nature takes its course?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha! I didn't think so!
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/
Offering easy to understand lessons that will change your life.
post #8 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Rich Shewmaker
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Main Entry: 4quack
>Function: noun
>Etymology: short for quacksalver
>Date: 1638
>1 : CHARLATAN 2
>2 : a pretender to medical skill


You can quote all the dictionary definitions that you want to.
So, do I. And, so did I. Personally, I prefer the definition that I
quoted. Ergo, your dictionary is wrong.

It only proves that physicians have been very effective in defrauding
the public over the years. The root origin of Quackery is still
the physician Quacks who peddled mercury containing salves all over
Europe. The original Quacks were, thus, physicians.

Just thought that you might want to know.
post #9 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Orac
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>> Just thought that you might want to know.


>Just thought you might want to know that you're using more logical
>fallacies than I've seen any altie use in a while.


Then you must be asleep?

"... you have my sympathies"
Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.
post #10 of 143

Re: What is Quackery?

"Orac" <orac@mac.com> wrote in message
newsrac-8C7C8B.20035009112003@host9.newsfeeds.com...
> In article <boluu4$ce6@library1.airnews.net>,
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "John 'the Man'" <DeMan@ffsilver.com> wrote in message
> > news:3v5sqvkd5v3ufvn74olld6aqp0olmtmg9g@4ax.com...

>
> > > Quackery was yesterdays alternative medicine, is today's complementary
> > > medicine, and will be tomorrow's new branch of medicine. What is
> > > considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.

> >
> > No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available science

does
> > not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
> > homeopathy.

>
> Correct. It never ceases to amuse me when these alties pull the old
> "what is quackery is all politics" whine (which they do frequently).
> With only a few exceptions, it's just not true. Quackery is unproven,
> unsafe, or demonstrably ineffective treatment being pushed as effective
> treatment.



You mean like HRT therapy to improve the mind, lengthen life, lower cancer
risks in general promote good health?
post #11 of 143

Re: What is Quackery?

"Orac" <orac@mac.com> wrote in message
newsrac-0F2794.20073609112003@host9.newsfeeds.com...
> In article <o3hsqvkek7i0unkfbhhe8965vurl2l516a@4ax.com>,
> John 'the Man' <DeMan@ffsilver.com> wrote:
>
> > Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
> > rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
> > Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
> >
> > >> Quackery was yesterdays alternative medicine, is today's

complementary
> > >> medicine, and will be tomorrow's new branch of medicine. What is
> > >> considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.

> >
> > >No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available science

does
> > >not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
> > >homeopathy.

> >
> > No, what is called quackery is purely a matter of politics. If the
> > currently politically correct position of the establishment does
> > not support it, it is called quackery.

>
> That's bull****, plain and simple. What is and is not quackery can be
> determined through well-designed clinical trials.
>


You mean like all the massive literature which supporte HRT via.
self-selected patients?

And the 100-year inability to get the medical establishment to study
prostate surgery without self-selection? No one wants to do it because of
the politics of REVENUE. Is that established quackery?
post #12 of 143

Re: What is Quackery?

"Orac" <orac@mac.com> wrote in message
newsrac-6070AB.20095609112003@host9.newsfeeds.com...
>
> Correct, although I do not necessarily reserve the label of "quack" only
> for those who knowingly push useless treatments. There is a variety of
> quack who is a true believer in his own particular useless treatment.
> They are just as dangerous (perhaps more so) than the quack who
> intentionally pushes useless treatments.
>
> --
> Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
> |
> |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?"


The history of established medicine is full of treatments pushed which
have been proven later to be harmful, useless or simply expensive.
post #13 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>> What is considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.


>No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available science does
>not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
>homeopathy.


Consumer fraud is called fraud.

Consumers have the right, in a free market economy, to decide how they
want to spend their money. It is called patient empowerment.

As my dictionary definition correctly stated, quackery is a pejorative
term. It is totally political and is directed at all forms of
competition by the AMA and other politically / economically motivated
groups. Geeks who call people Quacks look like fools.

Just thought that you might want to know.

The final determination of what is best for the patient is both the
right and responsibility of the individual patient.
--
John Gohde,
Patient Empowerment Advocate
http://home.naturalhealthperspective...powerment.html
Email: Ngs@NaturalHealthPerspective.com
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com - Pioneering De-Medicalization by
handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care and
autonomy, and resisting the categorization of life's problems as
medical.
post #14 of 143

Re: What is Quackery?

"John 'the Man'" <DeMan@ffsilver.com> wrote in message
news:h6fuqvsm9j57nt98ehboc2njor3b199uol@4ax.com...
> Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
> rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
> Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
>
> >> What is considered Quackery is purely a matter of politics.

>
> >No, what is quackery is a matter of science. If the available science

does
> >not support it, it is quackery. Like chiropractic, naturopathy and
> >homeopathy.

>
> Consumer fraud is called fraud.
>
> Consumers have the right, in a free market economy, to decide how they
> want to spend their money. It is called patient empowerment.
>
> As my dictionary definition correctly stated, quackery is a pejorative
> term. It is totally political and is directed at all forms of
> competition by the AMA and other politically / economically motivated
> groups. Geeks who call people Quacks look like fools.
>
> Just thought that you might want to know.
>
> The final determination of what is best for the patient is both the
> right and responsibility of the individual patient.
> --
> John Gohde,
> Patient Empowerment Advocate
>


Demedicalization of society is a worthy goal, but has nothing to do with
quackery, does it?
post #15 of 143
Thread Starter 

Re: What is Quackery?

Once upon a time, our fellow Orac
rambled on about "Re: What is Quackery?."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Admittedly, it may take longer than it should for
>medicine to abandon these treatments, but eventually the weight of
>evidence results in their being abandoned in favor of something else.


We all got to believe in something.

"... you have my sympathies"
Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.
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