Test Results

larrynipon said:

I recently had an LT analysis ((blood) and VO2 test done. I'm a 51 year old strong recreational cyclist. My test was a mixed bag. Good news (I think)is my VO2 measured out at 60.2. However, my LT nukmbers were VERY low...138 bpm with a 155 power. My power/weight ratio was awful at 2.15w/kg. So the question is, what do you recommend as a workout protocol to...
1 - increase my power/weight number
2 - increase my LT

Click to expand...

Ride more and harder. Repeat every week increasing volume and intensity gradually. Take a week easy now and then. Repeat. Structure the months the same way...

If those goals are important to you perhaps you should consider getting a coach - this would be a better question for the training forum unless you actually have a powermeter. You don't list your gender or what kind of athletic background you have. Some people start later in life and see a big improvement. Some people do not.

larrynipon said:

I recently had an LT analysis ((blood) and VO2 test done. I'm a 51 year old strong recreational cyclist. My test was a mixed bag. Good news (I think)is my VO2 measured out at 60.2. However, my LT nukmbers were VERY low...138 bpm with a 155 power. My power/weight ratio was awful at 2.15w/kg. So the question is, what do you recommend as a workout protocol to...
1 - increase my power/weight number
2 - increase my LT

Click to expand...

Do you know what lactate value they used to define LT? Was is 2.5 mmol/L, 4 mmol/L, or some other value?

larrynipon said:

I recently had an LT analysis ((blood) and VO2 test done. I'm a 51 year old strong recreational cyclist. My test was a mixed bag. Good news (I think)is my VO2 measured out at 60.2. However, my LT nukmbers were VERY low...138 bpm with a 155 power. My power/weight ratio was awful at 2.15w/kg. So the question is, what do you recommend as a workout protocol to...
1 - increase my power/weight number
2 - increase my LT

Click to expand...

Firstly, are you confusing LT with Functional Threshold (FT), hence your reason for thinking you're low? FT refers to your TT or 1hr power and will/should be much higher than LT. I'd be surprised if your FT is actually 155W. I'd say it'd be more like 260W. The lab usually gives you a print out of the results with the analysis on it. They may refer to FT as being AT (Anaerobic Threshold) or IAT. If not, you should be able to find the value by reading off your power Vs lactate curve.

larrynipon said:

They used 4. In answer to a response previously...I am Male, use a Powertap as well as a Computrainer. I'm 5'8", 159 lbs, a bit on the mesomorph side. Have always worked out, been cycling sice 1984, seriusly for the past 12 years.

Click to expand...

H....something seems a little bit strange about the numbers you've posted. In absolute terms, your VO2max is 60.2 x 159/2.205 x 1000 = 4.34 L/min, but your OBLA occurs at a power of only 155 W? Even if your efficiency were on the very low end of normal, the latter power would elicit a VO2 of only ~2.5 L/min, or about 55% of your VO2max. It is certainly quite possible for OBLA to be that low, but I wouldn't expect that to be true in somebody who has been training seriously on the bike for 12 y. So, before making any decisions about how to change your training based on such data, the first thing I'd want to do is make sure that they are correct.

larrynipon said:

They used 4. In answer to a response previously...I am Male, use a Powertap as well as a Computrainer. I'm 5'8", 159 lbs, a bit on the mesomorph side. Have always worked out, been cycling sice 1984, seriusly for the past 12 years.

Click to expand...

155 watts at 4mol/l? Considering your history of riding I suggest you do lots of training for your slow twitch fibers because you are producing far too much lactate for such a low power level. Training your slow fibers (and others that will not produce much lactate and will help resnthesize lactate)should enable you to do at least 155 watts before your lactate gets much above 1.5-2.0 mmo/l. I'd suggest you do as many hours as possible below the "tempo zone" for now.

You do have a pretty good VO2max, especially considering your current ability. I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the mid-60's before too long.

WarrenG said:

155 watts at 4mol/l? Considering your history of riding I suggest you do lots of training for your slow twitch fibers because you are producing far too much lactate for such a low power level. Training your slow fibers (and others that will not produce much lactate and will help resnthesize lactate)should enable you to do at least 155 watts before your lactate gets much above 1.5-2.0 mmo/l. I'd suggest you do as many hours as possible below the "tempo zone" for now.

You do have a pretty good VO2max, especially considering your current ability. I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the mid-60's before too long.

Click to expand...

One other thing. It is possible that you are one of the few people who have an LT substantially above 4mmol/l. Might be good to do a 20 minute TT or 40 minute TT to see what your HR and power are during those.

WarrenG said:

Training your slow fibers (and others that will not produce much lactate and will help resnthesize lactate)

Click to expand...

The capacity of muscle to synthesize glycogen from lactate is very low. The vast majority of lactate produced during exercise is therefore either converted back to pyruvate and oxidized, or exits the cell via the monocarboxylate transporter.

BTW, Warren, did you catch the points race Saturday night? I did...

WarrenG said:

One other thing. It is possible that you are one of the few people who have an LT substantially above 4mmol/l.

Click to expand...

What you really mean is that his maximal lactate steady state might occur at a lactate concentration of >4 mmol. No matter what criteria you use to identify it, LT (as based on blood sampling, which is really the only way to measure it) will always be less than OBLA.

acoggan said:

What you really mean is that his maximal lactate steady state might occur at a lactate concentration of >4 mmol.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is what I was thinking but didn't say as clearly as you.

larrynipon, could you post the graph of your lactate/power/HR curve? If you can't scan it you can do a little EXCEL graph with your data and post that instead.

acoggan said:

BTW, Warren, did you catch the points race Saturday night? I did...

Click to expand...

I wasn't there. :-( Would have been too much time away from things here, but I did race on Saturday. 75 guys in the 35+ race in mid-January?!

WarrenG said:

I wasn't there. :-( Would have been too much time away from things here

Click to expand...

Man, where's your dedication? It was a ~4 h round-trip drive from Chula Vista that ended at midnight and we only got to see the points race and Blatchford's 2nd and 3rd ride for the bronze, but it was still worth it.

acoggan said:

Man, where's your dedication?

Click to expand...

13 hours of driving and two days away to be a fan, instead of all I got to do here? I hardly considered it.

WarrenG said:

13 hours of driving and two days away to be a fan, instead of all I got to do here? I hardly considered it.

Click to expand...

Understood. However, just keep this exchange in mind the next time you feel the urge to claim that I haven't watched enough elite level track racing, and/or try to paint me as being out-of-touch with 'da proz'. Here I live thousands of miles away, but I go to see a World Cup that's practically in your backyard and you don't...

larrynipon said:

I recently got a Lactate Pro. I intend to run a 20 min TT on a computrainer. What would you suggest as the "sampling protocol" for that duration?
Funny enough, I was questioning the premise of using an "arbitrary" number of 4. Where'd that number come from? Have there been individuals that actually DO have a higher threshold number?

Click to expand...

Maximal lactate steady state (MLSS) is defined as the highest exercise intensity that you can sustain without significant changes in blood lactate over time. The usual quantitative criteria for such is change of <0.5 mmol/L over the last 20 min of a 30 min test, so you could try measuring lactate every 5 min during 30 min at 155 W and see what you get. Be forewarned, however: you'll probably have to do such a test a number of times (with commensurate expenditure of money (for the test strips), blood, and sweat) to really hone in on your MLSS (see more below).

OBLA (which stands for Onset of Blood Lactate Accumulation, but is really the Onset of continual Blood Lactate Accumulation) was defined as 4 mmol/L because, looking across large numbers of endurance athletes in all sports, that's the average concentration of blood lactate at MLSS. It is quite possible, however, for individuals to vary in the blood lactate concentration at which MLSS occurs, and in fact it tends to be higher than 4 mmol/L in most cyclists. The use of a seemingly arbitrary, fixed concentration therefore really isn't arbitrary, but nonetheless does have its limitations. However, the convenience of getting a good estimate of somebody's MLSS based on a single test to determine OBLA generally outweighs the disadvantages.

larrynipon said:

That's pretty astute. The fact is, my average cadence during the VO2 max test was well over 105. I was told I have a very efficient stroke, and need to develop the power generated at a lower cadence utilizing more of the slow twitch muscles.
I typically find myself between 95-105 while riding on the road. I'm not, by nature, a "big gear" pusher. However, my "off the bike" strength (weights, resistance training, etc.) is strong.
Is their a "built-in" propensity for different individuals to produce "x" amount of lactic acid differently, depending upon the relationship between their cadence, power at that cadence, duration, and heart rate?
Thanks to EVERYONE on this thread for the great responses, input, and advice!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that those cadence differences are really the issue. If your slow fibers aren't good then you'll be using lots of fast fibers to produce your power at relatively low power levels and you will tend to produce more lactate. I used to be that way much more than now. In my case, and maybe in yours too, my body tried to adapt to the generally high level of lactate by handling it fairly well. In the end though, it's pretty much impossible to get to your full potential in that way.

If you can develop your ability much better (that what you appear to have now) below the intensities that illicit 4mmol/l, and then train what appears to be your good potential above that intensity you could end up being a pretty good bike racer in many events, if you care about that. You'd also get much better at 2-3 hour rides with your buddies if that interests you more.