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convert friction shift to SIS?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell
post #2 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

Bill Crowell wrote:

> Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount which presently has Campy Super Record components...


Sure. A vintage Paramount frame and a modern drivetrain would be the
best of both worlds.

I'd go with a 9-speed system (either Campy or Shimano). Get a new rear
wheel, cassette, chain, derailleurs, and shifters.

I did this with my 1984 steel frame a few years ago. I had my frame
(dropouts) spread from 126mm to 130mm, but that's not really necessary.
Lots of folks just stick a 130mm hub in there without problem.

See:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/upgrade.html

If you want to go all out, get new dual-pivot brakes and a new
crankeset while you're at it.

Art Harris
post #3 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

maxo wrote:

> beware that new dual pivots on an old frame will require drilling as they're recessed.


By 1987, most bikes used recessed, short-reach brakes. I don't think
he'd have a problem with that.

> You'd have to beat me senseless with a Park tool to make me replace the very sexy, imho, 80s Record Crankset on a bike.


I replaced my Campy Record 42-52 cranks with Ultegra 39-53 a few years
ago. The modern cranks shift much better with all the little ramps and
pins. The only heartbreaking moment I had was when I removed the Campy
DT shift levers.

Art Harris
post #4 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

maxo wrote:

> Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes.


My '81 Motobecane Grand Record has recessed brakes! I guess it was a
little ahead of its time. My '84 Palo Alto has nutted brakes, but my
'89 Schwinn Circuit has recessed. I don't own any bikes newer than
that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.

Art Harris
post #5 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

bcrowell@excite.com wrote:
> Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
> which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
> to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
> so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell


Sure it makes sense to convert the bike if you want the newer brake
lever shifters such as Ergo. 10 speed Campagnolo uses 130mm rear hub
spacing. Your bike may or may not be spaced for a 130mm rear hub.
Measure and find out. Some believe in officially spreading the rear
triangle to fit the wider hub. Some just put it in and go. You
decide. Parts needed for the shifting conversion are 1. Ergo
shift/brake levers. 2. New rear hub or wheel with Campagnolo hub from
about 1997 to present. 3. 10 speed Campagnolo cassette. 4. 10 speed
chain. Not sure about chainrings. Your crank with wide 7 speed rings
spaced for the wider 7 speed chain may or may not work OK with the much
narrower 10 speed chain.

It makes no sense to go with 9 speed. Campagnolo makes all of its
decent groups with 10 speed now. Veloce, Centaur, Chorus, Record. All
interchangeable parts. Campagnolo has been 10 speed since the year
2000. Even that other company has been 10 speed for a year or so now.
There is no shifting or reliability difference on the road between
7-8-9-10 speed.
post #6 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

richard <rmcclarynospam@insightbb.com> wrote in news:%cj1f.219998
$084.217811@attbi_s22:

> Naw - convert it to Ergo (Hey, SOMEONE had to say it!!!)
>
> Actually, I converted a 1971 Raleigh Professional to Ergo and have not
> regretted it for a single second.
>


Same here with my '75 Peugeot PX10...
post #7 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

bcrowell@excite.com wrote:
> Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
> which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
> to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
> so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell


What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
answer?

Not hard to do it tho-shifters,a rear derailleur, probably a cold set
of the frame, a new rear hub/wheel/cogset/chain. If you use Campagnolo,
the front der will work fine.

BTW-I have friction shifters on my daily ride, a Merckx, and since I
don't race, it wiorks just fine for me on 110-12 hrs per week of
riding. Index shifting is called for for
-beginners
-racers
-mountain bikes....

For all others it certainly is in the 'nice to have' area, but not
essential.
post #8 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

"Art Harris" <n2ah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128630174.711629.17690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> maxo wrote:
>
>> Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes.

>
> My '81 Motobecane Grand Record has recessed brakes! I guess it was a
> little ahead of its time. My '84 Palo Alto has nutted brakes, but my
> '89 Schwinn Circuit has recessed. I don't own any bikes newer than
> that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.
>
> Art Harris
>


I'm just curious, do any of you riders who ride the older frames get teased?
Sometimes a little sarcasm from fellow riders. I also ride older steel
frames, a 1977 Rodriguez reynolds 531 frame and a 1984 Eisentraut. I hear
it a lot in a joking way of course, but sometimes it can wear on you. I love
the way the older steel frames feel.
-tom
post #9 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

Tom Nakashima wrote:
> "Art Harris" <n2ah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1128630174.711629.17690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > maxo wrote:
> >
> >> Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes.

> >
> > My '81 Motobecane Grand Record has recessed brakes! I guess it was a
> > little ahead of its time. My '84 Palo Alto has nutted brakes, but my
> > '89 Schwinn Circuit has recessed. I don't own any bikes newer than
> > that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.
> >
> > Art Harris
> >

>
> I'm just curious, do any of you riders who ride the older frames get teased?
> Sometimes a little sarcasm from fellow riders. I also ride older steel
> frames, a 1977 Rodriguez reynolds 531 frame and a 1984 Eisentraut. I hear
> it a lot in a joking way of course, but sometimes it can wear on you. I love
> the way the older steel frames feel.
> -tom



They stop laughing when I drop them and their plastic bikes.
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
answer?

The way that, when we crest the top of a hill, my buddy with SIS brake
lever shifters is already pedalling away in his next gear while I am
still trying to shift my downtuble levers.
post #11 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

<larrylikesthecircus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>> "Art Harris" wrote:


>> > I don't own any bikes newer than
>> > that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.


>> I'm just curious, do any of you riders who ride the older frames get
>> teased?
>> Sometimes a little sarcasm from fellow riders. I also ride older steel
>> frames, a 1977 Rodriguez reynolds 531 frame and a 1984 Eisentraut. I
>> hear
>> it a lot in a joking way of course, but sometimes it can wear on you. I
>> love
>> the way the older steel frames feel.
>> -tom


> They stop laughing when I drop them and their plastic bikes.


Yeah, that too. I'm always amused by the newbies who seem to buy a new bike
each year in search of the magical ONE that will make them a better rider.

Tom, if someone thinks his fat tube, aggressive looking bike is better than
your '84 Eisentraut, that's his loss.

Art Harris
post #12 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

bcrowell@excite.com wrote:
> What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
> answer?
>
> The way that, when we crest the top of a hill, my buddy with SIS brake
> lever shifters is already pedalling away in his next gear while I am
> still trying to shift my downtuble levers.


ERGO. You will be pedaling away from him because he is using Shimano
and can only shift to a smaller cog one at a time. But Ergo allows you
to dump the whole cassette with one push of the thumb. He will still
be clicking his little shift lever while you are riding away from him
in the proper gear.
post #13 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

"Jasper Janssen" wrote:

> Whereas I believe that it's better to got for either 7 or 9 (at least in
> Shimano). All the low-end stuff is still stuck at 7 and looks likely to
> remain there, whereas the better stuff is 9s or 10s, and 8s cassettes are
> not particularly plentiful.


I tend to agree. Nine speed stuff is still easy enough to find, and is a lot
less expensive than 10-speed. I refuse to follow this never-ending trend to
ever more gears that doesn't provide any real benefit except to the
manufacturers and dealers.

I still have my 6-speed NR group stored away, and if things get too crazy,
I'll go back to that.

Art Harris
post #14 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

In article
<1128688894.212135.218590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote:

> bcrowell@excite.com wrote:
> > Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
> > which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
> > to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
> > so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell

>
> What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
> answer?
>
> Not hard to do it tho-shifters,a rear derailleur, probably a cold set
> of the frame, a new rear hub/wheel/cogset/chain. If you use Campagnolo,
> the front der will work fine.
>
> BTW-I have friction shifters on my daily ride, a Merckx, and since I
> don't race, it wiorks just fine for me on 110-12 hrs per week of
> riding. Index shifting is called for for
> -beginners
> -racers
> -mountain bikes....
>
> For all others it certainly is in the 'nice to have' area, but not
> essential.


I am an exception to the these pronouncements, being in
none of the three classes you mention and finding indexed
down tube shifters much more useful and pleasing than
"nice to have."

--
Michael Press
post #15 of 28

Re: convert friction shift to SIS?

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:29:17 -0700, bcrowell wrote:

> What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
> answer?
>
> The way that, when we crest the top of a hill, my buddy with SIS brake
> lever shifters is already pedalling away in his next gear while I am
> still trying to shift my downtuble levers.


This is a different issue. When people refer to "SIS", we presume you
mean indexed, but downtube, shifters. What you are talking about is STI
(Shimano total integration). For that, I agree, the improvement over
downtube friction shifters is more than just "nice to have". Shifting
while climbing out of the saddle; what a novel idea.

Frankly, even though I am a cheap old fart, I am happy to pay for the
levers and all that. I do prefer Campy, but that depends on your hands.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy
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