electric bikes

> Advice much appreciated.

Get a moped.

On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:20:37 +0100, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Does anyone have experience of buying, using electric bikes.
>My wife would like one and they start around £290 (like Powacycle Milan) up to several thousand pounds.
>Advice much appreciated.

The best place to start for advice on electric bicycles is AtoB
magazine.

Website here:

http://www.atob.org.uk/

They have a buyers guide there, and the mag itself always has plenty
of solid comment and opinion on the best electric options.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

in message <[email protected]>, Pete ('[email protected]')
wrote:

> Does anyone have experience of buying, using electric bikes.
> My wife would like one and they start around £290 (like Powacycle
> Milan) up to several thousand pounds. Advice much appreciated.

I'm a bit of a bore on this, I'm afraid.

I seriously suggest she decides how much money she'd be prepared to spend
on an electric-assist bike, and then test rides a conventional (not
electric assist) bike costing the same amount of money. I'd be hugely
surprised if she did not find the conventional bike more satisfactory,
and less work. If you compare a £1,000 electric bike to a £200
conventional bike, it isn't surprising the electric bike seems quite
good. But if you compare a £1,000 electric bike to a £1,000 conventional
bike, you'll be surprised.

Something like this:
http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=60344

I've worked on and ridden electric assist bikes. They seem to me to
create far more problems than they solve.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; in faecibus sapiens rheum propagabit

On Mon, 15 May 2006 12:43:13 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Something like this:
>http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=60344
>

Wow, had no idea CD had models like that in their range. Looks quite
handsome.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

Simon Brooke wrote:

> I seriously suggest she decides how much money she'd be prepared to spend
> on an electric-assist bike, and then test rides a conventional (not
> electric assist) bike costing the same amount of money.

This is good advice because all it will cost you is some time, and
following it doesn't in any way require you to find the same thing that
Simon does.

I've ridden a few electrics at Kinetics (http://kinetics.org.uk/) out of
curiosity. Ben is in the upper end of the business, and at that level I
can certainly see a lot of good points /for a limited subset of
cyclists/. I'm not one of those, and even if I had the cash spare I
wouldn't buy one.

From what I've seen, if you do want to go down this route and can
afford the better stuff it will come out as money better spent than the
bargain basement stuff.

But for most cyclists I think Simon is on the money. Unless you are
quite physically limited (for whatever reason) a good quality human
powered bike isn't that hard to get about on and doesn't need batteries
charging or nearly as much spent to start with.

Do start with a test. If you're anywhere close to Glasgow then call in
at Kinetics for a play, and could well be worth dropping a line to for a
blether with Ben.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Round where I live (which is a hillyish area of Italy) these bikes are
used a lot by pensioners. The type generally favoured is just a normal
bike with a small insertable motor assist (centrifugal clutch) which is
powered by a torque controlled motor (DC motor with I limit). On the
flat they pedal normally (and here the weight of the battery is a non
issue). Going up hills they get extra push from the battery.

Basicly we are talking about casual bike riding that allows you to go
up hills without losing puff.

On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:20:37 +0100 someone who may be "Pete"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>My wife would like one

Any particular reason why she would like one?



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Don't be put off by all these "real" cyclists. I also cycle a fair bit and I do not have an electric bike but my father in law does. When we got it I rode it a fair bit, so did my wife and daughter, both non cyclists. Without doubt both thought it was "cool" and wanted to use it. FIL uses it regularly and has done for a couple of years. He thinks it's great and can do 25 miles plus just for fun, and he's 80 !
Ours is a Giant Lafree (basic model) which cost 100 new and about 500-600 S/H. Check out the classified ads in A to B mag.
Unfortunately the Lafree is now discontinued but there is a new model called the Suede http://www.giant-bicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.010.000.asp?model=10420 and it's cheaper!
Get a test ride and make a decision.
Good luck.
"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Does anyone have experience of buying, using electric bikes.
My wife would like one and they start around £290 (like Powacycle Milan) up to several thousand pounds.
Advice much appreciated.
Regards
Pete

Sorry---cost 1000 new, not 100.

SW
"Steve Watkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Don't be put off by all these "real" cyclists. I also cycle a fair bit and I do not have an electric bike but my father in law does. When we got it I rode it a fair bit, so did my wife and daughter, both non cyclists. Without doubt both thought it was "cool" and wanted to use it. FIL uses it regularly and has done for a couple of years. He thinks it's great and can do 25 miles plus just for fun, and he's 80 !
Ours is a Giant Lafree (basic model) which cost 100 new and about 500-600 S/H. Check out the classified ads in A to B mag.
Unfortunately the Lafree is now discontinued but there is a new model called the Suede http://www.giant-bicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.010.000.asp?model=10420 and it's cheaper!
Get a test ride and make a decision.
Good luck.
"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Does anyone have experience of buying, using electric bikes.
My wife would like one and they start around £290 (like Powacycle Milan) up to several thousand pounds.
Advice much appreciated.
Regards
Pete

Steve Watkin wrote:
> Sorry---cost 1000 new, not 100.

Ah! thought that sounded a bit too good to be true!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email protected]>, Steve Watkin wrote:
> Ours is a Giant Lafree (basic model) which cost 1000 new and about =
>500-600 S/H. Check out the classified ads in A to B mag.
> Unfortunately the Lafree is now discontinued but there is a new model =
>called the Suede =
>http://www.giant-bicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.010.000.asp?model=3D1042=
>0 and it's cheaper!

But, like almost everything else except the discontinued Lafree, uses
a hub motor rather than driving through gears like the human motor, so
can not run the motor at its most efficient speed both up steep hills
and on the flat. (Though since by law electric bikes are limited to
15mph, they are of limited use to many people on the flat anyway.
I still think one might be useful for my commute (which is relatively
flat) for days with headwinds. But the same money would go a fair way
towards a faired recumbent.)

I believe the Swiss Flyer (http://www.biketec.ch/topic7048.html) has
the motor in the bottom bracket using the gears. But I don't read
German.

Peter Clinch wrote:
>
> From what I've seen, if you do want to go down this route and can
> afford the better stuff it will come out as money better spent than the
> bargain basement stuff.
>
> But for most cyclists I think Simon is on the money. Unless you are
> quite physically limited (for whatever reason) a good quality human
> powered bike isn't that hard to get about on and doesn't need batteries
> charging or nearly as much spent to start with.
>

For a self charging version, try:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/ev-sunny-bicycle-powered-by-the-sun-171873.php


For a petrolhead version, try:

https://www.revopower.com/


--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Change is inevitable...............except from a PhotoMe
passport booth

On Mon, 15 May 2006 20:35:46 +0100, Don Whybrow
<[email protected]> wrote:

>For a self charging version, try:
>http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/ev-sunny-bicycle-powered-by-the-sun-171873.php

>For a petrolhead version, try:
>https://www.revopower.com/

Both nice ideas (albeit mopeds under UK law AIUI), especially the
solar one at that price - the panels alone would be several grand over
here at retail prices. They do look a tad easy to damage though.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
- Stuart Millington ALL HTML e-mail rejected -
- mailto[email protected] http://w3.z-add.co.uk/ -

On Mon, 15 May 2006 20:00:03 +0100, Alan Braggins wrote:

> I still think one might be useful for my commute (which is relatively
> flat) for days with headwinds. But the same money would go a fair way
> towards a faired recumbent.)
>
> I believe the Swiss Flyer (http://www.biketec.ch/topic7048.html) has the
> motor in the bottom bracket using the gears. But I don't read German.

My understanding of written German is rather rusty (40+ years out in the
rain since O-level ;-(, but they claim speeds that would make the motor
illegal in this country. For your commute (which passes my door for the
info of u.r.c) you'd need to have a battery pack that could take a fast
charge at work to make it both ways with power assist.

You'd be surprised at the difference in effort required into a headwind
between an unfaired but high bottom-bracket 'bent and an upright. Given
your height (& therefore frontal area) I'd expect you'd get get greater
benefits than I do. Perhaps I should come around with the Speed Ross
next time we have a strong wind across the East Cambs fens?


Mike

"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Does anyone have experience of buying, using electric bikes.
My wife would like one and they start around £290 (like Powacycle Milan) up
to several thousand pounds.
Advice much appreciated.
Regards
Pete

I own an electric bike and as mentioned early in this thread AtoB is THE
Authority on the subject and has been involved in this field for many years.
There was recently a gathering of owners of electric bikes for the 2006 Tour
de Presteigne as mentioned in the Telegraph last weekend here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring....xml&sSheet=/motoring/2006/05/13/ixmot.htmlit was a fun event and it attracted riders of widely varying ages andabilities. There was much interest from people curios as to what it was allabout and considering buying such bikes.Be warey of the comments you may receive here from doubting Thomases. Youmay get some people who dont know any better assuming you're interested inan electrically assisted bike because you're not up to ordinary cycling insome way, others will insist your money is better spent on a lighter bikewhich is miraculously easier to cycle up hills even though it doesn't have amotor and even though good electric bikes (usually not the cheap ones) areof similar weight to conventional bikes.Crucial factors in your choice will be your budget, what sort of terrainewill it be used on (flat/hilly/cycling up cliff faces etc) and how far willthe journey be that you want power assistance for (you can still ride themas conventional bikes when the battery runs out, you just dont get theassistance). Although its nice to have an electric bike like the Giant Twistwhich has the motor before the gears (so the motor can always be running atoptimum speeds - just like how the gears on a car work), a compromise answermay lie with a good hub motor arrangement if you'll only be encounteringshort or reasonably gentle hills. Be aware that although the famous GiantTwist has recently been discontinued, they are still in stock at many bikeshops in the UK until stocks are exhausted and they are still available inHolland - heres a picture of onehttp://www.giant-bicycles.com/nl/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?model=10157with Dutch description (sorry they're not on the Giant UK website anymore).Several ladies frame versions are available as well as gents ones withcrossbars if you select other dropdown options on that webpage.If you post back with your intended use and any further questions I'll tryto help as much as possible.Paul

in message <[email protected]>, Alan Braggins
('[email protected]') wrote:

> I believe the Swiss Flyer (http://www.biketec.ch/topic7048.html) has
> the motor in the bottom bracket using the gears. But I don't read
> German.

The Fish says:

Compromise lot converted mobility

Fast, ecologically and with much fun on the way - nearly loudless the
flyer F with up to 35 slides km/h and more there. Whether to the work,
for buying into the city or as towing vehicle for the child trailer:
Flyer F do not only drive are practical, but obtain a unique mobility
feeling.

In the own work in Kirchberg/manufactured engine with patented sensor
technology ensures for the fact that you must step only into the pedals
- and the flyer F doubles presently/immediately your strength. The
attractively designte framework from Swiss manufacturing and the own
assembly make the flyer a completely special piece of Swiss bicycle
history.

Security, comfort, speed and stability - to which flyer F offers (nearly)
everything that mobile humans wish themselves. In combination with
maximumstanding technology and attractively packed in the timeless
Design he makes compromiseless converted mobility only possible.
Depending upon range of application you select between two Akku variants
(5 ah and/or. 9 ah), which in all models available sin. For the correct
decision your Flyer center stands for you gladly talks and answer.

Do not hesitate - test the flyer F and experience you today your mobility
from tomorrow.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Anagram: I'm soon broke.

David Hansen wrote:

> Any particular reason why she would like one?

Think of the time you could save commuting, compared to a car, which
would in turn free-up time to get to the gym and a session on a
stationary bike.

Simon Brooke <[email protected]> of gradually deteriorating wrote:

>in message <[email protected]>, Alan Braggins
>('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>> I believe the Swiss Flyer (http://www.biketec.ch/topic7048.html) has
>> the motor in the bottom bracket using the gears. But I don't read
>> German.
>
>The Fish says:
Steph says:
Aaargh! I can do better than that

Transferable mobility without compromise

Quick, environmentally friendly and great fun: the Flyer F glides up to 35
km/h and more. Whether riding to work, going shopping in town or towing the
child trailer, riding the Flyer F is not only practical, but also conveys a
unique feeling of mobility. The engine is made in our own workshops in
Kirchberg in Belgium using patented sensor technology. You only have to
pedal and the Flyer F doubles your power in a moment. The attractively
designed frame of Swiss manufacture and our own mounting make the Flyer a
special part of Swiss bicycle history.

Safety, comfort, speed and stability - the Flyer F offers (almost)
everything that the mobile person requires. In combination with great
technology and attractively packed in a timeless design it makes possible
transferable mobility without comprise. You can choose between 5 batteries
suitable for different usage (5 Ah - 9 Ah), available on all models. The
Flyer-Centre are ready and waiting to answer your questions and give advice
on choosing.

<end translation>
OK, so it's marketing speak and some of it still doesn't make a lot of
sense.

Don't delay - test the Flyer F and experience today the mobility of
tomorrow.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchester
http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm

Mike Causer wrote:
>On Mon, 15 May 2006 20:00:03 +0100, Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> I still think one might be useful for my commute (which is relatively
>> flat) for days with headwinds. But the same money would go a fair way
>> towards a faired recumbent.)
>>
>> I believe the Swiss Flyer (http://www.biketec.ch/topic7048.html) has the
>> motor in the bottom bracket using the gears. But I don't read German.
>
>My understanding of written German is rather rusty (40+ years out in the
>rain since O-level ;-(, but they claim speeds that would make the motor
>illegal in this country.

(Or at least only legal as a moped.) That's part of why I didn't bother
looking around the whole site looking for technical details via Babelfish.
Fitting a speed linked cut-out switch can't be that difficult though, surely?


For your commute (which passes my door for the
>info of u.r.c) you'd need to have a battery pack that could take a fast
>charge at work to make it both ways with power assist.

Or two packs, swapping for one I'd left the day before.

http://www.bionx.ca/en/main/default/31.shtml#Batterie gives a 4 hour
charge time for their Li-ion 9Ah pack, which ought to give at least a
modest assist for the whole of a 32 mile commute without charging in
between the two halves anyway, even if the wind does swing around to give
a headwind both ways.


>You'd be surprised at the difference in effort required into a headwind
>between an unfaired but high bottom-bracket 'bent and an upright. Given
>your height (& therefore frontal area) I'd expect you'd get get greater
>benefits than I do. Perhaps I should come around with the Speed Ross
>next time we have a strong wind across the East Cambs fens?

Next time I'm cycling back from Wicken thinking "gosh it's blowing across
those fields", I might give you a ring. (Just now I'm in sunny California,
with a huge minivan (all the rental people had left) and no bike. I have
seen an electric RAV-4 here, and a few Priuses with "HOV lane OK" stickers.)