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Carbon Seat Says

post #1 of 13
1/8/06 at 12:30am
Thread Starter 
What's the point? Are they as durable? Has anyone had problems with carbon seat stays? It seems as though there are a lot of frames available with carbon seat stays. I was thinking about an all aluminum frame, but in higher end bikes, they all come with carbon seat stays.
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post #2 of 13
1/8/06 at 12:33am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenrose
What's the point? Are they as durable? Has anyone had problems with carbon seat stays? It seems as though there are a lot of frames available with carbon seat stays. I was thinking about an all aluminum frame, but in higher end bikes, they all come with carbon seat stays.
Mostly a marketing gimmick. They're heavier, and they don't necessarily make the ride more comfortable. I'd worry more about the ride of the bike, as well as the fit. If the bike that works for you happens to have CF stays, so be it.
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post #3 of 13
1/8/06 at 1:55am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenrose
What's the point? Are they as durable? Has anyone had problems with carbon seat stays? It seems as though there are a lot of frames available with carbon seat stays. I was thinking about an all aluminum frame, but in higher end bikes, they all come with carbon seat stays.
a fellow racer friend of mine always complained that it felt like he had a flat tire when he pushed really hard. He had carbon seat and chain stays though and he described the sensation as splashy. He switched back to full alu and felt like he was getting more power to the rear wheel.

JS
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post #4 of 13
1/8/06 at 2:12am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

well, may I ask, do u think my carbon seat stays is a marketing gimmick? It's written there "High Modulus Carbon". I wonder if they mean it or not. It's a Fuji bike btw..

tq
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post #5 of 13
1/8/06 at 6:16pm

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenrose
What's the point? Are they as durable? Has anyone had problems with carbon seat stays? It seems as though there are a lot of frames available with carbon seat stays. I was thinking about an all aluminum frame, but in higher end bikes, they all come with carbon seat stays.
I have them on my high-end steel frame. The bike rides well, corners and sprints fine and the bike is noticeably more comfy than my all-aluminum frameset (it's not a fair comparison though to compare the ride of a $5k bke to a $2k bike). Petacchi has them on his bike, so I doubt they make a bike any slower.
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post #6 of 13
1/8/06 at 9:40pm

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenrose
What's the point? Are they as durable? Has anyone had problems with carbon seat stays? It seems as though there are a lot of frames available with carbon seat stays. I was thinking about an all aluminum frame, but in higher end bikes, they all come with carbon seat stays.
Regardless of how they affect the ride of the bike, my prediction is that over time we will hear more and more reports of problems with the joints between carbon stays and the rest of the frame. On this forum there have been at least two reports within the last few months regarding problems with separation, one on an Orbea I believe, and the other on a Litespeed Ultimate I think. Whereas most of the bikes with carbon stays coupled to steel, aluminum, or titanium may be fine over time, I think that this is just inviting the possibility of problems where there have historically been none. I have nothing against carbon in general, but I personally would avoid one of these mixed material frames. Just my 2 cents.
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post #7 of 13
1/8/06 at 10:15pm

Re: Carbon Seat Says

I HAD an Orbea Altec Carbon. The rear dropouts (both) bonding to the seat stay separated. That was 2 years ago. Through my LBS, they exchanged my Altec Carbon to the Orbea 50 for $800. So far so good for a year now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John M
Regardless of how they affect the ride of the bike, my prediction is that over time we will hear more and more reports of problems with the joints between carbon stays and the rest of the frame. On this forum there have been at least two reports within the last few months regarding problems with separation, one on an Orbea I believe, and the other on a Litespeed Ultimate I think. Whereas most of the bikes with carbon stays coupled to steel, aluminum, or titanium may be fine over time, I think that this is just inviting the possibility of problems where there have historically been none. I have nothing against carbon in general, but I personally would avoid one of these mixed material frames. Just my 2 cents.
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post #8 of 13
1/8/06 at 10:22pm

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenrose
What's the point? Are they as durable? Has anyone had problems with carbon seat stays? It seems as though there are a lot of frames available with carbon seat stays. I was thinking about an all aluminum frame, but in higher end bikes, they all come with carbon seat stays.
I don't really like them either - mostly because it's marketing nonsense being shoved down our throats, but I haven't heard too many bad things about the ones on high-end bikes. Disadvantage in not being able to use wider tires maybe - more easily damaged by clamps for lights or other accessories.

But there are still plenty of really nice all aluminum frames out there - check out Boreas and Principia.
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post #9 of 13
1/9/06 at 12:31am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Most carbon frames and componets have alumium parts that are held in place with epoxy. Aluminum steerer tubes, front and rear dropouts, bb shells, seatpost clamps etc. I wouldn't think the carbon seat stays would have any higher failure rate than anything else. I will agree though that a full alloy rear triangle would have even fewer failures... Just my .02..
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post #10 of 13
1/9/06 at 12:45am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Even though I'm sure there are a gazillion good alu/carbon bikes out there, I've been put off by them.

This is only anecdotal, but I test rode, with full intention to buy (I put down a deposit), 2 barely used aluminium bikes with carbon seat-stays, and they both creaked like crazy. They bikes were a Ciocc Challenger and a Look AL ###.

The guys at the shop couldn't get rid of the creaks, so there was no way I was gunna risk wasting my money. I ended up buying a cheaper Cinelli Proxima made with full aluminium: Columbus Zonal.

Bikes with carbon rears tend to be more expensive, and I'm not rich enough to spend 1500+ bucks on a frame they might start creaking.


The whole thing with carbon is that it's still a bit expensive, and, most of all, it's a little fragile and not idiot proof. I'm sure if i had a carbon bike I would jam the chain on my first ride, or my dog would knock it over when his tennis ball rolls behind it..............anyway, I'm sure I'd bust it
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post #11 of 13
1/9/06 at 1:25am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

I have my second full-carbon bike. Although there is a difference in the coefficient of expansion between carbon composites and aluminum there is evidence that, early on, there were delamination problems with such joints. They have been solved with proper engineering and manufacturing controls. That said, there are still junky frames being marketed with carbon seat stays bonded to aluminum main triangles. There is no inherent weakness in such a combination, contrary to what the flying myths are currently. The problem is you find good and bad designs everywhere, so at is always goes, caveat emptor.

Check out this white paper at: http://www.calfeedesign.com/whitepaper1.htm
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post #12 of 13
1/9/06 at 1:29am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJersey
I HAD an Orbea Altec Carbon. The rear dropouts (both) bonding to the seat stay separated. That was 2 years ago. Through my LBS, they exchanged my Altec Carbon to the Orbea 50 for $800. So far so good for a year now.

Ouch... $800
Was that deal between you and the LBS , or was it between you and Orbea ?? I've noticed as of late, that bike builders/manufactures tend to go through LBS/mail order places to make the customer "happy" vs. dealing with the customer directly. This way, from the way I see it.... its the frame builders way of "staying out of harms way" if the $hit hits the fan ..... and then only have to deal w/ the LBS (if the LBS gets toooo many of these "bad bike frames" ..... then its to the discresion of the LBS to drop that frame builder as being a distributer for them.

However, that extra $800 .... someone was out for the all mighty $$$ ... I'm not made of money , but even if you were- $800 would still be a chunk of money.
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post #13 of 13
1/9/06 at 2:22am

Re: Carbon Seat Says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insight Driver
I have my second full-carbon bike. Although there is a difference in the coefficient of expansion between carbon composites and aluminum there is evidence that, early on, there were delamination problems with such joints. They have been solved with proper engineering and manufacturing controls. That said, there are still junky frames being marketed with carbon seat stays bonded to aluminum main triangles. There is no inherent weakness in such a combination, contrary to what the flying myths are currently. The problem is you find good and bad designs everywhere, so at is always goes, caveat emptor.

Check out this white paper at: http://www.calfeedesign.com/whitepaper1.htm
Although what you say is true, I wouldn't use any white paper to justify an argument. White papers are not objective treatises but marketing driven documents intended to convince a customer that your chit is better. They are not research papers.
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