Mountain Bikers SILENT about Environmental Destruction in Their Backyard! - Page 4

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Fri, 26 May 2006 23:50:27 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
wrote:

>
>"S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:CNodg.14537$B42.12443@dukeread05...
>>
>> "Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:t7h972hulf8b3secbjg372tiaqmsmniv9c@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 24 May 2006 13:46:56 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Like Vandeman, reality escapes you...
>>>>>>> You just lost any credibility you may have held claim to. I own 2
>>>>>>> mountain
>>>>>>> bikes (actually, one belongs to the wife). I personally own 5 road
>>>>>>> bikes:
>>>>>>> A Paramount, a Colnago, a Merckx and 2 Pinarellos. I spend 90% of my
>>>>>>> cycling time on the road bikes.
>>>>>>> The FACT of this apparently is beyond your scope - so you can take
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> claim of "the Great" and this schizo "saint" ego of yours, stick your
>>>>>>> butt
>>>>>>> in your comfy lounge chair on wheels, and ride back to where you came
>>>>>>> from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why can't you stay happy on your road bikes? Are there not enough roads
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>the land for you to ride them on? Why must you invade sacred spaces
>>>>>>like a
>>>>>>footpath - on a bicycle of all things. Can't you walk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mountain bikers are too LAZY to hike.
>>>>Opinion. Supposition. No basis in fact, statistics or scientific
>>>>reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't you hike? Why
>>>>>>are you such a slob and such a sinner and, indeed, such a cretin?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Curtiss stands condemned out of his own mouth. He has road bikes, but
>>>>>>he
>>>>>>would like to be able to ride his bikes off-road. That is why he has a
>>>>>>mountain bike. He is nothing but a bully and a thug. He wants what is
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>his to want. He is truly criminal in his attitude toward the natural
>>>>>>world
>>>>>>and my sacred footpaths.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Vandeman is championing the creatures of the earth who cannot defend
>>>>>>themselves against criminal vandals and thugs like Curtiss. All Curtiss
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>championing are his own selfish interests which, if he had any brains,
>>>>>>he
>>>>>>should not have in the first place. There are special places in Hell
>>>>>>reserved for his kind. I, as a Great Saint, will point Curtiss out to
>>>>>>God
>>>>>>when the time comes for him to get his just deserts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mountain bikers get their just desserts here on Earth: impotence and
>>>>> other serious injuries. It's just poetic justice (I use words with
>>>>> more than one syllable, because I know that mountain bikers can't
>>>>> understand them).
>>>>>
>>>>You mean serious injuries like falls, slips, broken bones, cuts, bruises,
>>>>heart attacks, etc that are also sustained by hikers...?
>>>
>>> It's well known that mountain biking is FAR more dangerous than
>>> hiking.
>>> ===
>> Well known by who...? This has been acknowledged by which official
>> agency...? Your claims mean NOTHING. Your statements about dangers of
>> off-road cycling mean NOTHING. As long as you are going to only post
>> cycling related injuries or deaths, while making a claim that it is
>> "inherently" dangerous compared to hiking, and COMPLETELY IGNORE
>> comparative information showing similar incidents of hiking, then your
>> statements mean NOTHING. They are ramblings based on your OPINION and only
>> highlight your bias of reporting, your methods of discovery of
>> information, and the lack of foundation for your conclusions.
>
>Nonsense, EVERYONE in the entire world KNOWS that mountain biking is far
>more dangerous than hiking. However, from my point of view, it is not
>dangerous enough. I would like to see mountain bikers killing themselves by
>the thousands going down steep rocky slopes. Hells Bells, I might even help
>them kill themselves by placing some obstacles on the trail for them to hit!
>Yea, the more dead mountain bikers, the better!

Luckily, their worst enemies are themselves. Evolution in action.

>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Sun, 28 May 2006 11:57:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>news:E5qdnfGqnosqJuXZnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:F8%dg.14666$B42.11235@dukeread05...
>>> Does anyone else hear a gnat...?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kLWdnR_RVJ1GQurZnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>>> I have gathered from your woeful lack of intelligence that you only read
>>>> junk science research which purports to show that biking and hiking are
>>>> one and the same thing - when any fool knows they are vastly different.
>>>
>>> ...as opposed to junk science research which purports to show only that
>>> biking is more harmful than hiking....?
>>> Since you and MV are proclaiming the differences, it looks as if you are
>>> also the "fool" you reference.
>>
>> Mountain bikers are into nothing but fun and games. Hikers are
>> philosophers who are into deep thinking about humankind and the universe.
>> They certainly do not belong on the same trails together.
>>
>Hmmm... A lot of the hikers I see are loud, walking all over the trail and
>off it, leaving trash behind, carrying and drinking alcohol, being careless
>about their own safety and others... Yep. Hikers are certainly the cream
>of the crop of humanity.
>Don't insult us with your wishful generalizations. You may venture out with
>that frame of mind, but do NOT place all hikers in that very small subset.
>And, by the same logic, you can not reference all off-road cyclists' motives
>based on either your opinion of the activity or the actions of a minority to
>which you may (or simply claim to) witness.
>
>>>> Curtiss, I urge you to get to a library and read something that was
>>>> written several hundred years ago. Most of what is presently being
>>>> written today is not good for you and will rot your brain. I suggest
>>>> you begin with Shakespeare and work your way up to the end of the 19th
>>>> century. Anything written after 1900 is not good for you and will make
>>>> you even worse than you already are. I plead with you to get some
>>>> culture and to give up your slob mountain biking ways.
>>>
>>> So now the great "Conan the Librarian" is pleading....? I don't need
>>> Shakespeare to read a tragedy - I can do that by looking at Vandeman's
>>> webpage.
>>>
>>>> PS. Be sure to get to work right away writing the definitive history of
>>>> the impact of mountain biking on the modern world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> At least it would be more entertaining than reading the one-word history
>>> of the impact of Dolan on the modern world. (Dolan=Null)
>>> No thanks - I believe I would rather ride and experience it first hand...
>>
>> Personal experience is only worth so much. It has to be checked against
>> the experience of many others. Those who write books have generally
>> thought about a subject quite extensively. Do less riding and more writing
>> and maybe you will get clearer in your mind about what matters in this
>> world. I assure you that mountain biking matters hardly at all whereas
>> what the Great Ed Dolan thinks matters enormously.
>
>..and where is the published work of Ed Dolan? (I already know you are not
>"Edward F. Dolan".)
>
>Again... I think it is more advantageous I get out on the bike and see some
>trees.

Since when is it necessary to bring along a BIKE in order to see
trees??? In fact, having to pay attention to controlling a BIKE
interferes with your ability to look at trees -- if you were honest.

As far as what the "not so great ed dolan (Conan the Librarian)"
>thinks about anything...
>http://www.weirdlittlebiscuit.com/im...3ta/donkey.jpg
>>
>
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Sun, 28 May 2006 14:01:09 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
wrote:

>>>
>>>Nonsense, EVERYONE in the entire world KNOWS that mountain biking is far
>>>more dangerous than hiking. However, from my point of view, it is not
>>>dangerous enough. I would like to see mountain bikers killing themselves
>>>by
>>>the thousands going down steep rocky slopes. Hells Bells, I might even
>>>help
>>>them kill themselves by placing some obstacles on the trail for them to
>>>hit!
>>>Yea, the more dead mountain bikers, the better!
>>
>> Luckily, their worst enemies are themselves. Evolution in action.
>>
>Thanks, Mike Vandeman, for again showing how you favor violence to solve a
>problem. (Duly noted and forever available as a Google Group search under
>"vandeman")

Where do you see me advocating voiolence? You are fabricating again.
What I REALLY said was "Luckily, their worst enemies are themselves.
Evolution in action." I don't see the world "violence" there....
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Tue, 30 May 2006 14:48:43 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>news:dlrk721lkdkc3301gm32t6dd7b191b1l5g@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 28 May 2006 11:57:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>> At least it would be more entertaining than reading the one-word
>>>>> history
>>>>> of the impact of Dolan on the modern world. (Dolan=Null)
>>>>> No thanks - I believe I would rather ride and experience it first
>>>>> hand...
>>>>
>>>> Personal experience is only worth so much. It has to be checked against
>>>> the experience of many others. Those who write books have generally
>>>> thought about a subject quite extensively. Do less riding and more
>>>> writing
>>>> and maybe you will get clearer in your mind about what matters in this
>>>> world. I assure you that mountain biking matters hardly at all whereas
>>>> what the Great Ed Dolan thinks matters enormously.
>>>
>>>..and where is the published work of Ed Dolan? (I already know you are not
>>>"Edward F. Dolan".)
>>>
>>>Again... I think it is more advantageous I get out on the bike and see
>>>some
>>>trees.
>>
>> Since when is it necessary to bring along a BIKE in order to see
>> trees??? In fact, having to pay attention to controlling a BIKE
>> interferes with your ability to look at trees -- if you were honest.
>We've covered this - Your OPINION and lack of desire or ability is no
>measure of the abilities of someone else. I can control a bike and look at
>trees. Your lack of that ability, or desire to explore that ability, is
>MEANINGLESS.
>Since when is it necessary to use any type of tool to increase the
>effectiveness of an activity?

So you agree that it's not necessary to allow bikes off-road?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:01:46 -0400, "S Curtiss" <stevecurtiss@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>news:ntjp729mv5gsl4kisnid8en674jlveof6a@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 30 May 2006 14:48:43 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>>news:dlrk721lkdkc3301gm32t6dd7b191b1l5g@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 28 May 2006 11:57:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least it would be more entertaining than reading the one-word
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>> of the impact of Dolan on the modern world. (Dolan=Null)
>>>>>>> No thanks - I believe I would rather ride and experience it first
>>>>>>> hand...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personal experience is only worth so much. It has to be checked
>>>>>> against
>>>>>> the experience of many others. Those who write books have generally
>>>>>> thought about a subject quite extensively. Do less riding and more
>>>>>> writing
>>>>>> and maybe you will get clearer in your mind about what matters in this
>>>>>> world. I assure you that mountain biking matters hardly at all whereas
>>>>>> what the Great Ed Dolan thinks matters enormously.
>>>>>
>>>>>..and where is the published work of Ed Dolan? (I already know you are
>>>>>not
>>>>>"Edward F. Dolan".)
>>>>>
>>>>>Again... I think it is more advantageous I get out on the bike and see
>>>>>some
>>>>>trees.
>>>>
>>>> Since when is it necessary to bring along a BIKE in order to see
>>>> trees??? In fact, having to pay attention to controlling a BIKE
>>>> interferes with your ability to look at trees -- if you were honest.
>>>We've covered this - Your OPINION and lack of desire or ability is no
>>>measure of the abilities of someone else. I can control a bike and look at
>>>trees. Your lack of that ability, or desire to explore that ability, is
>>>MEANINGLESS.
>>>Since when is it necessary to use any type of tool to increase the
>>>effectiveness of an activity?
>>
>> So you agree that it's not necessary to allow bikes off-road?
>> ===
>Who said it was "necessary"...? Making something "necessary" (required, so
>to speak) is a far cry from making, or keeping, it legal as an option. Your
>insistence that it be banned simply because you do not choose to utilize it
>as a tool is not necessary, either. The off-road bicycle is a tool, just as
>a backpack or canteen is a tool. A loaded pack often weighs as much as a
>bicycle. You argue for banning one tool based on your OPINIONS, which have
>not been PROVEN to be anything but opinions. You scoff at other research,
>often conducted by accredited researchers, if it counters your OPINIONS than
>rally behind a battle of verbage and semantics when you get called on these
>opinions.
>What has been proven unnecessary are your writings, submissions and
>opinions. Road construction continues. Sprawl continues. Habitat destruction
>continues. And the ONLY thing you continue is to whine about bicycles...
>That is no longer pathetic... It is simply a waste.

Did you say something?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On 01 Jun 2006 13:46:13 GMT, Chris Foster
<john_foster_in_erie@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in
>newsdpr72l9spuapii24moru9i7ju0idq5tep@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:01:46 -0400, "S Curtiss" <stevecurtiss@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>>news:ntjp729mv5gsl4kisnid8en674jlveof6a@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 30 May 2006 14:48:43 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:dlrk721lkdkc3301gm32t6dd7b191b1l5g@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sun, 28 May 2006 11:57:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <scurtiss@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At least it would be more entertaining than reading the
>>>>>>>>> one-word history
>>>>>>>>> of the impact of Dolan on the modern world. (Dolan=Null)
>>>>>>>>> No thanks - I believe I would rather ride and experience it
>>>>>>>>> first hand...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personal experience is only worth so much. It has to be checked
>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>> the experience of many others. Those who write books have
>>>>>>>> generally thought about a subject quite extensively. Do less
>>>>>>>> riding and more writing
>>>>>>>> and maybe you will get clearer in your mind about what matters
>>>>>>>> in this world. I assure you that mountain biking matters hardly
>>>>>>>> at all whereas what the Great Ed Dolan thinks matters
>>>>>>>> enormously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>..and where is the published work of Ed Dolan? (I already know you
>>>>>>>are not
>>>>>>>"Edward F. Dolan".)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Again... I think it is more advantageous I get out on the bike
>>>>>>>and see some
>>>>>>>trees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since when is it necessary to bring along a BIKE in order to see
>>>>>> trees??? In fact, having to pay attention to controlling a BIKE
>>>>>> interferes with your ability to look at trees -- if you were
>>>>>> honest.
>>>>>We've covered this - Your OPINION and lack of desire or ability is
>>>>>no measure of the abilities of someone else. I can control a bike
>>>>>and look at trees. Your lack of that ability, or desire to explore
>>>>>that ability, is MEANINGLESS.
>>>>>Since when is it necessary to use any type of tool to increase the
>>>>>effectiveness of an activity?
>>>>
>>>> So you agree that it's not necessary to allow bikes off-road?
>>>> ===
>>>Who said it was "necessary"...? Making something "necessary"
>>>(required, so to speak) is a far cry from making, or keeping, it legal
>>>as an option. Your insistence that it be banned simply because you do
>>>not choose to utilize it as a tool is not necessary, either. The
>>>off-road bicycle is a tool, just as a backpack or canteen is a tool. A
>>>loaded pack often weighs as much as a bicycle. You argue for banning
>>>one tool based on your OPINIONS, which have not been PROVEN to be
>>>anything but opinions. You scoff at other research, often conducted by
>>>accredited researchers, if it counters your OPINIONS than rally behind
>>>a battle of verbage and semantics when you get called on these
>>>opinions. What has been proven unnecessary are your writings,
>>>submissions and opinions. Road construction continues. Sprawl
>>>continues. Habitat destruction continues. And the ONLY thing you
>>>continue is to whine about bicycles... That is no longer pathetic...
>>>It is simply a waste.
>>
>> Did you say something?
>
>Yeah, he said you are wasting your time.
>
>Has one off-road cyclist quit riding off road due to you posting your
>opinions on this NG?? If so, please provide names, so that it can be
>verified. If not, just proff that you are wasting your time.

It's enough that I am educating all of you, even if you aren't smart
enough to know it.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 00:17:34 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
wrote:

>
>"S Curtiss" <stevecurtiss@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:9xFfg.15551$B42.2972@dukeread05...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>> news:qrGdnTRq8fFuPuPZRVn-gg@prairiewave.com...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Hmmm... A lot of the hikers I see are loud, walking all over the trail
>>>> and off it, leaving trash behind, carrying and drinking alcohol, being
>>>> careless about their own safety and others... Yep. Hikers are
>>>> certainly the cream of the crop of humanity.
>>>> Don't insult us with your wishful generalizations. You may venture out
>>>> with that frame of mind, but do NOT place all hikers in that very small
>>>> subset. And, by the same logic, you can not reference all off-road
>>>> cyclists' motives based on either your opinion of the activity or the
>>>> actions of a minority to which you may (or simply claim to) witness.
>>>
>>> I have just never seen any slob hikers, whereas I have seen plenty of
>>> slob mountain bikers.
>>
>> Then maybe its you... Perhaps you need a mirror.
>>>
>>>>>>> Curtiss, I urge you to get to a library and read something that was
>>>>>>> written several hundred years ago. Most of what is presently being
>>>>>>> written today is not good for you and will rot your brain. I suggest
>>>>>>> you begin with Shakespeare and work your way up to the end of the
>>>>>>> 19th century. Anything written after 1900 is not good for you and
>>>>>>> will make you even worse than you already are. I plead with you to
>>>>>>> get some culture and to give up your slob mountain biking ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So now the great "Conan the Librarian" is pleading....? I don't need
>>>>>> Shakespeare to read a tragedy - I can do that by looking at Vandeman's
>>>>>> webpage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS. Be sure to get to work right away writing the definitive history
>>>>>>> of the impact of mountain biking on the modern world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least it would be more entertaining than reading the one-word
>>>>>> history of the impact of Dolan on the modern world. (Dolan=Null)
>>>>>> No thanks - I believe I would rather ride and experience it first
>>>>>> hand...
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal experience is only worth so much. It has to be checked against
>>>>> the experience of many others. Those who write books have generally
>>>>> thought about a subject quite extensively. Do less riding and more
>>>>> writing and maybe you will get clearer in your mind about what matters
>>>>> in this world. I assure you that mountain biking matters hardly at all
>>>>> whereas what the Great Ed Dolan thinks matters enormously.
>>>>
>>>> ..and where is the published work of Ed Dolan? (I already know you are
>>>> not "Edward F. Dolan".)
>>>
>>> It is only industrious beavers like yourself who can work their way up to
>>> writing anything and getting it published. I am way too lazy for any such
>>> endeavors. I am like God that way, it is simply enough that I am.
>>
>> You are... a waste of space? a blot on the floor? an ego with
>> constipation?
>>>
>>>> Again... I think it is more advantageous I get out on the bike and see
>>>> some trees. As far as what the "not so great ed dolan (Conan the
>>>> Librarian)" thinks about anything...
>>>> http://www.weirdlittlebiscuit.com/im...3ta/donkey.jpg
>>>
>>> Nope, I will never go to a link of yours because I do not trust you. But
>>> you enjoy looking at your pictures all you want. I shall continue to
>>> contemplate my navel as is my custom from my early childhood.
>>
>> ...and all this time I thought you were a construct from A-51 that got
>> loose before being educated....
>
>Curtiss is a wonderful example of a cretin who thinks he knows something. I
>place him at the high school level, but a high schooler who has done a bit
>or reading on his own. However, that is not good enough for the kind of
>world we are living in today. He badly needs instruction by his superiors. I
>myself am far too lazy (my very best virtue) to bother with him. No, he will
>have to get on in this old world the best he can with what he's got. He will
>never go far, but maybe he can stay one or two steps ahead of all the
>Mexican peons that are pouring into the country.

I doubt it. I don't think he can even make a decent burrito or fight a
bull.

>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 08:06:46 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
wrote:

>
>"S Curtiss" <stevecurtiss@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:myYhg.20103$B42.1490@dukeread05...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>> news:bPqdnWz8MIZm9BvZnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or
>>>>>> in reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob
>>>>> mountain biker like you.
>>>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>>>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis
>>>> to make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>>>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>>>> less any field of research or reference.
>>>
>>> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already
>>> told you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point
>>> of view.
>> And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
>> information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.
>
>You want to unbalance what was formerly in perfect balance - when trails
>were for hikers only.
>
>>>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>>>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>>>>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>>>
>>>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>>>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>>>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>>>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>>>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>>>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>>>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>>>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>>>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>>>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>>>> validity.
>>>
>>> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
>> As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.
>
>So then, you are working to get more and more areas designated wilderness? I
>think not!
>
>>>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I
>>>>> will do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to
>>>>> any good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as
>>>>> the driven snow and you are not!
>>>>
>>>> Do I laugh now...?
>>>
>>> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
>>> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
>>> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
>>> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
>>> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
>>> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you
>>> cannot see this.
>>
>> People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
>> ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking,
>> riding a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of
>> your group and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for
>> off-road cyclists.
>
>The above has already been addressed many times by me and Vandeman in
>previous messages.
>
>>>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met
>>>>> a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I
>>>>> sure as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>>>
>>>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>>>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>>>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming
>>>> any group of persons above another especially on the basis of an
>>>> activity. It is just plain silly.
>>>
>>> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not
>>> a pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
>>> possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
>>> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
>>> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.
>>
>> What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
>> chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
>> choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the
>> activity "special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only
>> do so for your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist
>> or person and their motives for doing anything.
>
>The above has already been addressed many times by me in previous messages.
>
>>>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>>>>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>>>>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>>>>
>>>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
>>>> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
>>>> anyone else.
>>>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>>>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>>>
>>> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
>>> meet.
>> You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>>>
>>>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like
>>>> Al Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight
>>>> into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>>>
>>> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
>>> trails. That much is known for sure.
>>
>> For sure, you have no clue what I would find.
>
>I recommend that you say 5 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys as your penance
>for being an unreconstructed slob mountain biker. The ruination of the
>wilderness is on your head. God will punish you for desecrating His
>creation.

O, heck. EVERY Dolan post is my latest favorite. Your brilliance is
exceeded only by your humor.

>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mountain Biking Tied to Serious Spinal Injuries: Evolution at Work!

"One patient left the hospital against medical advice." That says it
all!

Mike


Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:17:29 -0800
From: Normonster <normonster@gmail.com>
Subject: Mtn Biking & spinal injuries

Mountain Biking
Tied to Serious
Spinal Injuries
HA L I FAX, N. S. ­ Mountain biking
is a growing cause of serious spinal injuries,
often resulting in permanent disability,
Dr. Neilson McLean reported in
a poster at the 11th International Conference
on Emergency Medicine.
Dr. McLean, an emergency medicine
resident at the University of British Columbia,
Vancouver, retrospectively examined
the trauma and spine registries
of three Vancouver-area trauma centers
in 1994-2004. During that time, 399
patients were treated for injuries. Of
those, 52 sustained spinal injuries.
Most of the patients were male
(92%), and they had an average age of
33 years. Most (36) had been wearing a
helmet at the time of the accident.
The most common mechanism of injury
was a fall over the handlebars (29).
Their average injury severity score was
17. A total of 54% required surgery.
Most of the patients (71%) sustained
a severe spinal injury; 33% had a root
injury, 11% a central cord injury, 22%
an incomplete spinal cord injury, and
34% a complete spinal cord injury.
Upon discharge, 54% had a neurologic
deficit. A total of 32 patients were
discharged to home. However, 15 went
to a rehabilitation facility and 4 to an
acute care facility. One patient left the
hospital against medical advice.
­Michele G. Sullivan


** I had trouble sending the original in pdf format. If interested, I
can send this out from a different account. -Norm
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Re: Being alive leads to death

On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 00:35:40 -0500, "S Curtiss" <stevecurtiss@cox.net>
wrote:

>Film at 11
>
>Merely eating spinach caused many to be seriously ill.
>Thousands are killed on America's roadways.
>Falls in the home still leading cause of injury.
>Drowning tops threats to childhood safety.
>
>Is there any reason to explore the absurdity of MV's posting any further?
>
>Tha answer is

Did you say something?

"NO".

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande