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Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Some more newbie SWB observations:

* Disc brakes are amazing!!! NO FEAR -- I stopped on a dime,
basically. A handful of times I skidded another few inches, probably,
but I haven't felt so astounded since first meeting V-brakes ten years
ago! I have Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes -- can only wonder what
those Magurar Marta hydraulic ones stop like!!!

* Rear air shocks are great!!! I'm not sure that they're necessarily
better in performance than regular steel spring shocks -- I've only
tried the steel ones once, and just a few minutes over a few speed
bumps and some small potholes -- but they're certainly a hell lot more
easier to adjust!

* Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires are nice! Slow, too, I think -- I "feel
the road," if you know what I mean -- but there's also not been a
stretch of debris, rocks and wood splinters and glass and angular
stones which I've been worried about yet! I actually go through them
rather deliberately just to see if I can get a puncture! So far, I'm
very impressed, and still rather glad to sacrifice the speed in
exchange for peace of mind!

* Speed sucks!!! I'm over 5 mph slower than my upright! This is
definitely the case. With a change of tires and more developed
'bent-muscles that might narrow a mile or two, but unfortunately I'll
always be far slower than on an upright. Sigh!

* Chains are incredible! By which I mean that I can't believe my chain
CUT THROUGH the metal clamp that was holding the teflon tubing -- which
it had shredded! I don't know how this happened; by the time I
noticed, top chain management was KIA!!! Interestingly, I haven't yet
suffered any visible leg grease...maybe it's the teflon lubrication??
I'm not sure whether (or how, exactly) to replace the top chain
tubing....

* A ***** to haul!!! There's no obvious place to grab, really, and the
weight distribution makes it totally unwieldy for narrow stairways.
It's a chore just taking the damned thing out for a spin! I wonder if
my back's getting stressed from the contortions I have to make
manuevering it up and down four flights of narrow ("single-breasted")
stairs, thus somewhat under-cutting recumbent-riding's lower back
benefits! I've had to develop a very strict and careful way of
handling the 'bent, akin to observing proper form in weight-lifting!

* A real work-out! I still haven't met a hill I can't yet climb on the
'bent, but I am definitely breathing harder -- and I'm a B-grade
athelete! I enjoy the work-out, but it's rather embarrassing huffing
and puffing, giving a less-than-stellar impression of the 'bent.
post #2 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147311799.657853.168100@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> * Speed sucks!!! I'm over 5 mph slower than my upright! This is
> definitely the case. With a change of tires and more developed
> 'bent-muscles that might narrow a mile or two, but unfortunately I'll
> always be far slower than on an upright. Sigh!


So what is your new average speed?
post #3 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1147311799.657853.168100@q12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> [...]
> > * Speed sucks!!! I'm over 5 mph slower than my upright! This is
> > definitely the case. With a change of tires and more developed
> > 'bent-muscles that might narrow a mile or two, but unfortunately I'll
> > always be far slower than on an upright. Sigh!

>
> You will always be somewhat slower on a recumbent than you will be on an
> upright, all things being equal. However, some recumbent riders actually do
> get faster than they ever were on their uprights, but that is because they
> ride their recumbents more and hence get stronger. But overall it is more
> work to go fast on a recumbent, especially uphill.
>
> For many years when I wanted a good workout I would ride my upright in
> preference to my recumbent, but eventually I settled on the recumbent as it
> was just more enjoyable to ride.
> [...]
>
> > * A real work-out! I still haven't met a hill I can't yet climb on the
> > 'bent, but I am definitely breathing harder -- and I'm a B-grade
> > athelete! I enjoy the work-out, but it's rather embarrassing huffing
> > and puffing, giving a less-than-stellar impression of the 'bent.

>
> You will be much slower going uphill on a recumbent. I have known several
> guys who gave up on recumbents for precisely that one reason. I would rather
> be slow and comfortable than fast and uncomfortable. The older you get, the
> more important this becomes.


I always read 'bent threads because I can always count on the last
statement.....uprights by definition, are not 'uncomfortable' and the
older you get(I'm 55), it is not automatically important that you get a
'bent....My upright is comfy, I see no need to get a bent because of my
upright's comfort or my age...

>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
> I always read 'bent threads because I can always count on the last
> statement.....uprights by definition, are not 'uncomfortable' and the
> older you get(I'm 55), it is not automatically important that you get a
> 'bent....My upright is comfy, I see no need to get a bent because of my
> upright's comfort or my age...




My Trek 1000c is the most comfortable upright I've ever had! In two
months I had 700 miles on it already. But nothing is as comfortable as
my SMGTe! It's like the difference between night and day.

The Trek is now relegated to errand-running in the neighborhood, etc.
For long rides where I don't have to leave my bike out of site, I am
definitely riding 'bent!
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Mark Leuck wrote:
>
>
> So what is your new average speed?



It seems to be 15 mph. =(

Even on a clear and all-out downhill run I've only been able to post 29
mph on this 'bent. On the same slope with my Trek 1000c I've reached
top speeds of 36 mph! Also, the 'bent feels noticeably unstable at its
top speeds. The upright, hardly.

I'm curious how a faster 'bent would perform....
post #6 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Gary wrote:
> I also have a couple of uprights and they are comfortable for the first
> few minutes and then I can't stand to ride them. My recumbents are
> definately more comfortable. Not only that but, I don't have to worry
> about my prostate like I would on an upright. I know that there are
> riders out there that have ridden uprights all of there lives and never
> had a problem just like there are people that have smoked all of their
> lives and never had a problem but, why take the chance?


FUD for thought.
post #7 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Peter Clinch wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> > Even on a clear and all-out downhill run I've only been able to post 29
> > mph on this 'bent. On the same slope with my Trek 1000c I've reached
> > top speeds of 36 mph! Also, the 'bent feels noticeably unstable at its
> > top speeds.

>
> IME most people reporting wibbles on an SMGT have not been relaxed. A
> friend reported a shimmy he got at around 30 on a test bike, I found the
> exact same machine rock solid, /but/ I had a couple if years' 'bent
> experience at that point.
>
> I've found if you keep a very light touch on the bars the bike is rock
> solid past 40 mph with or without full touring gear, even through bends
> on bumpy roads.


Might this have something to do with rider size and the fore-aft weight
balance on the bike? I've never ridden a 'bent but I have been
considering it. I was leaning toward a SWB USS but if long heavy legs
sticking way out over the front wheel contributes to instability, I'll
reconsider LWB. The fact that the seat is fixed more or less on most
'bents and they are supposed to suit a wide range if rider sizes by
extending the boom seems to me to be creating a wide range of rider
center of gravity positions relative to the contact patches.

Is this an issue?

Joseph
post #8 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> >
> >
> > I always read 'bent threads because I can always count on the last
> > statement.....uprights by definition, are not 'uncomfortable' and the
> > older you get(I'm 55), it is not automatically important that you get a
> > 'bent....My upright is comfy, I see no need to get a bent because of my
> > upright's comfort or my age...

>
>
>
> My Trek 1000c is the most comfortable upright I've ever had! In two
> months I had 700 miles on it already. But nothing is as comfortable as
> my SMGTe! It's like the difference between night and day.


700 miles for me is about 3 weeks on my upright. Once more, 'bents
answer no question, solve no problem with regard to a well fitting
upright ridden by a cyclist with no physical problems that dictate only
a 'bent ride.
>
> The Trek is now relegated to errand-running in the neighborhood, etc.
> For long rides where I don't have to leave my bike out of site, I am
> definitely riding 'bent!
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> The SMGT is a very rider-centred machine. Touring luggage can have the
> heavy stuff under the rider between the wheels so it has very little
> effect on handling. Only by stacking up weight purely on the back will
> the steering get light.


Ah, well, that was me, then, though my kit weighed no more than eight
pounds, tops.

><SNIP>
>
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

That reminds me...I've always wondered whether athletes tend to wear
themselves out more...I'm definitely athletic compared to the average
American (and *look* like an Olympian -- but had a fat sailor beat me
in a sprint once, fair and square), but maybe it really is old age and
wear and tear that's got me preferring the comfort of my 'bent over the
speed and agility of my upright.



Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
> It is largely a matter of age. If you are indeed an athlete, you may never
> need a recumbent bicycle. But look around you. How many of us are athletes.
> Almost everyone by the time they are in their 50's will benefit from a
> recumbent.
>
> Recumbents are mostly about comfort, but they are also more fun to ride than
> uprights once you get rid of your sport mentality.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
>
> >> The Trek is now relegated to errand-running in the neighborhood, etc.
> >> For long rides where I don't have to leave my bike out of site, I am
> >> definitely riding 'bent!

> >
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> That's a non issue IME. By "stacking up weight" I mean like a week's
> grocery shopping, with cans. 8 lbs on the back shouldn't dent the
> handling at all.


I didn't think it should be a factor, either. Maybe I was too tense in
the shoulders, as you say. I was certainly thrilled by the speeds I
was reaching...until it stopped at 29 mph!!

I love the SMGTe. I hope HP Velo sees fit for a carbon or titanium
version in the future! Surprised they haven't already done so.

Also, I hope in their next (re)iteration they redesign things to allow
for a better fit for standard bike accessories somehow...my CatEye
1000, my AirZound, my Arkel panniers...all do not fit as "cleanly"
out-of-the-box and require a bit of jerry-rigging....

> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
post #12 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Get an M5 from the Netherlands. They are so much faster than uprights
(even without the Aero cap) that it isn't funny anymore.

A few years back during the pro tour Team Time-Trial the builder of the
M50 (Bram Moens) went over the same stretch in his record machine and
got SOLO a time wich was only beat by a few of the best teams. Bram is
a well trained rider, who is over 50 years old.....

Any upright is simply no match against a bent build for speed.
post #13 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

On 12 May 2006 06:38:12 -0700, "john" <jdrew96@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Various posters:
>(In a nutshell; bents are slower than uprights on the flats)
>
>I'm amazed! I've always thought that recumbents were faster everywhere
>except up hill. Why are all absolute top speed records held by bents?
>I've thought it was due to reduced wind resistance due to not having
>both leg & shoulder cross section in the wind. Plus being more fairing
>friendly (what's that called? FF?).


[snip]

>Where did I get the idea they are fast? This doesn't make any sense to
>me, John


Dear John,

[quote myself from another thread]

It's common to assume that recumbents have an aerodynamic
advantage over the traditional diamond frame, but the
advantage is actually limited to fairly extreme recumbents.

You can see some of the surprising details on this speed
calculator page:

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Hovering the mouse over the radio button for the type of
recumbent will pop up a picture that gives an idea of what a
particular model looks like. After selecting a model,
clicking on calculate at the bottom will give a predicted
speed for the default values and the drag area used for the
calculation.


mph frontal type
17.1 4.3433 recumbent long wheel base
17.3 4.7889 df hands on tops
18.5 3.3781 recumbent short wheel base
19.4 3.2559 df hands on drops
20.5 2.7111 df triathlon bars
21.2 2.1748 recumbent short wheel base racer
22.3 2.0397 df superman position
23.1 1.5504 recumbent lowracer


Obviously, these are idealized guides to what a particular
bike and rider will do, with different tires and
transmission efficiences affecting things. But for the same
rider and power, it takes a recumbent that stresses speed
instead of comfort to improve on the aerodynamics of an
ordinary diamond frame:

http://www.bicycleman.com/history/im...-record_lg.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
post #14 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

Edward Dolan wrote:

> By the way, I am not so sure about there being no connection between bike
> saddles and prostate cancer and/or testicular cancer.


It's about as accurate as the claim that riding a recumbent causes your
brain to fall out. The evidence to support either supposition is about
as strong.
post #15 of 24

Re: Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

On 12 May 2006 15:14:28 -0700, "Tuschinski"
<loknor@gmail.com> wrote:

>Actually Carl... These numbers are rather favorable to the Bents.
>
>1. A RACE-upright ridden with hands in the drops marginably beats a
>Commuter-bent. How long can you ride with your hands in the drops? I am
>a pretty good cyclists (decent course experience) and I cannot ride a
>whole hour in the drops on my course-bike without getting
>uncomfortable. Even pro's dont ride hours upon ends in the drops.


[snip]

Dear T.,

I tend to think of my upright as a touring bike, not a
racer. Someone will probably remind us that one advantage of
an upright touring bike is that you can ride on the drops,
on the hoods, on the bars, or sitting up no-hands, while a
recumbent offers pretty much only one position.

But I ride on the drops pretty much all the time, barring
the rare tailwind as I head up the ridge west of town on my
daily ride. It's only only 45-50 minutes at my normal pace,
but I occasionally do it twice a day, once with visiting
friends who like the scenery, and then again lest my
spreadsheet suffer from lack of data.

I never found standing up and bending over on trials
motorcycles uncomfortable, either, even on long trail rides,
probably because that's what I grew up riding.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
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