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Re: I crash into religion - Page 14

post #196 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

In article <1148062032.215895.297190@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
>
> Java Man Espressopithecus wrote:
> > In article <1148061454.068955.26540@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > # Hmmm, "from whom shall I take my English grammar cues?"
> > >

> > Not from you.

>
> Ah, I see, when your typo gambit blew up in your own face, it was time
> to move to derogatory remark without substance mode. Forget the fact
> that Shakespeare and many others disagree with you too.
>

When you post a list of those who rely on your advice about grammar,
I'll consider taking my cues from you. (Shall I include Shakespeare
among them?) Until then, your error-laden bluster on the superiority of
English grammar as practiced in Britain is not convincing evidence of
your skill.

Rick
post #197 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

In article <4d6fqmF1938qiU1@individual.net>, junk@raven-family.com
says...
> Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> >
> > On a lighter note:
> >
> > "Statistics are like a bikini -- what they reveal is suggestive, but
> > what they conceal is vital."
> >
> > "A statistician can have his head in an oven and his feet in ice, and he
> > will say that on the average he feels fine."
> >
> > "A statistician is a person who draws a mathematically precise line from
> > an unwarranted assumption to a foregone conclusion."
> >
> > "Half the people in the world are below average."
> >
> > "Numbers are like people; torture them enough and they'll tell you
> > anything."
> >
> > "Statistics are to be used as a drunk man uses lamp posts: for support
> > rather than illumination."
> >

>
> Don't forget:
>
> "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
> his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
> Leonardo da Vinci
>

He clearly didn't know many lawyers. ;-)

Rick
post #198 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> In article <1148062032.215895.297190@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> >
> > Java Man Espressopithecus wrote:
> > > In article <1148061454.068955.26540@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > > # Hmmm, "from whom shall I take my English grammar cues?"
> > > >
> > > Not from you.

> >
> > Ah, I see, when your typo gambit blew up in your own face, it was time
> > to move to derogatory remark without substance mode. Forget the fact
> > that Shakespeare and many others disagree with you too.
> >

> When you post a list of those who rely on your advice about grammar,
> I'll consider taking my cues from you. (Shall I include Shakespeare
> among them?) Until then, your error-laden bluster on the superiority of
> English grammar as practiced in Britain is not convincing evidence of
> your skill.


What a load of baloney and diversion. You are still fleeing from the
point, that the so-called error you laughed about is in fact found in
the works of Shakespeare, not to mention the works of others of great
stature. I didn't tell you to take advice from me: I said, who shall
*I* take my advice from- the greatest English writers, or Java Man?
You then meant to respond that you would not be taking advice from me
(if not clear from the context, then by your own admission in your
following statement above)- but unfortunately, in trying to express
that thought, you made a grammatical blunder.
post #199 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
>>
>> "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
>> his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
>> Leonardo da Vinci
>>

> He clearly didn't know many lawyers. ;-)
>


Au contraire, the man who anticipated the modern helicopter and tank
would seem to have anticipated the modern lawyer too ;-)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
post #200 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

In article <4d6g52F18uju8U1@individual.net>,
Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.com> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> >
> > From an etymological dictionary:
> >
> > borough, burgh, burg, ..., burglar.
> > ....
> > 6. The medieval Latin _burgus_, a fortified place (esp
> > town) has a derivative agent _burgator_, with variations
> > _burglator_, _burgulator_, with -l- perhaps suggested
> > (Webster) by that of L _latro_, a thief: _burgulator_
> > looks suspiciously like a presumed _burgilatro_, a city
> > thief: a burglar is an essentialy urban malefactor. Burgle
> > is a back formation; burglary merely adds noun suffix -y.
> >

>
> 'Tis also in the Oxford English Dictionary, the reference for the
> English English language (as opposed to the American English Language)
>
>
> burglarize, v.
> U.S.
>
> trans. To rob burglariously; to break into by violence for the
> purpose of theft. Also intr.
> 1871 Southern Mag. Apr. (Schele de Vere), The Yankeeisms donated,
> collided, and burglarized, have been badly used up by an English
> magazine-writer. 1876 Congress Rec. July 4419/2, I found that the house
> of a lady moving in good society had been burglarized. 1883 TALMAGE in
> Chr. Globe 13 Sept. 829/2 The man who had a contempt for a petty theft
> will burglarise the wheat-bin of a nation. 1884 Boston (Mass.) Jrnl. 7
> Feb. 1 The house of John Fuller was burglarized on Wednesday night. 1926
> J. BLACK You can't Win xi. 142 It was built to be burglarized. 1947
> Jrnl. Crim. Law & Criminol. Nov.-Dec. 319, I tried to resist the urge to
> get outside and burglarize.
>
> Hence {sm}burglarizing vbl. n.
> 1872 SCHELE DE VERE Americanisms 655 In like manner the burglar's
> occupation has been designated as burglarizing. 1888 Merchant Traveler
> (Farmer), ŒWhat have you been doing for a living lately?¹.. ŒBurglarizing.¹


Not taking sides. The etymological dictionary I quote is `English English'.

> --
> Tony
>
> "Two nations divided by a common language"
> - Winston Churchill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
George Bernard Shaw, an Irishman.

--
Michael Press
post #201 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

In article <1148064114.691440.204010@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
>
> Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> > In article <1148062032.215895.297190@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > >
> > > Java Man Espressopithecus wrote:
> > > > In article <1148061454.068955.26540@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > > > # Hmmm, "from whom shall I take my English grammar cues?"
> > > > >
> > > > Not from you.
> > >
> > > Ah, I see, when your typo gambit blew up in your own face, it was time
> > > to move to derogatory remark without substance mode. Forget the fact
> > > that Shakespeare and many others disagree with you too.
> > >

> > When you post a list of those who rely on your advice about grammar,
> > I'll consider taking my cues from you. (Shall I include Shakespeare
> > among them?) Until then, your error-laden bluster on the superiority of
> > English grammar as practiced in Britain is not convincing evidence of
> > your skill.

>
> What a load of baloney and diversion.


OK, I'll accept that judgement of your posts.

Rick
post #202 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> In article <1148064114.691440.204010@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> >
> > Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> > > In article <1148062032.215895.297190@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > >
> > > > Java Man Espressopithecus wrote:
> > > > > In article <1148061454.068955.26540@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > > > > # Hmmm, "from whom shall I take my English grammar cues?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > Not from you.
> > > >
> > > > Ah, I see, when your typo gambit blew up in your own face, it was time
> > > > to move to derogatory remark without substance mode. Forget the fact
> > > > that Shakespeare and many others disagree with you too.
> > > >
> > > When you post a list of those who rely on your advice about grammar,
> > > I'll consider taking my cues from you. (Shall I include Shakespeare
> > > among them?) Until then, your error-laden bluster on the superiority of
> > > English grammar as practiced in Britain is not convincing evidence of
> > > your skill.

> >
> > What a load of baloney and diversion.

>
> OK, I'll accept that judgement of your posts.


Apart from your evasive snipping, you made another grammatical blunder.
M
post #203 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

In article <1148065397.572637.295560@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
>
> Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> > In article <1148064114.691440.204010@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > >
> > > Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
> > > > In article <1148062032.215895.297190@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > > >
> > > > > Java Man Espressopithecus wrote:
> > > > > > In article <1148061454.068955.26540@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > KingGeorgeXLI@yahoo.fr says...
> > > > > > > # Hmmm, "from whom shall I take my English grammar cues?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Not from you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah, I see, when your typo gambit blew up in your own face, it was time
> > > > > to move to derogatory remark without substance mode. Forget the fact
> > > > > that Shakespeare and many others disagree with you too.
> > > > >
> > > > When you post a list of those who rely on your advice about grammar,
> > > > I'll consider taking my cues from you. (Shall I include Shakespeare
> > > > among them?) Until then, your error-laden bluster on the superiority of
> > > > English grammar as practiced in Britain is not convincing evidence of
> > > > your skill.
> > >
> > > What a load of baloney and diversion.

> >
> > OK, I'll accept that judgement of your posts.

>
> Apart from your evasive snipping, you made another grammatical blunder.


Thanks, nothing like advice from an expert.

Rick
post #204 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

Michael Press wrote:
>
>>
>> "Two nations divided by a common language"
>> - Winston Churchill

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> George Bernard Shaw, an Irishman.
>


Seems uncertain. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations has it under
Misquotations and says it is attributed to GBS but not found in his
published works. It also refers to a Wilde quotation. Others reference
it variously to published work by Wilde, Russell, Dylan Thomas while the
Times has attributed it to Churchill.
http://www1.btwebworld.com/quote-unquote/p0000149.htm

So about as clear as the answer to the helmet question here ;-)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
post #205 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

In article <4d6764F18ndfvU1@individual.net>, Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
>Sorni wrote:
>> David Damerell wrote:
>>
>>> I mean, you _are_ slipping towards a position like the 85% of drivers
>>> who think their driving is above average...

>>
>> Take 100 drivers. 65 of them are boring and law-abiding. 20 of them
>> speed occasionally but otherwise exercise good judgment and skill and
>> have never been in or caused an accident. And then there are *15*
>> miscreants who pass wildly on the right, blow through stop signs and
>> red lights, and generally endanger the public on a daily basis.

>
>Sure. I doubt that this is the case, though. Is there any reason why, unlike
>most measures of human properties and abilities, driving skills should not
>roughly fit a normal curve?


Another survey showed 74% of drivers think they are "safer than most
other drivers". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4241215.stm
Let's see Sorni try and come up with a distribution where 74% of the
population is above the median.
post #206 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

Alan Braggins wrote:
>
> Another survey showed 74% of drivers think they are "safer than most
> other drivers". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4241215.stm
> Let's see Sorni try and come up with a distribution where 74% of the
> population is above the median.


If its in their judgement it'll be good enough for Sorni; having the
median at 50% is just another lie of statistics designed to mislead
people from the true faith ;-)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
post #207 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

p.k. wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>>
>> Well why don't you do that some of us here have done and go out and
>> read the research for yourself instead of expecting to be spoonfed
>> it. You are happy to snipe at the data without having bothered to
>> read the research in the first place. Your arguments might then be
>> better informed and credible for a change.

>
> FYI I have read much of the research on the net, but not that bit in enough
> detail to know that precise bit of the methodology.


IIRC you hadn't read TRT the other day - probably the single most
influential paper in the whole helmet saga - but then you appear to
have read only the research on the web, not the research in the field.
Have you read TRT, Mok, Hewson, Robinson, Wardlaw, Rodgers or any of the
other key research that is either not on the web on on the web through a
subscription?

>
> I take it you have that information to hand - I'd be everso grateful for a
> link to it.
>


I guess I could link you to a jpg of the papers in my hand.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
post #208 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <dp3bg.3840$G95.1042@tornado.socal.rr.com>, Sorni
> ('soryousucknyoureallyreallysucki@san.rr.com') wrote:
>
> > So someone, say, whose house has been burglarized 4 times in the last
> > 18 months

>
> Oh, for heaven's sake, I know this group is not the right place for
> grammar flames, but what is this nonsense of turning a verb into a noun
> and back into a verb again all about?
>
> There is a verb to burgle. Consequently, someone who burgles is a
> burglar, just as someone who walks is a walker, someone who runs is a
> runner, someone who reads is a reader. When you walk down to the shops
> in the morning, has the distance been 'walkerized'? When you've finished
> reading this post, has the post been 'readerized'?
>
> Obviously not. A distance that's been walked has been walked. A post
> that's been read has been read. And a house that's been burgled has been
> burgled. It's a simple, ordinary English verb, and the simple ordinary
> rules of English verbs apply.
>
> I expect you use 'utilize', as well.
>
> --
> simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> The Conservative Party is now dead. The corpse may still be
> twitching, but resurrection is not an option - unless Satan
> chucks them out of Hell as too objectionable even for him.


Dear Simon,

"We would wish to remark to the imaginative reporter that his constant
use of the verb "to burglarize," in its various moods and tenses, may
in time become wearisome to the strictly etymological mind. It was
doubtless superhumanly funny when first invented, but its persistent
introduction into grave composition may possibly subject the American
press to aspersion and derision abroad, where the ways that are dark of
our native humor are not clearly understood. We can only suggest to
publishers that any reporter adjudged guilty of writing it should be
instantly exterminated by some one of the processes made popular by the
gentle Apache--ripping open with an iron garden-rake, for example."

--from a 7-page sample of a complete newspaper column, "News Letter,"
March 18th, 1871, in "The Ambrose Bierce Satanic Reader," edited by
Jerome Hopkins

Like most grammatical quibbling, Bierce's enjoyable little piece is
full of unconscious examples of what it complains about.

But it should cheer you up to see that your quibble is at least 135
years old.

I look forward to your exegesis on whether a shiny metal object has
been simoned, simonised, or simonized.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
post #209 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
<snip>
> ...publishers that any reporter adjudged guilty of writing [burglarize]
> should be
> instantly exterminated by some one of the processes made popular by
> the gentle Apache--ripping open with an iron garden-rake, for
> example."
>
> --from a 7-page sample of a complete newspaper column, "News Letter,"
> March 18th, 1871, in "The Ambrose Bierce Satanic Reader," edited by
> Jerome Hopkins
>
> Like most grammatical quibbling, Bierce's enjoyable little piece is
> full of unconscious examples of what it complains about.
>

I'd discount what Bierce has to say on grounds of first name alone, to be
honest.
--
Ambrose
post #210 of 231

Re: I crash into religion

in message <1148072890.740260.282690@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
carlfogel@comcast.net ('carlfogel@comcast.net') wrote:

> I look forward to your exegesis on whether a shiny metal object has
> been simoned, simonised, or simonized.


Simony, my dear boy, is a sin.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Good grief, I can remember when England won the Ashes.
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