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Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

Please see below an extract from the lastest St Kilda Cycling Club newsletter:

CLEARWAY ON WORLD’S PREMIER CYCLING ROUTE

On any given weekend – even in the middle of winter – thousands of cyclists use Beach Road for training and social rides. For the past three years Beach Road Cyclist (BRC) – a group of racing, training and general cycling enthusiasts – has led a strong campaign to have the views of on-road cyclists voiced. Finally, following many reports and discussion groups involving Vic Roads, Victoria Police, BRC and the local councils, Port Phillip and Bayside Councils have given in- principle approval to a clearway on Beach Road during weekends between the hours of 6:00am – 10:00am. Both Councils agreed that the establishment of a clearway is the best solution to safely accommodate all Beach Road users during peak cycling times over the weekend.





A FANTASTIC RESULT FOR BRC AND ITS SUPPORTERS!



HOWEVER…


The clearway will only be truly successful if Kingston Council also approves implementation through its section of Beach Road. Kingston Council is meeting at the end of the month and has requested input from the local community and users of Beach Road before it makes its final decision. As things stand the current clearway could only operate from the Port Melbourne end of Beach Road through to Charman Road in Beaumaris, but to be effective it also needs to run through Kingston as far as the Mordialloc roundabout – so here’s where you come in…


If you live in Port Phillip, Bayside or Kingston:



Write to the local newspapers



Contact your MPs and local councillors to state your support for the clearway from Port Melbourne through to Mordialloc from 6:00am – 10:00am on weekends.



If you don’t live in the Beach Road area, contact your friends who do and ask them to lobby on your behalf. All riders should contact Port Phillip and Bayside Councils to express their appreciation and support of the initiative.



This is a very important issue that affects all Beach Road cyclists, from social through to professional, and we need to take action now to create a safe environment for ALL road users.



FOR FURTHER INFORMATION GO TO www.beachroadcyclist.com
post #2 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

it's obviously a good idea, but I can see some problems in the middle of summer with heaps of families wanting an early start to their beachy Sunday

I reckon the inside lane between Mordy and (at least) Bay Rd should be for parked cars and cyclists only. Heading outbound, after Bay Rd., the parking restrictions end (even in peak hour), so the inside lane is blocked off for most of the way, anyway.

I do some of the group rides down there, and love it, but when it comes down to it, I reckon the big bunches are just too dangerous after about 7am.
There's no excuse for cyclists to be in the right lane.
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by 531Aussie
I reckon the big bunches are just too dangerous after about 7am.
Really? I don't think the time of day has anything to do with it . I reckon big bunches are ALWAYS potentially dangerous unless you're at the front!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 531Aussie
There's no excuse for cyclists to be in the right lane.
Unless of course they need to overtake a parked car that is! In my view, the main problem is that bunches make no effort to signal that they are veering right when overtaking parked cars/slower riders and that's what makes motorists sh1tty...
post #4 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
Really? I don't think the time of day has anything to do with it . I reckon big bunches are ALWAYS potentially dangerous unless you're at the front!...
nah, I meant for other people: motorists, pedestrians, those kite surfers in Hampton trying to get all their crap off their car roof! Big groups are always dangerous for us. The Tuesday night group, that I admit I've enjoyed doing a million times, is a menace in the warmer months. I've done it on hot days with a big summer south-easterly, where we've been ploughing through Hampton, Sandy, Brighton, etc, at 55kph+!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
Unless of course they need to overtake a parked car that is! In my view, the main problem is that bunches make no effort to signal that they are veering right when overtaking parked cars/slower riders and that's what makes motorists sh1tty...
that's the main problem. If a group is so big that it can't get around a parked car without blocking the right lane, then I reckon it's not fair for the motorists. I've been on the Tuesday night ride when cars have been stuck behind us from the Highett Rd. to South Rd. Having said that, I love doing that ride
post #5 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by 531Aussie
nah, I meant for other people: motorists, pedestrians, those kite surfers in Hampton trying to get all their crap off their car roof! Big groups are always dangerous for us. The Tuesday night group, that I admit I've enjoyed doing a million times, is a menace in the warmer months. I've done it on hot days with a big summer south-easterly, where we've been ploughing through Hampton, Sandy, Brighton, etc, at 55kph+!!



that's the main problem. If a group is so big that it can't get around a parked car without blocking the right lane, then I reckon it's not fair for the motorists. I've been on the Tuesday night ride when cars have been stuck behind us from the Highett Rd. to South Rd. Having said that, I love doing that ride
What we have to also remember is that on Sun and Sat mornings, we have well over 100 bunches and in the summer well over 8ooo riders, you can imagine how infuriating that is when every time you come to the back of a parked car the bunch blocks the right hand lane if you are a car,, times that by 100. You can see why cars get so annoyed {not that I condone it.} Yes and in some sections of beach rd even one rider can sometime might have to encroach onto the right hand lane if he does not want to ride in the “death zone” is what I like to call the space that a car door takes up when opened as outside the Brighton baths. The main problem with a lot of the lobbying that has been done in the past is that it has no input from bunch, racing and club cyclist that one of the main reason we started beach rd cyclist…I encourage you read the report; it will answer a lot of your questions.

If you have any further questions I will Endeavour to answer them,

Thanks for posting the letter up on the forum much appreciated, I think we have a great opportunity to reduce road trauma on beach rd and reduce the agro is that simple.

As Inspector Allan Carlie said at one of our meetings reading an email that he had just send of to??? “we have to stop burring our heads in the sand and come up we intelligent effective solutions to the issues on beach rd” { from my meeting notes} Bayside bicycle reference group, he has been instrumental in getting this clearway.
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

I think the moral of the story is that you're never going to please everyone. I agree that a clearway 6-10am at weekends is a good compromise, as you should endeavour to ride as early as possible anyway.

I think it's become an unwritten rule (although some do ignore it) that you should be off Beach Rd by ~7:00am Mon-Fri. If that means leaving home at 5:30am or earlier, then so be it. Despite the fact that it's legal, I disagree with riders going two abreast in peak times.

Despite the 'Code of Conduct' supposedly coming into being a few years back, it still irks me to see some riders running red lights and not giving way at roundabouts. The other practice that annoys the bejesus out of me is this ridiculous Beach Rd habit of the front pair 'splitting' when they want a rest, instead of the rider on the right rolling forward and left and the right line moving up one. Suddenly widening the bunch to 4 lines (albeit only at the front) is nuts and needs to be stopped in my view.

Passing cars stopped at a red so they have to overtake you all over again is also a big no-no that wins us no friends behind the wheel...

I know there are some incarnations of it in existence already but someone should publish a simple guide to road riding in Melbourne and the bike shops should commit to giving it to (and actually explaining its contents) to everyone who buys a road/commuting bike.

<Stanners hops off his soap box and flicks on last nights Tour replay...>
post #7 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
I think the moral of the story is that you're never going to please everyone. I agree that a clearway 6-10am at weekends is a good compromise, as you should endeavour to ride as early as possible anyway.

I think it's become an unwritten rule (although some do ignore it) that you should be off Beach Rd by ~7:00am Mon-Fri. If that means leaving home at 5:30am or earlier, then so be it. Despite the fact that it's legal, I disagree with riders going two abreast in peak times.

Despite the 'Code of Conduct' supposedly coming into being a few years back, it still irks me to see some riders running red lights and not giving way at roundabouts. The other practice that annoys the bejesus out of me is this ridiculous Beach Rd habit of the front pair 'splitting' when they want a rest, instead of the rider on the right rolling forward and left and the right line moving up one. Suddenly widening the bunch to 4 lines (albeit only at the front) is nuts and needs to be stopped in my view.

Passing cars stopped at a red so they have to overtake you all over again is also a big no-no that wins us no friends behind the wheel...

I know there are some incarnations of it in existence already but someone should publish a simple guide to road riding in Melbourne and the bike shops should commit to giving it to (and actually explaining its contents) to everyone who buys a road/commuting bike.

<Stanners hops off his soap box and flicks on last nights Tour replay...>
Don’t worry about getting of your soap box,, I have worn a groove in mine,,

I agree 100% with what you are saying , I think you have put your name on our mailing list, at beachrdcyclist.com.au we have plans and we will keep you informed.
cheers
P.S what the hell happen to "Mayo" on that climb last night, blew big time,,,,
post #8 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
I think it's become an unwritten rule (although some do ignore it) that you should be off Beach Rd by ~7:00am Mon-Fri.
Why? When I'm riding in peak hour traffic (ie. mon-fri am and pm, Pacific Hwy, Sydney) I MAKE SURE I'M AGGRESSIVELY taking a whole lane by myself where I'm not likely to be holding up traffic, purely for personal safety. For climbs where I'm obviously a little slower than passing traffic I try to keep up or give enough room for cars to pass easily if there's room.

And the message from motorists is clear: if you are able to keep traffic flowing freely then you are welcome to join the commuter race to/from work. If you're a lardarse then expect to bear the brunt of an impatient cager's rage. Getting to work faster than the next guy is ultra-imporant you know



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
The other practice that annoys the bejesus out of me is this ridiculous Beach Rd habit of the front pair 'splitting' when they want a rest, instead of the rider on the right rolling forward and left and the right line moving up one.
Again, I don't know the road but this is normal practise in any two line peleton. The manouvre you describe, whilst probably better, is difficult to coordinate (especially for newbs and turks) and could pose a greater risk than than splitting which maintains a natural flow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
Passing cars stopped at a red so they have to overtake you all over again is also a big no-no that wins us no friends behind the wheel...
Now you are talking mass re-education. It is written into the AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES that bicycle riders can pass cars on the left to join at the head of the queue stopped at traffic signals or signs. And we all do it.

So you want an exception for Beach Rd? To you and me it's natural that you don't necessarily need to follow to a rule, rather that you work with the environment that you train/commute/play in. For the other 80% of riders it might not be so obvious. Problem is that they come from different clubs or even sports (if they're in a sporting club at all) and it's difficult to communicate an idea like this on masse.

I hope that the BRC is not working in isolation from existing sporting bodies and bike shops if proposals like this are 'carried'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
I know there are some incarnations of it in existence already but someone should publish a simple guide to road riding in Melbourne and the bike shops should commit to giving it to (and actually explaining its contents) to everyone who buys a road/commuting bike.
<==staggers to his chair and collapses in a screaming heap of hysterical laughter.

The guide is already published. It's called the Australian Road Rules.

The thing that needs to be published is the Humans' Natural Guide to Cooperation and Respect. Unfortunatley it's guaranteed to be a "Worst Seller"
post #9 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

well i know one thing for sure that

even if it was teh worlds worst seller id still want it on itunes read aloud by william shatner


anyway

what about applying to VICRoads for some road concessions on the days you require if you have over 8000 people that surely means that you have some chance at them looking at you seriously

i agree that going to council was a first step but why dont you all be represented by one lobby group and then that lobby group ask for some permanent concession from a state body rather than going to council ?

m,aybe ive got wronmgim here in sydney and i knowe that if 8000 people use as is stated in this thread then it would get some serious notoriety if they spoke to the RTA or BNSW

my 1.5 cents worth

later reduced to 1.0 cents thanks to new i.r laws
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
Why? When I'm riding in peak hour traffic (ie. mon-fri am and pm, Pacific Hwy, Sydney) I MAKE SURE I'M AGGRESSIVELY taking a whole lane by myself where I'm not likely to be holding up traffic, purely for personal safety.
Knock yourself out, pal. If you decide you want to take up the whole left lane in peak hour and completely p*ss off hundreds of motorists, please - don't let my opions hold you back. Sure, any cyclist with some nouse takes up as much as possible of the left lane for safety when riding solo, but I am contending that it's pretty damn stupid and selfish to do it in 'peak hour.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
And the message from motorists is clear: if you are able to keep traffic flowing freely then you are welcome to join the commuter race to/from work. If you're a lardarse then expect to bear the brunt of an impatient cager's rage. Getting to work faster than the next guy is ultra-imporant you know
I don't even know what that means...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
Again, I don't know the road but this is normal practise in any two line peleton. The manouvre you describe, whilst probably better, is difficult to coordinate (especially for newbs and turks) and could pose a greater risk than than splitting which maintains a natural flow.
You're kidding, right? The 'natural flow' of a two line bunch is to keep it in exactly that - two lines. 4 bikes, side by side, doesn't fit in one lane. Simple. We're talking about a 'delayed roll' here, i.e. the RH front rider rolls over say every 5 mins. I do agree that a 'constant roll' is a bloody nightmare with newbies however!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
Now you are talking mass re-education. It is written into the AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES that bicycle riders can pass cars on the left to join at the head of the queue stopped at traffic signals or signs. And we all do it.
You're mistaken. We don't all do it. You obviously do. We're talking about a major cycling route in a capital city, so naturally I wouldn't think for a minute that CBD bike couriers, etc would or should adopt this practice but for everyone else should.

If there's a bike lane, it's no problem to move forward at lights, but on a normal road it is considered a basic courtesy to motorists to stay behind them. If they've passed you, they've 'earned' the right to stay ahead of you. Why don't you get in your car and drive along a popular cycling route and see how you like having to accelerate like buggery and veer right at every set of red lights you come to because all the cyclists you passed at the last intersection have weaved there way past you again while you were stopped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
and it's difficult to communicate an idea like this on masse.
Funny, I thought there was something kicking around called the Internet. Oh, and the expression is 'en masse', meaning 'all together', which is what we should be if we want to curb what seems to be an ever-increasing number of cycling fatalities in Australia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
<==staggers to his chair and collapses in a screaming heap of hysterical laughter. The guide is already published. It's called the Australian Road Rules.
No, there actually IS a published document:
http://www.bikenow.com.au/tac/documents/coc.pdf
My point is that it should be explained and given to EVERYONE who buys a bike, as opposed to gathing dust in some dark corner of most bike shops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jock.c
The thing that needs to be published is the Humans' Natural Guide to Cooperation and Respect. Unfortunatley it's guaranteed to be a "Worst Seller"
Clearly, you won't be the author of such a document. The road is shared between motorists and cyclists. BRC, me, nor anyone else wants special treatment for cyclists, Beach Rd, or anything else - only to reduce serious injuries and fatalities to cyclists (a 39 y.o. man was killed in Essendon this week after being hit by a car).

Out.

Stanners
post #11 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeytown
well i know one thing for sure that

even if it was teh worlds worst seller id still want it on itunes read aloud by william shatner


anyway

what about applying to VICRoads for some road concessions on the days you require if you have over 8000 people that surely means that you have some chance at them looking at you seriously

i agree that going to council was a first step but why dont you all be represented by one lobby group and then that lobby group ask for some permanent concession from a state body rather than going to council ?

m,aybe ive got wronmgim here in sydney and i knowe that if 8000 people use as is stated in this thread then it would get some serious notoriety if they spoke to the RTA or BNSW

my 1.5 cents worth

later reduced to 1.0 cents thanks to new i.r laws
The Bicycle refrence group is made up of an Ispector from Vic Pol plus give or take 3to4 senior traffic sergt, A very senior Vic Roads manager plus his staff , 3 Councils and specialist staff , cycling groups plus shops plus cycle sport{ Cycling Australia}, Alferd Health Senior ermerg director, independent traffic consultants. work started back in early 2003.
post #12 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Stanners, you make some good points and some that I don't agree with.

It's not worth polluting what is a good idea (ie. the provision of bike lanes for the Hell Ride) by inciting a bitter argument or flame war just because someone has a different opinion to yours, so don't do it.

Good luck with it, hope the other council votes in favour of it, and enjoy your riding.
post #13 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

I'm also not big on claiming a lane on very busy roads in peak hour, mainly coz it's too dangerous. When i was 21 it probably wouldn't have bothered me, but now I'm older and more sensible. I do it on Beach Rd., and other quite roads with 2 or lanes, but not very busy roads.

It's one thing if the rider has a tailwind, and is doing 45kph+, but if they're loaded with paniers, and doing 15kph, then they're just about as much of an obstruction as a parked car.
post #14 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

are we listing our Beach Road pet peeves?

I ***** me when, say, 2 guys are riding side by side, then they just swing around the parked cars, apparently without even thinking about how they'll be impeding the right hand lane of traffic -- not even so much as a look over the shoulder.

Same thing happens on the short section of one lane traffic, near Charman Rd. (inbound), where the bike lane runs for about 100m. I'll often see 2 guys, side by side, putting along at 25kph, with the outside guy blocking the cars behind him. I reckon if there's only 2 or 3 guys riding through that section, they can get organized to stay within the lane. Same goes for much of Station St.

How about cars "half laning" past parked cars. Best example is the last couple of kms before Mordy, heading outbound. Parked cars prevent drivers using the left lane, but they'll drive half in the left an half in the right, impeding both the cyclists and cars in the right lane!!!

Hmmmmm...what else? I could right a book on Beach Rd. I've been riding up and down there for 20 bloody years!!

I hate it when it's dead quiet, and there are (for eg) 3 cars coming up from the Mordy lights (inbound), and they all have to drive in the gutter???!!! Two wide lanes, 3 cars on the road, and they have to drive in the gravel where I am!!!


One more little one : I've noticed a slight trend developing of people jogging on the bloody road between the Mentone Pub and Parkdale. I'll be struggling to hold my line on the inside 50cm (!!) of road, with cars shooting past me, then I've gotta swerve around some jogger in the dark coming right at me, whom I only spot in the last second!! If I was doing 50kph with a big south-easterly, he'd be toast. Crikey! I know the beach is nice, but there's a gazillion bloody footpaths suitable for jogging. I fairdinkum nearly hit a guy jogging at me in the dark on Reserve Rd., near the golf course -- I couldn't believe it!
post #15 of 19

Re: Beach Road Cyclist - Clearway Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanners77
The other practice that annoys the bejesus out of me is this ridiculous Beach Rd habit of the front pair 'splitting' when they want a rest, instead of the rider on the right rolling forward and left and the right line moving up one. Suddenly widening the bunch to 4 lines (albeit only at the front) is nuts and needs to be stopped in my view.
replay...>
I've seen 'better' riders do this smoothly, but 'newbies' get it all messed up; take 5 mins to change, and are all over the road.


Similarly, I often see (for eg) 2 riders, once again, side by side, taking up the whole left lane!! I understand it's preferable to discourage drivers using the left lane (off-peak times, of course ), but the guy on the right will leave no room in the left lane for riders passing on the right. It's as if they've never been overtaked by another cyclist before. At times I've been tempted to plough through the middle of them
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