Being thin does not automatically mean you are not fat

On May 12, 3:38 am, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:

> Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.

Likewise, even people with high BMI scores can have surprisingly low
levels of fat deposits. It's why BMI is junk science. Height, weight,
next. No attempt to understand composition. And it's ALL about
composition.

"Even people with normal BMI scores can have
surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies. " yeah, you're
completely right. I had a chance to get to know about it becouse I had
overweight problem. I have been on diet and I was exercising for 2
years. I've lost almost 40 kg. It's big succes for me but I feel a
little bit unconvinient. In some places of my body I still have fat
deposites.. and If I have to be honest it makes me furious. Its also
worth to say that now I have "ideal" propotion between my height and
weight. Probably I will have to do exercises for couple of months, and
maybe then I would be completely satisfied.

On May 12, 7:29 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> "Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies. " yeah, you're
> completely right. I had a chance to get to know about it becouse I had
> overweight problem. I have been on diet and I was exercising for 2
> years. I've lost almost 40 kg. It's big succes for me but I feel a
> little bit unconvinient. In some places of my body I still have fat
> deposites.. and If I have to be honest it makes me furious. Its also
> worth to say that now I have "ideal" propotion between my height and
> weight. Probably I will have to do exercises for couple of months, and
> maybe then I would be completely satisfied.

That's why when I lost 14 kg under Low Carb, Low Fat, High Fibre, High
Protein, I didn't take it for granted even though I have an Asian bmi
of 19. I went for a blood test and a health screening.

XiaoZhen wrote:
:: That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging
:: at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12, 2007)
::
:: Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with
:: MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store their
:: fat. They discovered through their data that people who are slim
:: through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major deposits of
:: internal fats.
::
:: Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
:: tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
:: that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
:: surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.

Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would appear
from external observation, nothing about this says anything about their
health. Being skinny fat probably has some advantages over carrying around
an extra 100 lbs of fat.

Just having fat on your body doesn't say jack about your state of health.

Why do you insist on equating fat = bad health?

"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> XiaoZhen wrote:
> :: That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging
> :: at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12, 2007)
> ::
> :: Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with
> :: MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store their
> :: fat. They discovered through their data that people who are slim
> :: through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major deposits of
> :: internal fats.
> ::
> :: Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> :: tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> :: that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> :: surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.
>
> Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would appear
> from external observation, nothing about this says anything about their
> health. Being skinny fat probably has some advantages over carrying
> around an extra 100 lbs of fat.
>
> Just having fat on your body doesn't say jack about your state of health.
>
> Why do you insist on equating fat = bad health?
>

Why are you so defensive about this subject?

Are you still as fat as you were three years ago?

On May 12, 9:09 pm, "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> XiaoZhen wrote:
>
> :: That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging
> :: at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12, 2007)
> ::
> :: Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with
> :: MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store their
> :: fat. They discovered through their data that people who are slim
> :: through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major deposits of
> :: internal fats.
> ::
> :: Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> :: tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> :: that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> :: surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.
>
> Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would appear
> from external observation, nothing about this says anything about their
> health. Being skinny fat probably has some advantages over carrying around
> an extra 100 lbs of fat.
>
> Just having fat on your body doesn't say jack about your state of health.
>
> Why do you insist on equating fat = bad health?


In one of your post in "Downfall of Low Carb", you replied,


>XiaoZhen wrote:


>:: The US body fat percentage and body mass index says anyone with a BMI
>:: of 25 to 29.9 is considered overweight. Anyone with a BMI over 30 is
>:: obese. For Singapore Asians, a BMI of 21 to 26.9 is overweight. A
>:: BMI of over 27 is obese.

>As soon as you start yapping about BMI, you lose credibility. BMI is a
>mostly nonsense metric for health. Bodyfat % would be way more meaningful,
>but it's harder to get.


>But as soon as we start reducing people and matters about their health to
>simple-to-get-numbers, we start spewing BS.


You wrote that Bodyfat% is more meaningful, yet in this post you
wrote
>Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would appear
> from external observation, nothing about this says anything about their
> health.


Which is which, I am puzzled.

jcderkoeing wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
:: news:[email protected]...
::: XiaoZhen wrote:
::::: That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular
::::: imaging at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12,
::::: 2007)
:::::
::::: Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people
::::: with MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store
::::: their fat. They discovered through their data that people who
::::: are slim through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major
::::: deposits of internal fats.
:::::
::::: Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
::::: tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely
::::: assuming that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI
::::: scores can have surprising levels of fat deposits inside their
::::: bodies.
:::
::: Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would
::: appear from external observation, nothing about this says anything
::: about their health. Being skinny fat probably has some advantages
::: over carrying around an extra 100 lbs of fat.
:::
::: Just having fat on your body doesn't say jack about your state of
::: health.
:::
::: Why do you insist on equating fat = bad health?
:::
::
:: Why are you so defensive about this subject?

Because it's ********.

::
:: Are you still as fat as you were three years ago?

Absolutely not. Still holding tight.

"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jcderkoeing wrote:
> :: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> :: news:[email protected]...
> ::: XiaoZhen wrote:
> ::::: That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular
> ::::: imaging at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12,
> ::::: 2007)
> :::::
> ::::: Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people
> ::::: with MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store
> ::::: their fat. They discovered through their data that people who
> ::::: are slim through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major
> ::::: deposits of internal fats.
> :::::
> ::::: Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> ::::: tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely
> ::::: assuming that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI
> ::::: scores can have surprising levels of fat deposits inside their
> ::::: bodies.
> :::
> ::: Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would
> ::: appear from external observation, nothing about this says anything
> ::: about their health. Being skinny fat probably has some advantages
> ::: over carrying around an extra 100 lbs of fat.
> :::
> ::: Just having fat on your body doesn't say jack about your state of
> ::: health.
> :::
> ::: Why do you insist on equating fat = bad health?
> :::
> ::
> :: Why are you so defensive about this subject?
>
> Because it's ********.

Relatively, yes.

But... Someone with lower bodyfat has a higher probability of being
healthier.

Extremes are bad.

Relatively.


>
> ::
> :: Are you still as fat as you were three years ago?
>
> Absolutely not. Still holding tight.
>

jcderkoeing wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
:: news:[email protected]...
::: jcderkoeing wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email protected]...
:::::: XiaoZhen wrote:
:::::::: That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular
:::::::: imaging at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May
:::::::: 12, 2007)
::::::::
:::::::: Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people
:::::::: with MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people
:::::::: store their fat. They discovered through their data that
:::::::: people who are slim through dieting alone instead of
:::::::: exercising, have major deposits of internal fats.
::::::::
:::::::: Most of us think that only overweight people and people with
:::::::: fat tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into
:::::::: falsely assuming that they are healthy. Even people with
:::::::: normal BMI scores can have surprising levels of fat deposits
:::::::: inside their bodies.
::::::
:::::: Just because these "thin" people may have more bodyfat than would
:::::: appear from external observation, nothing about this says
:::::: anything about their health. Being skinny fat probably has some
:::::: advantages over carrying around an extra 100 lbs of fat.
::::::
:::::: Just having fat on your body doesn't say jack about your state of
:::::: health.
::::::
:::::: Why do you insist on equating fat = bad health?
::::::
:::::
::::: Why are you so defensive about this subject?
:::
::: Because it's ********.
::
:: Relatively, yes.
::
:: But... Someone with lower bodyfat has a higher probability of being
:: healthier.

I do agree with this especially when we are talking in terms of really big
folks. I'm certainly not trying to say there aren't good reasons to lose
weight if you're extremely overweight. I can state many good reasons for
it.

A skinny fat person has far less to worry about than a really fat fat
person, IMO.

::
:: Extremes are bad.
::
:: Relatively.

Agreed.

::
::
:::
:::::
::::: Are you still as fat as you were three years ago?
:::
::: Absolutely not. Still holding tight.

On May 12, 3:38 pm, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
> That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging
> at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12, 2007)
>
> Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with
> MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store their
> fat. They discovered through their data that people who are slim
> through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major deposits of
> internal fats.
>
> Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.


This Straits Times report makes sense to me.

A thin person can have a lot of unhealthy fats residing in the body,
especially around the vital organs. It is probably worse if you are
physically fat.

The Singapore Heart Foundation advises

"What we eat can contribute significantly to our risk of developing
potentially life-threatening, diet-related illnesses such as heart
disease, hypertension, and diabetes. Conversely, following a healthy
and balanced diet can help us to protect ourselves against these
diseases and improve our chances of living a longer and healthier
life.

Key elements of healthy eating include:

Having a well-balanced diet
Limiting fat intake;
Taking less cholesterol;
Monitoring salt intake;
Consuming enough dietary fibre;
Avoiding excessive alcohol consumption. "

The message I get here is don't go extremes, limit the unhealthy food
and eat a well balanced diet.
A well balance diet would mean differently to people suffering from
diabetes and one from hypertension and one eating Low Carb, like me.

Our bodies need body fat for the healthy functioning of the body.
Look at the components of body fat :essential fat and storage fat.
Essential fat is that amount necessary for maintenance of life and
reproductive functions. Storage fat consists of fat accumulation in
adipose tissue, part of which protects internal organs in the chest
and abdomen. In both cases, women have slightly more than men.

The question is how much body fat is good and when it starts to be
dangerous.

On May 12, 7:18 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 12, 3:38 am, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> > tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> > that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> > surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.
>
> Likewise, even people with high BMI scores can have surprisingly low
> levels of fat deposits. It's why BMI is junk science. Height, weight,
> next. No attempt to understand composition. And it's ALL about
> composition.

Like body builders.

On May 12, 7:18 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 12, 3:38 am, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> > tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> > that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> > surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.
>
> Likewise, even people with high BMI scores can have surprisingly low
> levels of fat deposits. It's why BMI is junk science. Height, weight,
> next. No attempt to understand composition. And it's ALL about
> composition.

I read this from Wikipedia :
BMI has become controversial because many people, including
physicians, have come to rely on its apparent numerical "authority"
for medical diagnosis - but that has never been the BMI's purpose. It
is meant to be used as a simple means of classifying sedentary
(physically inactive) individuals with an average body composition.

Bone mass, body muscles, fitness level, gender and ethnicity , even
water weight affect each individual's BMI score. In the case of the
very active and bodybuliders, BMI will no longer be an accurate
measure of one's body fat.

On May 14, 8:54 pm, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 12, 3:38 pm, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > That is according to Dr Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging
> > at Imperial College, London. (The Straits Times, May 12, 2007)
>
> > Since 1994, Dr Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with
> > MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store their
> > fat. They discovered through their data that people who are slim
> > through dieting alone instead of exercising, have major deposits of
> > internal fats.
>
> > Most of us think that only overweight people and people with fat
> > tummies are at risk. So thin people are lulled into falsely assuming
> > that they are healthy. Even people with normal BMI scores can have
> > surprising levels of fat deposits inside their bodies.
>
> This Straits Times report makes sense to me.
>
> A thin person can have a lot of unhealthy fats residing in the body,
> especially around the vital organs. It is probably worse if you are
> physically fat.
>
> The Singapore Heart Foundation advises
>
> "What we eat can contribute significantly to our risk of developing
> potentially life-threatening, diet-related illnesses such as heart
> disease, hypertension, and diabetes. Conversely, following a healthy
> and balanced diet can help us to protect ourselves against these
> diseases and improve our chances of living a longer and healthier
> life.
>
> Key elements of healthy eating include:
>
> Having a well-balanced diet
> Limiting fat intake;
> Taking less cholesterol;
> Monitoring salt intake;
> Consuming enough dietary fibre;
> Avoiding excessive alcohol consumption. "
>
> The message I get here is don't go extremes, limit the unhealthy food
> and eat a well balanced diet.
> A well balance diet would mean differently to people suffering from
> diabetes and one from hypertension and one eating Low Carb, like me.


And for the last 25 years, a "well balanced diet" as recommended by
all the so called health experts, especially folks like the American
Heart Association meant avoiding fat and loading up on those great
carb laden fat free foods. And where has that gotten us? A lot
fatter.

And finally along comes research that shows folks on LC can not only
lose weight, but wind up with improved cholesterol at the same time,
while eating fat. And what does the AHA and similar experts say? Do
they even acknowledge that something here needs to be seriously looked
at? No, they just refuse to even acknowledge it.

And I don't see how you could think you're on a well balanced diet,
when you say you're doing LowCarb, LowFat, High Fiber, Low Calorie
Oh, wait, I remember, because you never defined actual daily limits on
any of those and sort of make it up as you go.





>
> Our bodies need body fat for the healthy functioning of the body.
> Look at the components of body fat :essential fat and storage fat.
> Essential fat is that amount necessary for maintenance of life and
> reproductive functions. Storage fat consists of fat accumulation in
> adipose tissue, part of which protects internal organs in the chest
> and abdomen. In both cases, women have slightly more than men.
>
> The question is how much body fat is good and when it starts to be
> dangerous.

On May 16, 6:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:


> And I don't see how you could think you're on a well balanced diet,
> when you say you're doing LowCarb, LowFat, High Fiber, Low Calorie
> Oh, wait, I remember, because you never defined actual daily limits on
> any of those and sort of make it up as you go.

Trader4:
Maybe you missed out on my reply on May 9. Or remembered wrongly. Here
it is :

>>>>If you claimed to have read some of my blog and How to Start where you
>>>>found my sample menu, you would have read recommendations for
>>>>proportions for protein, vegetables and carbohydrates for each
>>>>individual.

www.lclfhfhphowtostart.blogspot.com

On May 16, 6:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> And for the last 25 years, a "well balanced diet" as recommended by
> all the so called health experts, especially folks like the American
> Heart Association meant avoiding fat and loading up on those great
> carb laden fat free foods. And where has that gotten us? A lot
> fatter.
>
> And finally along comes research that shows folks on LC can not only
> lose weight, but wind up with improved cholesterol at the same time,
> while eating fat. And what does the AHA and similar experts say? Do
> they even acknowledge that something here needs to be seriously looked
> at? No, they just refuse to even acknowledge it.


I agree with you on the health experts' recommendation of "well
balanced diets" and their "food pyrimad".
Looks like after a x number of years, they change again their
recommendations after discovering the pitfalls of their trial. Then
they modify their food pyramid and the cycle repeats.

I don't care what they won't say about Low Carb. I try in my own
little ways.

I too went Low Carb, (to people on Atkins : Not Low Carb, perhaps High
Carb? Funny though, when I go on for days without any carbs except
that on vegetables, just because I take an occassional low fat yoghurt
and dark cholocates) and improved on not only my cholesterol, my
triglycerides level and blood pressure as well.

Similarly, some governments are not banning trans fats, I do not buy
food with trans fats for my family, myself, for people around me. I
explain and urge them and good for them if they listen.

On May 16, 6:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> And I don't see how you could think you're on a well balanced diet,
> when you say you're doing LowCarb, LowFat, High Fiber, Low Calorie


My blog is Low Carb, Low Fat, High Fibre, High Protein. But thank you
for remembering three quarters of it.

On May 15, 9:18 pm, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 16, 6:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > And for the last 25 years, a "well balanced diet" as recommended by
> > all the so called health experts, especially folks like the American
> > Heart Association meant avoiding fat and loading up on those great
> > carb laden fat free foods. And where has that gotten us? A lot
> > fatter.
>
> > And finally along comes research that shows folks on LC can not only
> > lose weight, but wind up with improved cholesterol at the same time,
> > while eating fat. And what does the AHA and similar experts say? Do
> > they even acknowledge that something here needs to be seriously looked
> > at? No, they just refuse to even acknowledge it.
>
> I agree with you on the health experts' recommendation of "well
> balanced diets" and their "food pyrimad".
> Looks like after a x number of years, they change again their
> recommendations after discovering the pitfalls of their trial. Then
> they modify their food pyramid and the cycle repeats.

Yet aren't you the one that cited a heart association recommendation
of a well balanced diet as being key to health? So, I guess you are
saying they are credible as a source that we need a well balanced
diet, yet they are incapable of telling us what that well balanced
diet should be.


>
> I don't care what they won't say about Low Carb. I try in my own
> little ways.
>
> I too went Low Carb, (to people on Atkins : Not Low Carb, perhaps High
> Carb?


Yes, we'll never know till you tell us what you mean by LC will we?


Funny though, when I go on for days without any carbs except
> that on vegetables, just because I take an occassional low fat yoghurt
> and dark cholocates) and improved on not only my cholesterol, my
> triglycerides level and blood pressure as well.


Why would that be funny?

On May 15, 9:22 pm, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 16, 6:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > And I don't see how you could think you're on a well balanced diet,
> > when you say you're doing LowCarb, LowFat, High Fiber, Low Calorie
>
> My blog is Low Carb, Low Fat, High Fibre, High Protein. But thank you
> for remembering three quarters of it.

It's also appears low calorie, because you say to avoid eating too
many calories and the sample menu is low calorie. But you didn't
address the main point of how you reconcile this with being a well
balanced diet. Most of the alleged health experts in favor of "well
balanced diets" would tell you a high protein, low carb, low fat diet
will be harmful to your health.

On May 16, 7:57 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On May 15, 9:22 pm, XiaoZhen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On May 16, 6:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > And I don't see how you could think you're on a well balanced diet,
> > > when you say you're doing LowCarb, LowFat, High Fiber, Low Calorie
>
> > My blog is Low Carb, Low Fat, High Fibre, High Protein. But thank you
> > for remembering three quarters of it.
>
> It's also appears low calorie, because you say to avoid eating too
> many calories and the sample menu is low calorie. But you didn't
> address the main point of how you reconcile this with being a well
> balanced diet. Most of the alleged health experts in favor of "well
> balanced diets" would tell you a high protein, low carb, low fat diet
> will be harmful to your health.

Yes, they would, wouldn't they? Even people who don't read my blog
have told me that. Even you told me that.


>Yet aren't you the one that cited a heart association recommendation
>of a well balanced diet as being key to health? So, I guess you are
>saying they are credible as a source that we need a well balanced
>diet, yet they are incapable of telling us what that well balanced
>diet should be.

The well balanced diet the heart association recommends is to follow a
food pyramid that is very similar to the US food pyramid.
You and I agree that this is not very well balanced, that's why we are
not following this pyramid.

We could debate all day and night and perhaps tomorrow, about what
constitutes a well balanced diet. But I am not interested. I'll
follow my Low Carb, Low Fat, High Fibre, High Protein and you,
Atkins. Goodnight!

And Now, if I will to tell you everything about my blog here, or a
chapter, I might as well post a full chapter here. Which I won't and
shouldn't.