Coffee and running

Gibari wrote:
> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45
> minutes before a run enhances performance, or at least their
> perception of their performance?

Yes, by ensuring I won't require a pit stop on the run. And by
helping motivate my out the door, if and when required.

On Jun 18, 6:31 pm, Gibari <[email protected]> wrote:
> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> their performance? Do any runners feel that it hinders it? Can coffee
> be a useful tool for a runner?

Never tried it, and don't want to. Copious amounts of POST-run coffee
are my specialty.

Bruce

"bjwdad" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 18, 6:31 pm, Gibari <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
>> before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
>> their performance? Do any runners feel that it hinders it? Can coffee
>> be a useful tool for a runner?
>
> Never tried it, and don't want to. Copious amounts of POST-run coffee
> are my specialty.

Caffeine is reputed to "smooth" the transition from glycogen stores to fat
burning. I don't know if this is true, but I'm prepared to believe it for runs
over 1:15 hr.

Information on this would be appreciated.

Espresso addict, Tomasso.

> Bruce

"Gibari" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> their performance?

I have been doing a few cups for 20 years even race mornings. Let's just
say that the caffeine cleans my pipes so I don't have to stop and
fertilize in the middle of my run. I would have to stop drinking coffee
for some numbers of weeks and compare but I don't plan on trying that.
Maybe your very sensitive to caffeine and it gives you some boost. Then
again it may wake you up so you sense your run and perceive a boost.

In my opinion two cups will do nothing unless your hypersensitive to
caffeine. To get any of the alleged lift from caffeine you need about 10
cups of Startbucks boldest blend or a fistful of Nodoze. USATF has some
numbers on the how much caffeine you can have in your system and I think
it's a lot. I could be wrong but caffeine will give some boost to
sprinters and why the USATF lists it as a no-no, at least in some high
volume.

> Can coffee be a useful tool for a runner?

Studies show that Caffeine helps one burn fat in long races like ultras
but you do not a large volume.

In general, if you're looking for a performance boost, training is the
best method.

-Doug

On 2007-06-19, Tomasso <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "bjwdad" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Jun 18, 6:31 pm, Gibari <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
>>> before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
>>> their performance? Do any runners feel that it hinders it? Can coffee
>>> be a useful tool for a runner?
>>
>> Never tried it, and don't want to. Copious amounts of POST-run coffee
>> are my specialty.
>
> Caffeine is reputed to "smooth" the transition from glycogen stores to fat
> burning. I don't know if this is true, but I'm prepared to believe it for runs
> over 1:15 hr.

I think there was a time to exhaustion study that showed that caffeine improved
performance. Test duration was over 1hr.

Costill D, effects of caffeine ingestion on metabolism and exercise performance

Cheers,
--
Elflord

I have to find a bush about half way through my run then.
Definately a diuretic and sometimes a laxative.

(Setting myself up for a typical Bill Davidson reply here.)

On Jun 19, 6:20 am, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Gibari" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> > before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> > their performance?
>
> I have been doing a few cups for 20 years even race mornings. Let's just
> say that the caffeine cleans my pipes so I don't have to stop and
> fertilize in the middle of my run. I would have to stop drinking coffee
> for some numbers of weeks and compare but I don't plan on trying that.
> Maybe your very sensitive to caffeine and it gives you some boost. Then
> again it may wake you up so you sense your run and perceive a boost.
>
> In my opinion two cups will do nothing unless your hypersensitive to
> caffeine. To get any of the alleged lift from caffeine you need about 10
> cups of Startbucks boldest blend or a fistful of Nodoze. USATF has some
> numbers on the how much caffeine you can have in your system and I think
> it's a lot. I could be wrong but caffeine will give some boost to
> sprinters and why the USATF lists it as a no-no, at least in some high
> volume.
>
> > Can coffee be a useful tool for a runner?
>
> Studies show that Caffeine helps one burn fat in long races like ultras
> but you do not a large volume.
>
> In general, if you're looking for a performance boost, training is the
> best method.
>
> -D

Evidence for the ergogenic effects of caffeine on endurance exercise
(1 hour or more) is quite strong. (See the abstract below for a recent
study.) The mechanism behind the ergogenic effect is no longer thought
(not since the early 1990s) to be related to increased fat utilization
and glycogen sparing. It is more likely due to an effect of caffeine
on the central nervous system and/or muscle itself.
________________________________________________________

Caffeinated sports drink: ergogenic effects and possible mechanisms.

Cureton KJ, Warren GL, Millard-Stafford ML, Wingo JE, Trilk J, Buyckx
M.
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):35-55.

This double-blind experiment examined the effects of a caffeinated
sports drink
during prolonged cycling in a warm environment. Sixteen highly trained
cyclists
completed 3 trials: placebo, carbohydrate-electrolyte sports drink
(CES), and
caffeinated sports drink (CES+CAF). Subjects cycled for 135 min,
alternating
between 60% and 75% VO2max every 15 min for the first 120 min,
followed by a
15-min performance ride. Maximal voluntary (MVC) and electrically
evoked
contractile properties of the knee extensors were measured before and
after
cycling. Work completed during the performance ride was 15-23% greater
for
CES+CAF than for the other beverages. Ratings of perceived exertion
were lower
with CES+CAF than with placebo and CES. After cycling, the MVC
strength loss was
two-thirds less for CES+CAF than for the other beverages (5% vs. 15%).
Data from
the interpolated-twitch technique indicated that attenuated strength
loss with
CES+CAF was explained by reduced intrinsic muscle fatigue.

On Jun 19, 6:20 am, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Gibari" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> > before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> > their performance?
>
> I have been doing a few cups for 20 years even race mornings. Let's just
> say that the caffeine cleans my pipes so I don't have to stop and
> fertilize in the middle of my run. I would have to stop drinking coffee
> for some numbers of weeks and compare but I don't plan on trying that.
> Maybe your very sensitive to caffeine and it gives you some boost. Then
> again it may wake you up so you sense your run and perceive a boost.
>
> In my opinion two cups will do nothing unless your hypersensitive to
> caffeine. To get any of the alleged lift from caffeine you need about 10
> cups of Startbucks boldest blend or a fistful of Nodoze. USATF has some
> numbers on the how much caffeine you can have in your system and I think
> it's a lot. I could be wrong but caffeine will give some boost to
> sprinters and why the USATF lists it as a no-no, at least in some high
> volume.
>
> > Can coffee be a useful tool for a runner?
>
> Studies show that Caffeine helps one burn fat in long races like ultras
> but you do not a large volume.
>
> In general, if you're looking for a performance boost, training is the
> best method.
>
> -Doug

Evidence for the ergogenic effect of caffeine on endurance exercise
(~1 hour or more) is quite strong. (See the abstract below for a
recent
study.) The mechanism behind the ergogenic effect is no longer thought
(not since the early 1990s) to be related to increased fat utilization
and glycogen sparing. It is more likely due to an effect of caffeine
on the central nervous system and/or muscle itself. The effective
caffeine
dose ranges from 3 to 9 milligrams per kilogram bodyweight. For a
150-lb person, four cups of coffee works out to 6 mg/kg
________________________________________________________

Caffeinated sports drink: ergogenic effects and possible mechanisms.

Cureton KJ, Warren GL, Millard-Stafford ML, Wingo JE, Trilk J, and
Buyckx M.
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):35-55.

This double-blind experiment examined the effects of a caffeinated
sports drink during prolonged cycling in a warm environment. Sixteen
highly trained cyclists completed 3 trials: placebo, carbohydrate-
electrolyte sports drink (CES), and caffeinated sports drink (CES
+CAF).
Subjects cycled for 135 min, alternating between 60% and 75%
VO2max every 15 min for the first 120 min, followed by a 15-min
performance ride. Maximal voluntary (MVC) and electrically evoked
contractile properties of the knee extensors were measured before
and after cycling. Work completed during the performance ride was
15-23% greater for CES+CAF than for the other beverages. Ratings
of perceived exertion were lower with CES+CAF than with placebo
and CES. After cycling, the MVC strength loss was two-thirds less
for CES+CAF than for the other beverages (5% vs. 15%). Data from
the interpolated-twitch technique indicated that attenuated strength
loss with CES+CAF was explained by reduced intrinsic muscle fatigue.

On Jun 19, 6:20 am, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Gibari" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> > before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> > their performance?
>
> I have been doing a few cups for 20 years even race mornings. Let's just
> say that the caffeine cleans my pipes so I don't have to stop and
> fertilize in the middle of my run. I would have to stop drinking coffee
> for some numbers of weeks and compare but I don't plan on trying that.
> Maybe your very sensitive to caffeine and it gives you some boost. Then
> again it may wake you up so you sense your run and perceive a boost.
>
> In my opinion two cups will do nothing unless your hypersensitive to
> caffeine. To get any of the alleged lift from caffeine you need about 10
> cups of Startbucks boldest blend or a fistful of Nodoze. USATF has some
> numbers on the how much caffeine you can have in your system and I think
> it's a lot. I could be wrong but caffeine will give some boost to
> sprinters and why the USATF lists it as a no-no, at least in some high
> volume.
>
> > Can coffee be a useful tool for a runner?
>
> Studies show that Caffeine helps one burn fat in long races like ultras
> but you do not a large volume.
>
> In general, if you're looking for a performance boost, training is the
> best method.
>
> -Doug

Evidence for the ergogenic effect of caffeine on endurance exercise
(~1 hour or more) is quite strong. (See the abstract below for a
recent study.) The mechanism behind the ergogenic effect is no
longer thought (not since the early 1990s) to be related to
increased fat utilization and glycogen sparing. It is more likely due
to an effect of caffeine on the central nervous system and/or muscle
itself. The effective caffeine dose ranges from 3 to 9 milligrams per
kilogram bodyweight. For a 150-lb person, four cups of coffee works
out to 6 mg/kg.
________________________________________________________

Caffeinated sports drink: ergogenic effects and possible mechanisms.

Cureton KJ, Warren GL, Millard-Stafford ML, Wingo JE, Trilk J, and
Buyckx M.
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):35-55.

This double-blind experiment examined the effects of a caffeinated
sports drink during prolonged cycling in a warm environment. Sixteen
highly trained cyclists completed 3 trials: placebo, carbohydrate-
electrolyte sports drink (CES), and caffeinated sports drink
(CES+CAF). Subjects cycled for 135 min, alternating between 60%
and 75% VO2max every 15 min for the first 120 min, followed by a
15-min performance ride. Maximal voluntary (MVC) and electrically
evoked contractile properties of the knee extensors were measured
before and after cycling. Work completed during the performance ride
was 15-23% greater for CES+CAF than for the other beverages.
Ratings of perceived exertion were lower with CES+CAF than with
placebo and CES. After cycling, the MVC strength loss was
two-thirds less for CES+CAF than for the other beverages (5% vs.
15%). Data from the interpolated-twitch technique indicated that
attenuated strength loss with CES+CAF was explained by reduced
intrinsic muscle fatigue.

Donovan wrote:
> I think there was a time to exhaustion study that showed that
> caffeine improved performance. Test duration was over 1hr.

Right, but - lazy sod that I am, I ain't about to look it up - I'm 98%
certain of having also read that for some reason coffee has little or
none of the performance enhancing effect of the same amount of
caffeine in other (e.g. pill) forms. Anyone else know what this is
about? I may be wrong or misinterpreting...

Last year I once tried 200 or 300 mg, I think it was, in caffeine
pills before an early evening 5k. I didn't run any faster than the
same course two weeks prior, and my guts were unhappy with me after
the race - had to hit an outhouse on my way out of the park. I'm
disinclined to try that again, though I seem to tolerate lesser
amounts (100 mg?) in caffeinated gels OK.

"rick++" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have to find a bush about half way through my run then.
> Definately a diuretic and sometimes a laxative.

And why I have my coffee about a hour before - load balancing at home.
You have to do more that two cups to get a diuretic effect.

-Doug

On Jun 18, 9:31 pm, Gibari <[email protected]> wrote:
> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> their performance? Do any runners feel that it hinders it? Can coffee
> be a useful tool for a runner?

Yes, pouring two very hot cups down your back will increase your
sprinting speed considerably.

On Jun 19, 6:20 am, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been doing a few cups for 20 years even race mornings.

How do you snort hot liquid?

On Jun 19, 9:42 am, rick++ <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have to find a bush about half way through my run then.
>

Somehow Rick, I'm pretty sure you never had any bush in your entire
life.

> Definately a diuretic and sometimes a laxative.

And he wonders why he can't find running partners?

> (Setting myself up for a typical Bill Davidson reply here.)

I'm covering for him while he's on vacatrion.

"Gibari" <[email protected]> wrote

> Can coffee be a useful tool for a runner?

I am not a coffee drinker -- I usually take caffeine tabs (100-150mg worth)
only before races and my long (90 minute +) runs.

I read some studies (Costill?) way back when, and took 150 mg before a
marathon, and got a huge PR.

That pretty well got me hooked on caffeine.

I notice that I really *want* to run fast when I take caffeine.

I also take it only 3-4 times a week, so as not to become habituated. I'll
get monster withdrawal headaches if I become habituated to even 100mg daily.

On Jun 19, 6:20 am, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In general, if you're looking for a performance boost, training is the
> best method.
>
> -Doug

Doug,
Tell them about how it causes ED (erectile dysfunction) in you, and
about your life long battle with it. It doesn't seem fair not to tell
them about that side effect, or maybe you were just born to NOT have
children? Probably just as well...
Your pal on the run,
Dominic

TBR wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>> In general, if you're looking for a performance boost, training
>> is the best method.
>
> Tell them about how it causes ED (erectile dysfunction) in you

It might not for Doug. He runs some tough miles but an overall
moderate volume.

Admittedly when a dude starts running bigger miles it can be somewhat
exhausting, and sometimes it's not just the legs but a whole body
exhaustion, if ya know what I'm saying. But a runner eventually
acclimates... and also, once he starts tapering or better yet taking a
post-marathon break, look out!

On Jun 20, 3:05 pm, Charlie Pendejo <[email protected]> wrote:
> It might not for Doug. He runs some tough miles but an overall
> moderate volume.
>

I believe he was a "softie" since his high school years, long before
he started running.

> Admittedly when a dude starts running bigger miles it can be somewhat
> exhausting, and sometimes it's not just the legs but a whole body
> exhaustion, if ya know what I'm saying.

Doug can't get it up, and has (mercifully so) no kids. It's the gene
pools way of filtering out potential trailer trash.

>But a runner eventually
> acclimates... and also, once he starts tapering or better yet taking a
> post-marathon break, look out!

But he says he's still soft even after a two year LAY-OFF (pun
intended)

On Jun 18, 9:31 pm, Gibari <[email protected]> wrote:
> Do any runners feel that two strong cups of coffee about 45 minutes
> before a run enhances performance, or at least their perception of
> their performance? Do any runners feel that it hinders it? Can coffee
> be a useful tool for a runner?

Caffine according to a study I found at IUP enhances the body
performance for only a short period of time. I do not like coffee or
caffine on a race day because 1. I feel a little dehydrated after
drinking it and 2. I'm sensitive to heat so i try not to race my Body
Temperature as much as possible. Although I do recall Runner's World
stating that coffee in the morning (1 cup) can improve an afternoon
run and helps with better health.