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BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon' - Page 21

post #301 of 311
2/1/07 at 1:08pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by meandmybike
I recall Sean Kelly telling the tale of Hinault lashing out at photographers who crowded him after crossing the finish line of a Tour time trial. Hinault had beaten Kelly and everyone else by a convincing margin. Recalling the ferocity of Hinault's attack on the photographers Kelly said, 'If a small girl had pointed a gun at me when I crossed the line I wouldn't have had the energy to fight her off.'
And Hinaults injuries were the injuries associated with doping. I have a hard time believing that Hinault could beat Knetemann and the Ti-Raleigh boys who were poster boys of doping at the time as convincing as he did.
But Hinault was a great rider anyway you look at it.......
Hinault is probably feeling the pressure to speak out. He does represent the TDF . He defended LA and took flack from the French journalists ....
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post #302 of 311
2/1/07 at 1:14pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfix
And Hinaults injuries were the injuries associated with doping. I have a hard time believing that Hinault could beat Knetemann and the Ti-Raleigh boys who were poster boys of doping at the time as convincing as he did.
But Hinault was a great rider anyway you look at it.......
Hinault is probably feeling the pressure to speak out. He does represent the TDF . He defended LA and took flack from the French journalists ....
I don't care if Hinault is a hypocrite or not. He is in a position to influence the future of the sport (or at least its biggest race) and if he chooses to apply a positive (i.e. anti-doping) influence then more power to him.
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post #303 of 311
2/1/07 at 1:51pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolfrae
I don't care if Hinault is a hypocrite or not. He is in a position to influence the future of the sport (or at least its biggest race) and if he chooses to apply a positive (i.e. anti-doping) influence then more power to him.
Finger wagging doesn't really get the job done. All the guys from the era who act like they were clean when in fact we know the peloton was ripe with anabolic steroid use should close their months or own up to the reality. Sure, guys today are doing way more drugs to compete, but Hinault, Lemond, Kelly, Delgado... Those guys were pioneers. That was likely the first generation that started injecting drugs, and for sure the first to start the aas ball rolling.

Does anyone think Roche wasn't doped? He might have been the first guy to resort to blood doping. A world championship, the tour and Giro in one year? That's a career, not a year. And if you look at his career, before that point, he had never done anything like that. Not even close.

Back then the sport wasn't as dirty. That's about all you can say.
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post #304 of 311
2/1/07 at 2:07pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by helmutRoole2
Finger wagging doesn't really get the job done. All the guys from the era who act like they were clean when in fact we know the peloton was ripe with anabolic steroid use should close their months or own up to the reality. Sure, guys today are doing way more drugs to compete, but Hinault, Lemond, Kelly, Delgado... Those guys were pioneers. That was likely the first generation that started injecting drugs, and for sure the first to start the aas ball rolling.

Does anyone think Roche wasn't doped? He might have been the first guy to resort to blood doping. A world championship, the tour and Giro in one year? That's a career, not a year. And if you look at his career, before that point, he had never done anything like that. Not even close.

Back then the sport wasn't as dirty. That's about all you can say.
But what does it matter if Hinault was on steroids, crystal meth or Custard Creams or anything else? I know he is being hypocritical to some extent but his opinion is still valid - it takes a thief to catch a thief. Most of the people involved in cycling management are ex-cyclists. Therefore most of them will have "doped" to some level. If we say that anyone who has doped is not allowed an opinion, or an attempt to clean up the sport then who are we left with? Our sport is in such a **** state because doping is ingrained, it's institutionalised, ex-cyclists run teams and perpetuate the practises using the latest, modern methods. Riders justify their own doping by believing that all their predecessors doped, that it is part and parcel of the job. Anyone who has even the slightest interest in seeing a break in this doping cycle and cleaning up the sport should support Hinault's stance.
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post #305 of 311
2/1/07 at 9:26pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Ivan Basso is on the start list for Tour of California - less than three weeks from now!
I am looking forward to the ToC. I saw some of Healthnet team up in the El Dorado Hills again this year.

I got a nice view of Mt. Diablo again from the Bass Lake grade. Wonderful sight, I never bring my camera.

lw
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post #306 of 311
2/1/07 at 10:40pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolfrae
But what does it matter if Hinault was on steroids, crystal meth or Custard Creams or anything else? I know he is being hypocritical to some extent but his opinion is still valid - it takes a thief to catch a thief. Most of the people involved in cycling management are ex-cyclists. Therefore most of them will have "doped" to some level. If we say that anyone who has doped is not allowed an opinion, or an attempt to clean up the sport then who are we left with? Our sport is in such a **** state because doping is ingrained, it's institutionalised, ex-cyclists run teams and perpetuate the practises using the latest, modern methods. Riders justify their own doping by believing that all their predecessors doped, that it is part and parcel of the job. Anyone who has even the slightest interest in seeing a break in this doping cycle and cleaning up the sport should support Hinault's stance.
Yeah, true. But finger pointing doesn't cut it. At least not for me. Of course Hinault is entitled to his opinion however hypocritical it is. But former dopers can be effective spokespersons for anti-doping without pointing fingers. I can only imagine the backlash on this forum if Armstrong were to start pointing fingers at dopers in the current pro peleton. But since it's Hinault and he's not American it's okay. What Hinault is doing is so incredibly hypocritical that it's ridiculous. It's like Ronald McDonald calling Bozo a clown.

I agree with Helmut. These guys have been taking anything and everything they can get their hands on to improve their performance since competetive cycling began. It's just that today there's more PED's available. I respect what Hinault accomplished in the sport. But for him to stand on the sidelines after he has enjoyed success in the sport and sling shyte at riders who aren't doing anything he didn't do himself is absolutely sickening. In my opinion at least.
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post #307 of 311
2/1/07 at 11:03pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Shaming a drug cheat for lying is all that can be done effectively.


*WADA has no authority, money or commercial support.
*UCI is wholly corrupt and remote controlled by sponsorship endorsement fees
*All the sporting federations lust for endorsement fees from the sponsors too, hence they will NEVER act against dopers--and their sponsors.
* The IOC is corrupted by its endorsement fee renewals

The riders MUST dope or they are sacked.
The drug busted riders MUST deny or they too will be suspended, then sacked.

Whistleblowers are blackballed forever. (Disenfranchised)

Media talking heads such as Duffield, Ligget, Roll, Sherwin must lie and cover up the doping with myths and counter stories else they will be sacked by the advertisers.

USADA won't suspend many American heroes UNLESS forced to by politcial circumstances. (Marion Jones, Floyd Landis, Lance Armstrong)

Finger pointing, mocking the silly lies, laughing at the empty denials, ridiculing the Power Point presentations, buying birth control pills and Jack Daniels as TUE explanations is the SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE action step to drug cheating.

Drug cheating and empty denial are the only elite SPORTS anymore!
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post #308 of 311
2/1/07 at 11:31pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer's.Finale!
Shaming a drug cheat for lying is all that can be done effectively.


*WADA has no authority, money or commercial support.
*UCI is wholly corrupt and remote controlled by sponsorship endorsement fees
*All the sporting federations lust for endorsement fees from the sponsors too, hence they will NEVER act against dopers--and their sponsors.
* The IOC is corrupted by its endorsement fee renewals

The riders MUST dope or they are sacked.
The drug busted riders MUST deny or they too will be suspended, then sacked.

Whistleblowers are blackballed forever. (Disenfranchised)

Media talking heads such as Duffield, Ligget, Roll, Sherwin must lie and cover up the doping with myths and counter stories else they will be sacked by the advertisers.

USADA won't suspend many American heroes UNLESS forced to by politcial circumstances. (Marion Jones, Floyd Landis, Lance Armstrong)

Finger pointing, mocking the silly lies, laughing at the empty denials, ridiculing the Power Point presentations, buying birth control pills and Jack Daniels as TUE explanations is the SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE action step to drug cheating.

Drug cheating and empty denial are the only elite SPORTS anymore!
And what does this have to do with cycling?
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post #309 of 311
2/1/07 at 11:53pm

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Magoo can read---why can't wolfie?

see post 306 by meehs.

Doping, denial, apology, angst and media marketing are what commercial cycling represent.

Corinthian cycling is NOT about Grand Tours or doping.

I suggest you find the Corinthian threads.

Or puncture.
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post #310 of 311
2/2/07 at 10:03am

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwedge
I am looking forward to the ToC. I saw some of Healthnet team up in the El Dorado Hills again this year.

I got a nice view of Mt. Diablo again from the Bass Lake grade. Wonderful sight, I never bring my camera.

lw
ToC is going to be badass. I really like the idea of the N. American teams peaking for that event, especially since it comes so early in the season. Those guys on HealthNet, Toyota United, Slipstream... they have to ride a full season, starting in Feb., and in peak condition. And, they have to carry it through the entire year. The NRC isn't easy either. I last did an NRC crit two years back and it was a low key one and people, it was all I could do to finish in the group. I'll probably never do another.
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post #311 of 311
5/1/07 at 7:38am

Re: BAsso to sign for Disco 'this afternoon'

Quote:
Originally Posted by musette
This is, of course, perfectly working out for DC.

There's now even the necessary Graham Watson favorable commentary.
Not so fast......
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