Wanted: BB cup jam nuts (Attn: LBS retail sales)



J

!Jones

Guest
Hello;

I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.

Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
(LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.

Jones
 
On Oct 2, 7:06 am, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
> There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
> cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
> however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.
>
> Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
> parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
> (LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.
>
> Jones


Well, on the left side, you could just use a regular lockring. Don't
know of any reverse-threaded ones, though.

Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!
 
On Oct 2, 8:06 am, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
> There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
> cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
> however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.
>
> Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
> parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
> (LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.
>
> Jones


Think you are talking about BB lockrings like found on adjustable cup
BBs but the Phils I have installed have the cups all the way into the
BB shell, with little/no threads showing so you wouldn't be able to
screw on a lockring anywho-
 
On Oct 2, 12:33 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Think you are talking about BB lockrings like found on adjustable cup
> BBs but the Phils I have installed have the cups all the way into the
> BB shell, with little/no threads showing so you wouldn't be able to
> screw on a lockring anywho-


Yup. If you glue the cups in with locktight, as one should, then
they're probably just cosmetic. My instalation caught enough thread
to hold 'em OK, but I have a fair amount of thread sticking out. The
bike is an antique and I mainly want it to look finished. I spoze I
can get on the lathe and make a set; however, if my time is worth
anything, it's generally easier simply to buy 'em. I have a Paramount
tandem with Phil BBs and it has lock rings... the Phil people acted
like they didn't know what I was talking about, though.

Jones
 
!Jones wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I'm using a Phil BB and cups in a build. (1.375 X 24, English).
> There exist some "jam nuts" that screw onto the exposed thread of the
> cup; they're probably cosmetic because Phil doesn't have them;
> however, they do give the final assembly a nice, finished look.
>
> Any of you LBS types have these? I have a shopping list of other
> parts that I'm pretty sure you do have; I'd just like to find a pair
> (LH/RH) of the jam nuts and order all of it at once.
>
> Jones
>


Is this what you're looking for:
"http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&ID=2294"?
or is it the wrong threading?
 
On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
> because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!


If you say so, then it must be right.

OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
over.

I have heard that argument before, but I don't see any clear reason to
say one or the other is better. The reverse threading on the Limey
BBs seems to make some sense, I guess... a little... maybe. OTOH, I
have seen RH cups forced into the left side or visa versa, a faux pas
that will seriously ruin the aspiring mechanic's day!

While we're here, let's discuss crank pullers! There's just enough
difference in them to strip a crank. I heard that the bike shops did
that so they could sell more cranks... it's a damn conspiracy, I
say!!!

Jones
 
On Oct 2, 12:36 pm, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
> > because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

>
> If you say so, then it must be right.
>
> OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
> I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
> don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
> a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
> cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
> LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
> over.


Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
actually feels that way.

See http://tinyurl.com/yoqjz9
 
On Oct 2, 3:11 pm, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 12:36 pm, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:


> Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
> threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
> somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
> actually feels that way.


Oh, well... some people have strong feelings. Don't get me started
about my Bendix red-band "kick down" hubs. (When bicyclists were
*real* men... )

I don't think I got the size right on the Wop thread, anyway.
Something is bothering me about that major diameter... but I didn't
tell anyone to *do* anything!!!

Jones
 
On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
> because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!


I guess y'all are right... but I know that I have an old Phil BB with
two rings. Maybe someone added 'em later???

That's OK. I'll chuck up a piece of T6 and turn a set. They don't
actually *do* anything 'cept look cool. I'll get 'em black anodized
and they'll be slicker 'n boogers on a brass doorknob!

Jones
 
> Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
>> because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!


!Jones wrote:
> I guess y'all are right... but I know that I have an old Phil BB with
> two rings. Maybe someone added 'em later???
> That's OK. I'll chuck up a piece of T6 and turn a set. They don't
> actually *do* anything 'cept look cool. I'll get 'em black anodized
> and they'll be slicker 'n boogers on a brass doorknob!


Maybe. Or your tandem BB is actually a Kajita or Suntour by Kajita which
was a common tandem piece in the 1980s and does have RH+LH lockrings.

Besides all that, Peter's right, Forza Italia!

http://www.italy-news.net/articoli/eng/articolo_06.php3
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Oct 2, 1:01 pm, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 12:33 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Think you are talking about BB lockrings like found on adjustable cup
> > BBs but the Phils I have installed have the cups all the way into the
> > BB shell, with little/no threads showing so you wouldn't be able to
> > screw on a lockring anywho-

>
> Yup. If you glue the cups in with locktight, as one should, then
> they're probably just cosmetic. My instalation caught enough thread
> to hold 'em OK, but I have a fair amount of thread sticking out. The
> bike is an antique and I mainly want it to look finished. I spoze I
> can get on the lathe and make a set; however, if my time is worth
> anything, it's generally easier simply to buy 'em. I have a Paramount
> tandem with Phil BBs and it has lock rings... the Phil people acted
> like they didn't know what I was talking about, though.
>
> Jones


I think you are going to have a tough time finding a lockring for the
right side, since it is left threaded(if english)..the right side is
easy..any english adjustable cup lockring.

Plus, I have never used loctite for Phil cups..just grease and 2
tools.
 
On Oct 2, 6:04 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

> Maybe. Or your tandem BB is actually a Kajita or Suntour by Kajita which
> was a common tandem piece in the 1980s and does have RH+LH lockrings.


Naa, the BBs are Phil; I'm sure of that. Maybe someone just added the
lockrings?

I'm over it!

Jones
 
On Oct 2, 6:13 pm, "James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "!Jones" <[email protected]> a écrit:
>
> And the pitch. It's 36mm x 24tpi, my Kraut Mick friend.


Yeah, I thought 30mm wasn't right. Are you sure it's not a 1mm
thread? I mean, 1/24" is fairly close to a mimaleeter, as I recall...
hey! I don't have one (Praise the Lord!!!), so it isn't exactly the
burning issue of my life, but why would an otherwise perfectly
competent people (who gave the world pasta) call out a major in metric
then go to inches for the thread count? Why, I'd sooner mix my
metaphors than my units of distance.

Jones
 
On Oct 3, 7:29 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Plus, I have never used loctite for Phil cups..just grease and 2
> tools.


I usually read the directions, but only after I have screwed it up
twice... Phil's say to use the the locktite; they even provide a
little tube of "Phil approved" glue. I wonder if you can "sniff" it
if I don't need it for the cups?

Jones... who once, as a kid, tried to sniff Elmer's glue. (heard it
was "kicks", but I got it all over me face!)
 
On Oct 2, 2:11 pm, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 12:36 pm, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
> > > because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!

>
> > If you say so, then it must be right.

>
> > OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
> > I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
> > don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
> > a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
> > cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
> > LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
> > over.

>
> Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
> threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
> somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
> actually feels that way.
>
> Seehttp://tinyurl.com/yoqjz9


Of COURSE I feel that way..Italiano is a far superior threading
system....


tick, tick, tick...
 
"!Jones" <[email protected]> a écrit:

> Are you sure it's not a 1mm thread?


Yes. Italian bicycle threads often mix metric diameters with imperial pitch,
e.g. 35mm x 24tpi for Italian freewheels, 10mm x 26tpi and 9mm x 26tpi for
Campagnolo axles.

> it isn't exactly the burning issue of my life, but why would an
> otherwise perfectly competent people (who gave the world
> pasta) call out a major in metric then go to inches for the
> thread count?


I've read that there was a time when the Italians bought their lathes from
the British.

James Thomson
 
> On Oct 2, 6:13 pm, "James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "!Jones" <[email protected]> a écrit:
>> And the pitch. It's 36mm x 24tpi, my Kraut Mick friend.


!Jones wrote:
> Yeah, I thought 30mm wasn't right. Are you sure it's not a 1mm
> thread? I mean, 1/24" is fairly close to a mimaleeter, as I recall...
> hey! I don't have one (Praise the Lord!!!), so it isn't exactly the
> burning issue of my life, but why would an otherwise perfectly
> competent people (who gave the world pasta) call out a major in metric
> then go to inches for the thread count? Why, I'd sooner mix my
> metaphors than my units of distance.


Italian BB threads are 36mm x 24 tpi, 55 degree WW form.
After England invented industrialization, the Italians were right
behind, adopting metric diameters with Imperial pitch. Italian freewheel
thread is 35mm x 24tpi, also 55 degree WW form, headsets 25.4mm x 24tpi,
etc.
visual aids dep't:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/FWTHREAD.JPG

Swiss thread is perfectly logical. Which is why no one builds with it.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
>> On Oct 2, 12:36 pm, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 2, 10:56 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Once again, Peter Chisholm is right - Italian threading is far better,
>>>> because in this case, you could use two regular lockrings!
>>> If you say so, then it must be right.
>>> OTOH, the Wop threads have a 30 mm X 1 pitch, which isn't exactly what
>>> I'd call "regular". A 1 3/16 X 24 lock ring will screw on if you
>>> don't need a lot of torque; it'll be sloppy, though. (Yeah, I'll pick
>>> a box of those up at my local hardware store, I will!) If I end up
>>> cutting them, then it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. For
>>> LH thread, you just reverse the spindle and turn the threading tool
>>> over.


> Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sorry, that's something of a running gag...Peter will say that Italian
>> threads are the best because they're Italian, and Sheldon or Jobst or
>> somebody else will jump all over him for it. I'm not sure that he
>> actually feels that way.
>> Seehttp://tinyurl.com/yoqjz9


Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
> Of COURSE I feel that way..Italiano is a far superior threading
> system....
> tick, tick, tick...


Sure! Italian thread form has, uh, historical significance? Romance?

Since our industry's thread forms are all archaic and pointless, may as
well be Genuine Italian as any other. Note the cold purposeful logic of
Swiss thread format. Abandoned by our industry of course.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:21:19 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech SMS
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Is this what you're looking for:
>"http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&ID=2294"?
>or is it the wrong threading?


Yeah, that's half of what I had in mind. The other half had a left
thread... but, I'm convinced that it doesn't exist in our normal frame
of reference; therefore, I have cut a pair out of T6. All they do for
me is to hide the exposed threads, so... whatever that damn 'A' word
is, it works for me. "All-you-min-ee-yum" or something like that.

Maybe I'll make it outta magnesium next time. The main issue with
that stuff is that it burns easily and fiercely in a crash... and I'd
*hate* to go out in a blaze of glory!

Jones
 

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